BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 295

[jae7702]

THIS!

double post

 

[jae7702]

People think all this negativity is bad when it's the opposite.

All this negativity is good so to speak. It means we all want WB to do a DC film universe has successful as the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Nobody is wishing or wanting WB to fail with DC. We all love the characters and want judge done by them from WB.

Man of Steel left people divided.

Batman v Superman is clearly more negative than positive.

We all just want DC to do well. It's time WB stops with the whole dark, brooding, grounded and realistic stuff. Films are meant to be an escape.

I disagree, films are not meant to be an escape, A film is a work of art. That's completely subjective thing to say it has to be an escape.

Nevermind the fact, that an "escape"for you does not mean an "escape" for everybody.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

I disagree, films are not meant to be an escape, A film is a work of art. That's completely subjective thing to say it has to be an escape.

Nevermind the fact, that an "escape"for you does not mean an "escape" for everybody.

These are films about grown men in spandex fighting, an Amazon woman warrior who's over a 1000 years old and they team up to fight an alien monster.

If that doesn't scream escape, nothing will.

 

[jae7702]

These are films about grown men in spandex fighting, an Amazon woman warrior who's over a 1000 years old and they team up to fight an alien monster.

If that doesn't scream escape, nothing will.

Even so, what is or is not an "escape" is subjective. And I also disagree with your point that it needs to be "your specific type of escape" just because its a CBM.

 

[JtheDreamer]

These are films about grown men in spandex fighting, an Amazon woman warrior who's over a 1000 years old and they team up to fight an alien monster.

If that doesn't scream escape, nothing will.

I go to certain movies to escape - CBM's are among them those genres. I've never sat there looking for a deeper meaning to life or philosophical themes though. I've got other kinds of movies for that.

 

[Ahasverus]

Why can't there be balance? Why does it have to be full on brooding and depressing?

But that's what 'm saying?

 

[DA_Champion]

Message boards like SHH survive off controversy, debate, and strong opinions.

If there was nothing to be found here other than mellow consensus, the community would collapse.

 

[TripleJ]

You do realize comics are for kids right? I mean I know now they can be for adults but when they were created, they were for kids.

You have to make a Superman film for kids & adults.

Really only Batman & Daredevil can you tread that dark line while still letting kids see it.

Correction: They used to be. There are comics that are specifically for children, but most mainstream comics are not suited (or written) for them.

They have evolved past that.

Of course, you can still make that argument...here's my counter point: These characters have also evolved. If we are going to ignore all the evolution (in comics and in these characters), where does that leave us?

Shuster and Siegel's Superman - the socialist Superman who had no problem with killing.

I am sure that will go well with folks who had a problem with Superman killing in MOS

(I didn't mind it anyways).

And they don't have to do anything. They are not publishing comics for kids. Why should they place a restriction on movies?

Of course, ideally you would want to expand the target audience so you can make more money (but you can still do that).

TDK trilogy isn't particularly suited for kids, but they made the money (if they were made now, they might not be as popular...who knows? The expectations and perceptions regarding CBMs have changed, for better or worse, thanks to Marvel).

 

[Verick808]

These are films about grown men in spandex fighting, an Amazon woman warrior who's over a 1000 years old and they team up to fight an alien monster.

If that doesn't scream escape, nothing will.

Obviously, for some of us, it doesn't. But even if we are escaping into a film or even a piece of literature, it doesn't always mean we want something light and funny. Sometimes we want to think. Sometimes we just want to experience something different.
Like perhaps what it would be like if a kind compassionate god descended on mankind. What would we do. How would we perceive him.
[BLACKOUT]In this case we were ungrateful little ******* until we somehow managed to kill him. Then we made him a martyr. Not that big of a surprise considering what we did to the last one, I suppose.[/BLACKOUT]
I'll admit I could have used a little more fun and a lot more character interaction between the two titular characters but I'm still grateful for the different approach. I don't need six marvel films a year. That's the kind of thing that will really lead to superhero fatigue.

 

[Aquafinn90]

Just got back from my 4th viewing. I've been looking for a single flaw in this movie, have yet to find it. A masterpiece in my eyes 100%. Everything I wanted this movie to be was exactly what it was...that rarely happens with me.

 

[TripleJ]

I go to certain movies to escape - CBM's are among them those genres. I've never sat there looking for a deeper meaning to life or philosophical themes though. I've got other kinds of movies for that.

