BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 295

[TripleJ]

The core aspects of Barry/Flash are still there. It's nothing like what Snyder did to Batman and Superman.

Not really. They sort of made Barry into Wally.

 

[FunkMiller]

The core aspects of Barry/Flash are still there. It's nothing like what Snyder did to Batman and Superman.

 

[kguillou]

Actually, I think if you gavr Berlanti a real budget I think he'd make a magnificient Batman v Superman or Justice League movie. Legends of Tomorrow is a wonderful show and had vety impressive set pieces considering its low budget.

In fact, I bet if this was a Betlanti production and not Zack Snydet this would have been a HUGE four quadrant hit because Brtlanti nails that. "Fun yet serious" tone.

 

[king666]

Not really. They sort of made Barry into Wally.

Ok, in terms of personality. But again, the core aspects of the Flash mythology and character are still there. Snyder did to Bats/Supes what Berlanti and co. did to Green Arrow. But Berlanti made Flash and Supergirl, so I'm willing to forgive him for what he did to Green Arrow.

 

[AvegningSpider]

Ok, in terms of personality. But again, the core aspects of the Flash mythology and character are still there. Snyder did to Bats/Supes what Berlanti and co. did to Green Arrow. But Berlanti made Flash and Supergirl, so I'm willing to forgive him for what he did to Green Arrow.

I blaim more Guggenheim on good ol' Hipster Robin Hood's treatment on TV.

 

[FunkMiller]

Ok, in terms of personality. But again, the core aspects of the Flash mythology and character are still there. Snyder did to Bats/Supes what Berlanti and co. did to Green Arrow. But Berlanti made Flash and Supergirl, so I'm willing to forgive him for what he did to Green Arrow.

That's why they've been trying to 'lighten' Arrow this season. It's not really working yet as they can't commit properly to the change, and the first three seasons were all captain grumbleface. Arrow began post TDKR and they basically just tried to rip Nolan off. The show was on the backfoot creatively from that point. They hit the ground running with Flash though.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I blaim more Guggenheim on good ol' Hipster Robin Hood's treatment on TV.

He's the one who rewrote most of the humor in Green Lantern too.

 

[FunkMiller]

He's the one who rewrote most of the humor in Green Lantern too.

Didn't he post that dickish tweet about Kevin Smith that put him off for years? Say what you want about Smith, if you're in the comic book business, he's a good one to keep onside.

 

[Plaidchuck]

Bringing Barry Allen back was stupid. Just a decision of a bunch of geezers who have to regurgitate the silver age at all costs.

Pretty damning when the most popular iteration of the flash right now is wally west in all but name.

 

[AvegningSpider]

He's the one who rewrote most of the humor in Green Lantern too.

Berlanti is the Flash but Guggenheim is to him like the Reverse Flash.
May i cue to something like this:

 

[Lencho01]

For those who enjoy concept art:

Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice Concept Art by Vance Kovacs

Thanks!

 

[TripleJ]

Ok, in terms of personality. But again, the core aspects of the Flash mythology and character are still there. Snyder did to Bats/Supes what Berlanti and co. did to Green Arrow. But Berlanti made Flash and Supergirl, so I'm willing to forgive him for what he did to Green Arrow.

And what might that be?

They changed the villains too (taking elements from multiple villains and combining them; Thawne Reverse Flash for instance).

Completely ignored Speed Forced for a while (although they are playing it up now).

Made Barry dumb (for most episodes, he's completely reliant on the team for defeating villains; Flash works alone in the comics, he doesn't have a team to support him).

I am not implying any of these are bad; but Berlanti has taken as many, if not more liberties with TV show (for those who are implying Berlanti would be better for the movies).

Only difference is the tone. Arrowverse is much lighter in tone than Snyderverse (granted, Arrow was dark, it was Flash who lightened up the tone).

I expect the same with Snyderverse, where the coming movies lightening up the tone a bit.

 

[Verick808]

For those who enjoy concept art:

Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice Concept Art by Vance Kovacs

Aw man, that image of Batman punching Doomsday in the face. Good thing that got taken out.

 

[FunkMiller]

And what might that be?

They changed the villains too (taking elements from multiple villains and combining them; Thawne Reverse Flash for instance).

Completely ignored Speed Forced for a while (although they are playing it up now).

Made Barry dumb (for most episodes, he's completely reliant on the team for defeating villains; Flash works alone in the comics, he doesn't have a team to support him).

