BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 295

[JtheDreamer]

But, what about the comics that explore those themes? (Even comics containing these characters have done that).

Are we just to ignore them?

IMO, We shouldn't restrict comic book movies to just pure escapism (people tend to look down on the genre itself, perhaps for that reason. They don't think of comic books as something that can present complex themes; rather they think it's written mainly for kids).

I never said a word about kids. My comments were about me personally. There is an exception to the rule i.e. The Watchmen - which I like a lot.

But based on what I see out of the GA, an overwhelming majority don't go to these CBM's looking for complex themes. Just the nature of the beast when you're mass marketing across all age demographics to justify the bloated budgets.

 

[DCmania]

Even so, what is or is not an "escape" is subjective. And I also disagree with your point that it needs to be "your specific type of escape" just because its a CBM.

everything is subjective, true objectivity does not exist(except in science and even then it can be unclear sometimes) and what we consider objective is only subjectivity in numbers. For example, if enough people thought that the earth was flat that would eventually be the objective norm in perception(as it once was). In this particular case his opinion is shared by many people and is pretty much the norm at this point. You are however entitled to your opinion as is he.

 

[C. Lee]

Its mostly about a dozen posters who are posting non-stop negative comments, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them average well over 100 negative posts a day constantly bagging on the movie and insulting the intelligence of those who did like it.

If you would take the time to step away from your complaining for a minute and actually read some of the warnings I have posted over and over and over in here....I have repeatedly told EVERYONE to stop the complaining about what other posters are saying. It does nothing to progress a constructive conversation and only leads to more fighting name calling and general bad attitudes.

So stop complaining that others are complaining...is that clear enough for you?

From what I have seen, most of the people who are being positive have been way more civil than the negative posters.

Then you are not seeing too good....I suggest the AMAZING NON-BIASED 21ST CENTURY GLASSES.....I have them, they work great....I see offensive mean rude posts for what they are....and those posts come from everyone. The people who don't like the movie say that all the rude talk comes from the people who like it....the people who like the movie say that all the rude talk comes from the people who don't like it. Well guess what....I see people from both sides doing it.

The negative posters tend to state thing in more of a matter of fact kind of way: "This movie is garbage" "If you like this movie you need to get your eyes checked" "You lack intelligence and good taste if you like this mess."

And have you reported those? Please find them and show me, because I would love to infract the person who said that. I have deleted many posts and I have infracted many posters for saying rude things.....but obviously there must be posts I have missed, so please show them to me so that I can take care of them.

Whereas imo, the positive posters usually state their personal opinion, and are being far more humble and diplomatic: "Well, despite the criticism, I enjoyed it" " I thought it was a good movie, I don't get all the criticism."

I don't want to insult the people who like the movie, so please understand I am talking about some of that group.....my response to the quoted part above is - make me laugh.

And as the mod above has already stated, the detractors are much more active in reporting those who like the movie, they are being a lot more aggressive in expressing their discontent and reporting almost everything to mods.

They are reporting the insults and offensive things that the people who like the movie are saying to them (even though you say they would never do such a thing).....less of the people who like the movie are reporting insults, instead they repeatedly complain only on the forums that they are being insulted instead of reporting the actual insults.

They are allowed to call Snyder a hack, and wish ill things to happen to him, they are allowed to bash the dark tone of the movie.

Right....they are ALLOWED to call him a hack....they are ALLOWED to complain about the dark tone. This is a message board for the discussion of comic book movies. Discussion includes the good and the bad things about the movies. The title of our site is THE SUPERHEROHYPE....it isn't THE YOU CAN ONLY PRAISE THE MOVIES HYPE.

But if someone comes back and states they like the dark tone and compares it to Marvels tone, then those posts are deleted.

Not every one of those posts are deleted. The ones that say they like the dark tone and then call the Marvel movies "childish" "unintelligent" "made for kiddies" and the like (in other words being rude and insulting the people who like the Marvel tone)...these are the posts deleted.

From what I have seen, the one thing that will get your post deleted faster than anything on the BvS forum is to criticize the lighter tone of Marvel films.

As I just said above.....saying you don't like the Marvel lighter tone gets nothing deleted....adding in a post like that the insults about the people who like the lighter tone will get your post deleted and maybe an infraction.


Is it that hard to understand....discuss....debate....argue the movie all you want....BUT DO NOT INSULT OTHERS, DO NOT BE RUDE, DO NOT CALL OTHERS NAMES......