But, what about the comics that explore those themes? (Even comics containing these characters have done that).

Are we just to ignore them?

IMO, We shouldn't restrict comic book movies to just pure escapism (people tend to look down on the genre itself, perhaps for that reason. They don't think of comic books as something that can present complex themes; rather they think it's written mainly for kids).

 

[Supernova]

Even so, what is or is not an "escape" is subjective. And I also disagree with your point that it needs to be "your specific type of escape" just because its a CBM.

Movies of all types have been an escape device since the beginning of cinema. Thats the whole point of movies, we go to have someone tell us a story through motion and sound. Doesnt matter the type or genre, movies are 90% false anyway with alot of liberties taken to tell a story

 

[C. Lee]

Seeing as I've been quite critical about the movie and have had a few posts deleted, .

You have had ONE post deleted back on 3/19/2016....

 

[Greeneyes]

Here's the thing: There is nothing wrong with being constantly negative about the movie. It's not a loophole, that is perfectly allowed. As long as they keep within the natural flow of discourse within the thread, there's nothing trollish about it.

There is also nothing wrong with being constantly positive about it. Again, as long as you're sticking to the flow of conversation and not derailing.

The problems occur when people turn the discussion away from the film, be it positive or negative, and start discussing the other posters instead. THAT's where we step in.

So yes, we're not going to stop people being negative, and it seems like a lot of the times we've had to step in is when people who liked the film start complaining about all the "haters" who continue to post. If that makes it look biased, I'm sorry, but to us, the line is pretty clear: discuss the film - positive or negative - all you want, but not the posters. If you see someone bashing the positive posters, then please, by all means, report it. It's hard for us to keep an eye on everything at once, so reported posts help a great deal.

Hi flickchick, So someone posting that Snyder is a hack and needs firing 500 times is okay? Someone arguing quite aggressively that this Superman is not their Superman 500 times is okay? A mod on this site taking the piss out of Snyder and the film with a fellow member here quite gleefully is fine?

Sorry, I could go on, but as I said above, in the real world, people would not put up with, or let this behavior go on.

Most of the decent positive posters don't go around angrilly and actively reporting the negative basher hater types, they put far more energy into that than the positive fans/members.

Maybe I'm just not suited to witnessing mean and nasty behaviour that upsets others without saying something about it.

Thanks for explaining where you and the site stand flickchick, you can't really win to be honest as things stand. You say there is no loophole but there is t: I appreciate you replying as you have as you could have just shut this discussion down.

As I said above somewhere, I'm going to ignore and not sweat the small stuff, and hopefully these kind of public (slightly embarrassing) discussions will help the site. Most of us come here with good intentions and love the site and the community, so hopefully mods and members can be a bit more 'balanced' than of late.

If it takes an idiot like me to maybe highlight a few things that need looking at then I'll take the jibes and the ridicule.

So, where's my passport...

 

[jmc]

The main issue for me is people complaining about not having the pure comic book characters on screen. Nobody has any patience for DC. I'm glad they have given these characters a chance to actually DEVELOP.

Call me an optimist but I'm a person that thinks WB has a plan and that the fact that some of these characters are actually the antithesis of their comic counter parts is intentional. Why would you start a franchise with a zany, goofy Lex? A murdering Batman? And a non saviour Superman? Because you can actually take them from there and bring the audience on the transition to the characters you love.

I believe BvS not only is a set up for the future but will also be a payoff. Sure right now people are crying bloody murder about Batman killing but what if over a prequel we see what made him snap. Then in JL we seem him turn in to the Batman with hope again after his experiences. You watch BvS again and suddenly it makes sense why at this time he is like he is.

Same for Lex. Through the JL films and maybe others he turns from a pompous ****hole into someone far more sinister and devious.

And then there is Superman. I don't know if people are just intentionally forgetting MoS of just forgot but a key part of that movie is Russel Crowe's speech. "You'll stumble, you will fall but in time they'll join you in the sun". After that quote it wouldn't make any sense if after one mission that cause a ****ton of damage they just accept him as this saviour. I'm sorry but it baffles me how people use the fact that they think Superman isn't loved enough in this movie. Because it's logical for how this story should go! If Superman, in this film, was an adored figure basically a carbon copy of his comic counterpart then people would be crying about "well how did they love him after he tore the city apart and saved no one?" Superman won't be "Superman" until JL2 IMO.