 

[flickchick85]

Hi flickchick, So someone posting that Snyder is a hack and needs firing 500 times is okay? Someone arguing quite aggressively that this Superman is not their Superman 500 times is okay? A mod on this site taking the piss out of Snyder and the film with a fellow member here quite gleefully is fine?

Sorry, I could go on, but as I said above, in the real world, people would not put up with, or let this behavior go on.

Most of the decent positive posters don't go around angrilly and actively reporting the negative basher hater types, they put far more energy into that than the positive fans/members.

Maybe I'm just not suited to witnessing mean and nasty behaviour that upsets others without saying something about it.

Thanks for explaining where you and the site stand flickchick, you can't really win to be honest as things stand. You say there is no loophole but there is t: I appreciate you replying as you have as you could have just shut this discussion down.

As I said above somewhere, I'm going to ignore and not sweat the small stuff, and hopefully these kind of public (slightly embarrassing) discussions will help the site. Most of us come here with good intentions and love the site and the community, so hopefully mods and members can be a bit more 'balanced' than of late.

If it takes an idiot like me to maybe highlight a few things that need looking at then I'll take the jibes and the ridicule.

So, where's my passport...

In your bolding, you left out a key part of my post - the part where I said that it's ok as long as it doesn't interrupt the flow of discussion. If someone were to ACTUALLY post "Snyder's a hack and needs to be sacked" 500 times a day without adding anything to their post, then yes, that would absolutely be trollish behavior. But that's not what's happening. At least, it's not what I'm seeing here (and if you see it, report it!). I'm seeing people reacting to box office developments and responding to posts and engaging in debates, and yes, certain negative sentiments naturally get re-iterated when that happens, but that's ok. It's part of the nature of discussion.

Also, keep in mind, this place ISN'T like the real world. At all. Unless there's a place you specifically go to in the real world that is JUST for discussing a movie (and if you have a place like that, consider me envious!). This is a message board subsection ENTIRELY devoted to this film, so the yeah, if someone goes on and on about their feelings on BvS in the real world, sure, someone would shut them down. No one in the real world wants to hear that **** over and over whether it's positive or negative. But that's kinda the point of this section - where people can enter and exit the conversation at their own convenience, and the only constant is that the discussion will always be about BvS. So yeah, opinions are gonna get repetitive. It just comes with the territory.

 

[C. Lee]

We are all as bad as each other in our own ways for sure, but the bolded part is where the loophole is. A negative hater type can repeat their gripes 500 times, and as long as they are relatively civil and don't swear etc, then they can keep on doing so, and yet they are upsetting other members because of the repeat negativeness.

Also the clever baiters and troll types also don't cross the line, keep relatively civil and therefore can continue on their merry way even if they are upsetting lots of people.

It is the internet forum/boards LOOPHOLE that causes the problem.

See, if we were all in a room together for a week, after a person/member said something for the 500th time, someone would say right, enough is enough, stop that now. (I'm being family friendly with the response hah) But that can't happen here, so the loophole is exploited endlessly, and the vocal few or troll types get away with ruining the majority fun because of this.

In real life, people don't get away with saying 'I have the right to keep causing you lot trouble' if I want.

Anyway, I'm going on holiday for a few weeks, so peace guys n gals I'm sure I'll be missed...( I heard the cheer all the way from England! haha)

Loophole. Sounds like the amazing new Looper sequel, directed by visionary director Zachary Snyd...Yeh, I'll stop

It would make things a lot easier if I just banned everyone for a month and got to take a nice peaceful vacation.

 

[Greeneyes]

It's within the realm of possibility. I'm interested in it only to see what character moments didn't make it into the film. My biggest complaint about BvS, and MoS as well, is that the movie ended and I didn't feel anything for any character. I'm not sure why I'm supposed to like them or want them to succeed. Snyder has a way of painting a really pretty picture, but he can't make me care. I'll give the ultimate cut a shot to see if it can endear me towards Superman because at the moment he's the character I think they've screwed up the most by a longshot.

You are probably fed up with reading people like me saying that Superman will become more like we all know as the DC Universe unfolds and that we have to let his story be told. I know that people have very valid reasons to dislike what they have seen so far, I get that, and telling someone to be patient you'll get what you want down the line and it will be all the more rewarding and emotional for that is I'm sure annoying to hear.

But all I can say is, be patient, haha, this was chapter two, Snyder and WB have now seen what fans don't like, so will adjust slightly the JL, well that is what everyone thinks right? slightly lighter, so it will be a lighter character in future films.

I really hope this Universe is given a chance because it could be amazing.

 

[Flint Marko]

You are probably fed up with reading people like me saying that Superman will become more like we all know as the DC Universe unfolds and that we have to let his story be told. I know that people have very valid reasons to dislike what they have seen so far, I get that, and telling someone to be patient you'll get what you want down the line and it will be all the more rewarding and emotional for that is I'm sure annoying to hear.

But all I can say is, be patient, haha, this was chapter two, Snyder and WB have now seen what fans don't like, so will adjust slightly the JL, well that is what everyone thinks right? slightly lighter, so it will be a lighter character in future films.

I really hope this Universe is given a chance because it could be amazing.

I agree that it could be amazing but I've gotten my hopes up twice now and was let down. I'm excited for suicide squad and WW but I can't say I'm as confident in them as I once was.
In regards to your explanation of Superman, I guess thats just not an approach I think works when you're two movies in and then decide to

Spoiler

kill him off. The death means nothing because I don't care about Superman. In the months leading up to the release and the rumors were flying about, Supermans death was mentioned more than once. Each time I said that it'd be a huge mistake and I feel I was right.

 

[Cats]

I laifhed so hard the other night when a poster in this topic said they should have done a solo affleck batman movie before bvs.

If they had done a affleck batman before bvs these boards would have been so full of rage the font color would have turned red.

Actually if they showed the reasons for which Batman went into the depressive state that he's in now, there might be more sympathy for him in terms of his killing in BvS. Believe it or not, but there're people still asking me why this Batman is so old. GA is a bit slow to catch up on stuff, unfortunately. If they'd gone in chronological order, GA would definitely appreciate it more. However having done it backwards, I personally feel this way creates more mystery and intrigue. You always have questions in your mind, like why is the Wayne Manor all burned down? What happened to Robin? Why does Bruce say the things he does? And to have that all answered would be infinitely satisfying, compared to if you knew all the answers already.

 

[TripleJ]

Here's the problem - you can't treat this like a weekly TV series or a monthly comic. Films can only be released once a year at best. With TV or comics you can play that long development game because you've essentially got a new chapter coming every week, or every couple of weeks. You can't expect to develop characters at that same pace in film, you're asking too much of the audience to wait 4 or 5 years before you finally present to them the character they've always wanted.

Like it or not, people want a conclusive story within that 2-2.5 hour time frame, and they want the character to have a full arc by the end of that time. You're asking a lot of the audience to stay the course of several years before the characters arc is reached. You can't treat the character arc in a film like you can in the comics over several issues. Film doesn't favour that type of story telling.

I don't think it's fair to just close everything out like that. Sure, films were like that. But, things are changing all around.

More films are becoming episodic, and audiences are getting used to that (just like audiences are expecting end credits these days - they understand that it's teases for future movies).

TV shows are also changing. Netflix introduced the whole thing with binge watching...and look where we are now.

(Of course, that's more of an instant gratification than waiting week after week).

Regardless, I think filmmakers can encourage audiences to be more patient, and change how they view these films (or films in general).

After all, things have changed over the decades.

 

[-Arya-]

I can't help but think that they will promise us a lighter film with a fully developed Superman and then Snyder will proceed to add in **** he thinks looks cool, which completely undermines what the original purpose was.

Any and all news I hear about JL from Snyder's mouth will be met with total doubt and pessimism. I don't think anyone will trust him from this point forward.

 

[C. Lee]

Hi flickchick, So someone posting that Snyder is a hack and needs firing 500 times is okay? Someone arguing quite aggressively that this Superman is not their Superman 500 times is okay?

I actually find it hard to believe that any poster is posting such a thing 500 times a day. They may post it a lot (and so it ticks you off)...but saying they are doing it 500 times a day I feel is over exagerating.

A mod on this site taking the piss out of Snyder and the film with a fellow member here quite gleefully is fine?

Is he still a mod?

Sorry, I could go on, but as I said above, in the real world, people would not put up with, or let this behavior go on.

The list of things that would not be getting by in the real world is a million miles long. We do what we can.

Most of the decent positive posters don't go around angrilly and actively reporting the negative basher hater types, they put far more energy into that than the positive fans/members.

Yeah....the majority of positive people don't report problems, they just complain about them on the open site and say the mods are doing nothing about it.

Maybe I'm just not suited to witnessing mean and nasty behaviour that upsets others without saying something about it.