I love the fact they've started the characters here. It actually gives them legroom to do stuff with them it's Superman's 2nd act, Batman/WW's third act and Lex's first.

Here's the problem - you can't treat this like a weekly TV series or a monthly comic. Films can only be released once a year at best. With TV or comics you can play that long development game because you've essentially got a new chapter coming every week, or every couple of weeks. You can't expect to develop characters at that same pace in film, you're asking too much of the audience to wait 4 or 5 years before you finally present to them the character they've always wanted.

Like it or not, people want a conclusive story within that 2-2.5 hour time frame, and they want the character to have a full arc by the end of that time. You're asking a lot of the audience to stay the course of several years before the characters arc is reached. You can't treat the character arc in a film like you can in the comics over several issues. Film doesn't favour that type of story telling.

 

[Supernova]

If no one likes this movie thats on them honestly, I freaking loved it from start to finish after 2 viewing now. This movie unfortunately wont be fully appreciated intil a couple years from now when more dc films are released and paint a bigger picture of what bvs was setting up

 

[jasontodd]

Some of the most seminal works of the comic book genre are dark, sophisticated and controversial. The Dark Knight Returns, the Killing Joke, Death in the Family, Watchmen, and the Death of Superman are all examples of extremely well received and very adult examples of the medium. This idea that dark, serious and sophisticated is bad, is odd considering the precedent that has been set in the source material.

 

[Jaxon]

If no one likes this movie thats on them honestly, I freaking loved it from start to finish after 2 viewing now. This movie unfortunately wont be fully appreciated intil a couple years from now when more dc films are released and paint a bigger picture of what bvs was setting up

That's true. I see a lot of people have come around to Man of Steel (honestly, don't know how you couldn't be after first viewing). Same will happen for this.

 

[Supernova]

That's true. I see a lot of people have come around to Man of Steel (honestly, don't know how you couldn't be after first viewing). Same will happen for this.

Loved mos the first time as well, really great way to bring supes into modern day

 

[Supernova]

I laifhed so hard the other night when a poster in this topic said they should have done a solo affleck batman movie before bvs.

If they had done a affleck batman before bvs these boards would have been so full of rage the font color would have turned red.

 

[Greeneyes]

I don't agree, I think it's just a really bad movie on the biggest scale possible.

Haha, fair enough Flint, I know not everyone likes the film. See, I'm not raging at you or reporting anyone t:

Maybe if the ultimate cut is really good you may change your mind down the line ?

 

[Greeneyes]

You do realize comics are for kids right? I mean I know now they can be for adults but when they were created, they were for kids.

You have to make a Superman film for kids & adults.

Really only Batman & Daredevil can you tread that dark line while still letting kids see it.

I disagree. You can make it for who you want in any style you want. You just might get bad BO and critically panned though t:

 

[Flint Marko]

Haha, fair enough Flint, I know not everyone likes the film. See, I'm not raging at you or reporting anyone t:

Maybe if the ultimate cut is really good you may change your mind down the line ?

It's within the realm of possibility. I'm interested in it only to see what character moments didn't make it into the film. My biggest complaint about BvS, and MoS as well, is that the movie ended and I didn't feel anything for any character. I'm not sure why I'm supposed to like them or want them to succeed. Snyder has a way of painting a really pretty picture, but he can't make me care. I'll give the ultimate cut a shot to see if it can endear me towards Superman because at the moment he's the character I think they've screwed up the most by a longshot.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Here's the problem - you can't treat this like a weekly TV series or a monthly comic. Films can only be released once a year at best. With TV or comics you can play that long development game because you've essentially got a new chapter coming every week, or every couple of weeks. You can't expect to develop characters at that same pace in film, you're asking too much of the audience to wait 4 or 5 years before you finally present to them the character they've always wanted.

Like it or not, people want a conclusive story within that 2-2.5 hour time frame, and they want the character to have a full arc by the end of that time. You're asking a lot of the audience to stay the course of several years before the characters arc is reached. You can't treat the character arc in a film like you can in the comics over several issues. Film doesn't favour that type of story telling.

Excellent points all around.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

So Tracy Morgan saw Batman v Superman and gave his thoughts

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