But saying it here does not get it taken care of as fast as it should be. Some one can say something offensive in here and 10 minutes later it is 10 pages back. then eventually someone says something about it and we have to go looking through pages of posts to find it. If you officially report it...it takes us directly to the post.

 

[Greeneyes]

In your bolding, you left out a key part of my post - the part where I said that it's ok as long as it doesn't interrupt the flow of discussion. If someone were to ACTUALLY post "Snyder's a hack and needs to be sacked" 500 times a day without adding anything to their post, then yes, that would absolutely be trollish behavior. But that's not what's happening. At least, it's not what I'm seeing here (and if you see it, report it!). I'm seeing people reacting to box office developments and responding to posts and engaging in debates, and yes, certain negative sentiments naturally get re-iterated when that happens, but that's ok. It's part of the nature of discussion.

Also, keep in mind, this place ISN'T like the real world. At all. Unless there's a place you specifically go to in the real world that is JUST for discussing a movie (and if you have a place like that, consider me envious!). This is a message board subsection ENTIRELY devoted to this film, so the yeah, if someone goes on and on about their feelings on BvS in the real world, sure, someone would shut them down. No one in the real world wants to hear that **** over and over whether it's positive or negative. But that's kinda the point of this section - where people can enter and exit the conversation at their own convenience, and the only constant is that the discussion will always be about BvS. So yeah, opinions are gonna get repetitive. It just comes with the territory.

You are right flickchick, I need to remember that this isn't the real world with real world rules. Thanks for replying so calmly, I couldn't do your job that's for sure. I think I'm just blowing off steam myself too.

You must admit that you get fed up with some of the negativity though? Positive is so much nicer than negative after all

 

[DCmania]

You are probably fed up with reading people like me saying that Superman will become more like we all know as the DC Universe unfolds and that we have to let his story be told. I know that people have very valid reasons to dislike what they have seen so far, I get that, and telling someone to be patient you'll get what you want down the line and it will be all the more rewarding and emotional for that is I'm sure annoying to hear.

But all I can say is, be patient, haha, this was chapter two, Snyder and WB have now seen what fans don't like, so will adjust slightly the JL, well that is what everyone thinks right? slightly lighter, so it will be a lighter character in future films.

I really hope this Universe is given a chance because it could be amazing.

I like your optimism, something tells me you know something we don't. Do you perhaps work on those films? If it's just sheer optimism and loyalty I hope you're right. I'm still excited to see what the DCEU has in store for us, it's just that I wished it was better.

 

[flickchick85]

You are right flickchick, I need to remember that this isn't the real world with real world rules. Thanks for replying so calmly, I couldn't do your job that's for sure. I think I'm just blowing off steam myself too.

You must admit that you get fed up with some of the negativity though? Positive is so much nicer than negative after all

No problem.

And I'll certainly admit things would have been much easier for us if BvS had been met with universal jubilation and praise, lol.

 

[Visualiza]

Hi flickchick, So someone posting that Snyder is a hack and needs firing 500 times is okay? Someone arguing quite aggressively that this Superman is not their Superman 500 times is okay? A mod on this site taking the piss out of Snyder and the film with a fellow member here quite gleefully is fine?

Yes, all of that is just fine. None of that crosses the barrier into personal attacks on other forum members. I think the issue is that fandom has both a persecution complex and a sense of entitlement when it comes to their favorite characters and movies. An impassioned (or innocuous; I've seen them lash out at others for the most harmless of criticisms) critique often receives toxic responses from some of the more defensive types. Fans really need to stop making criticisms of these movies (or even the crew) out to be some sort of personal affront. If I had to guess, I'd say that's likely the reason why you see more reports of the so-called positive crowd, because they tend to get really aggressive when people voice their displeasure with this movie. And my pointing this out isn't to say that those of us who have been critical of this movie have never gotten out of line, but the ratio isn't quite as lopsided as you're letting on. For as many times as I've seen proclamations of people being "haters", "Marvel fans/shills", or flat out too dumb to understand BvS, it simply can't be.

There's nothing wrong with being critical of a movie you didn't enjoy. It's fundamentally no different from gushing over something, just on the opposite side of the spectrum.

 

[Greeneyes]

It would make things a lot easier if I just banned everyone for a month and got to take a nice peaceful vacation.

That is a brilliant idea! Shut down the site for a month, we all have holidays and then can come back all refreshed and calm just in time for Civil War to explode.

 

[Flint Marko]

Said this before and I'll say it again: been here ten years and I've never seen the hype like this. Props to the mods for keeping the place in check.

 

[Verick808]

Honestly, I'm surprised Snyder was allowed to release such a depressing film. I thought WB wanted get their hands into that 20 billion dollar year toy industry. While I appreciated the films take on Batman what kid would actually like this guy? And Superman. I disagree with all the people who believed he didn't act like Superman but at the same time Snyder did a bad job highlighting a lot of the traits that make him Superman. In fact he spent more time on his failures or shortcomings.

Spoiler

First he failed to save anyone in the hearing, then he got beaten up by Batman, then the government nuked him dead, then he died...again. He was killed twice in one film. Who wants to be that guy?

 

[Batsfan1]

Probably somewhere Gordon and Batman could meet in private. It makes more sense than having it on top of public place like a police building.

Or Batman moved it to an abandoned location. Either way, doesn't matter

They couldn't meet in private in a location that has a giant light on top of it. Have a very great day!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[TripleJ]

Honestly, I'm surprised Snyder was allowed to release such a depressing film. I thought WB wanted get their hands into that 20 billion dollar year toy industry. While I appreciated the films take on Batman what kid would actually like this guy? And Superman. I disagree with all the people who believed he didn't act like Superman but at the same time Snyder did a bad job highlighting a lot of the traits that make him Superman. In fact he spent more time on his failures or shortcomings.

Spoiler

First he failed to save anyone in the hearing, then he got beaten up by Batman, then the government nuked him dead, then he died...again. He was killed twice in one film. Who wants to be that guy?

I certainly believe that's the point..and I think you do two, based on your previous posts (unless I am remembering it wrong).

But, I get what you are saying. It's very much interesting; I understand why people want to see a fully developed Superman.

Heck, even DC pulled a shortcut in New 52 by skipping 5 years....saved them a lot of time of building everything.

They could have done this (although I think the time difference of 18 months is hardly anything; People don't really change that much in an year and a half).

Well, they can. I believe we will see these heroes develop more and more into their traditional selves (well, not exactly that; I would say more akin to modern selves). More experienced, for sure.

 

[Micromind]

Sometimes I think this place is overly negative since past few days, I get that the movie's reception is bad, the movie itself failed to meet expectations of many fans.

But, but why do I see posters posting after the movie's bad reception daily basis, when the same posters were hardly seen before movie's release, I never saw any of them commenting, contributing positively before the movie was released and all of a sudden they appear out of nowhere and start posting whatever negative fact they can think of on a regular basis.

I have no problem with posters who feel let down and are reacting negatively to the movie's shortcomings, but I have a problem when some people don't let go of the topic and post the same old negative posts each day.

I know some would like to counter my argument by saying if you are OK with some people posting positive comments on a daily basis (which is your opinion), then you should also accept the negative comments. But that is not how it works, It's like saying if you feel happy when your favorite sports team wins, then it's also alright to feel bad if it loses, and if it loses regularly, then its's OK to feel bad regularly, we are just here to make sure that you keep on feeling bad on a daily basis.

I know that I wouldn't do the same thing (that is, posting negative comments and circulating the same thing over and over again, just to keep, negative hype alive) If any Marvel Studios movie got a similar bad reception at Box Office and if it was panned by Critics.

 

[TripleJ]

Also a question that came to me during viewing 3. What the **** building was the bat signal on? It's treated like a generic rooftop near the port.

It is. IIRC, Bruce mentioned that he moved to over there to avoid collateral damage (Well, to people). Buildings are fine

 

[The Guard]

I took a friend who is a film major and screenwriter to see this tonight. He doesn't like comic book films usually. He loved this one. Thought the complaints about editing were way overblown, and had issues with the pacing in the third act. But he thought it was very cleverly written and structured.

 

[JtheDreamer]

I certainly believe that's the point..and I think you do two, based on your previous posts (unless I am remembering it wrong).

But, I get what you are saying. It's very much interesting; I understand why people want to see a fully developed Superman.

Heck, even DC pulled a shortcut in New 52 by skipping 5 years....saved them a lot of time of building everything.

They could have done this (although I think the time difference of 18 months is hardly anything; People don't really change that much in an year and a half).

Well, they can. I believe we will see these heroes develop more and more into their traditional selves (well, not exactly that; I would say more akin to modern selves). More experienced, for sure.

Superman hasn't developed though - through two movies now. How many films is it logical to wait for it? These films are suffering because of the supposed wait - maybe not to you personally, but to an overwhelming portion of the general audience.

 

[The Guard]

He has, actually. He just hasn't developed into the Superman people want to see.