I am not implying any of these are bad; but Berlanti has taken as many, if not more liberties with TV show (for those who are implying Berlanti would be better for the movies).

Only difference is the tone. Arrowverse is much lighter in tone than Snyderverse (granted, Arrow was dark, it was Flash who lightened up the tone).

I expect the same with Snyderverse, where the coming movies lightening up the tone a bit.

Chris Nolan took liberties with some of the Batman mythos.
Greg Berlanti took liberties with some of the Flash mythos.
Zack Snyder took liberties with some of the Batman/Superman mythos.

Who's the odd one out here and why?

 

[The Guard]

​

when Lois asked Perry for a helicopter and approved it when Lois said it's not for a story, does it really confirm that those people from the Daily Planet (at least those seen in the ending of MOS) knows who Clark really is?

Not really. It's just to show that he's not a complete curmudgeon. Kind of a mini-arc.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

You know I just noticed something. You know how many defenders for this film say "it's edited like a comic book" and "it's too deep"?

These are actually defenses one should defend Ang Lee's Hulk. Lee's Hulk was actually a pretty deep and dark film. Had it come out after Nolan's Batman films, I think audiences would like it more. Plus scenes are literally edited like a comic book.

 

[The Guard]

I get what they're going for with their take, but it sort of doesn't make sense.

They portray him as this being that can't relate to humans, but it's not like Clark lived in total isolation his entire life. He grew up around other kids, he worked with other people while traveling the world. Him being so distant from humanity (outside of Lois and his mother) doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I also don't understand how EVERYONE doesn't know that Clark Kent is Superman. He told the U.S. government that he was from Kansas. Everybody knows Zod and his soldiers tore went to the Kent farm and tore up Smallville. Pete Ross clearly knew. Clark outright told a Priest from his home town who he was. Lois was able to learn his identity. [BLACKOUT]Lex obviously figured it out.[/BLACKOUT]

[BLACKOUT]But apparently the worlds greatest detective and the U.S. government never put two and two together.[/BLACKOUT]

It's like one one had they keep saying they want to handle Superman as if he existed in the real world, but then they do things that clearly fly in the face of that. Given how reckless Clark was with his identity there's no way in hell he wouldn't have been outted LONG before Batman v Superman.

He doesn't struggle to relate to people. He struggles to relate to people AS SUPERMAN, because they more or less see him as a Godlike savior and have all these expectations and demands of him while condeming him for his mistakes, and he's not quite comfortable with that.

As far as the secret identity goes, even though there's an element of realism, at the end of the day, it's still a movie, and you're going to have to suspend your disbelief to a point. It's also been discussed that perhaps some of Smallville does know, and keeps the secret.

 

[AvegningSpider]

You know I just noticed something. You know how many defenders for this film say "it's edited like a comic book" and "it's too deep"?

These are actually defenses one should defend Ang Lee's Hulk. Lee's Hulk was actually a pretty deep and dark film. Had it come out after Nolan's Batman films, I think audiences would like it more. Plus scenes are literally edited like a comic book.

I said the same relation to Comic Books while reviewing the movie, it's pased like it was a comic, then it goes to tie-ien, then back to comic now with a back up story then to tie in and then they end the overarc.

 

[Verick808]

And what might that be?

They changed the villains too (taking elements from multiple villains and combining them; Thawne Reverse Flash for instance).

Completely ignored Speed Forced for a while (although they are playing it up now).

Made Barry dumb (for most episodes, he's completely reliant on the team for defeating villains; Flash works alone in the comics, he doesn't have a team to support him).

I am not implying any of these are bad; but Berlanti has taken as many, if not more liberties with TV show (for those who are implying Berlanti would be better for the movies).

Only difference is the tone. Arrowverse is much lighter in tone than Snyderverse (granted, Arrow was dark, it was Flash who lightened up the tone).

I expect the same with Snyderverse, where the coming movies lightening up the tone a bit.

If Snyder had no intention of lightening stuff up I don't expect he will have a choice now. I just hope they don't go too far. I don't think it will be too hard though. People love him now. Batman feels bad about trying to kill him. I'm sure Flash at the very least will be a lighter character for Superman to interact with. Just don't bring him back being a totally different character.

 

[theinfernoman]

You know I just noticed something. You know how many defenders for this film say "it's edited like a comic book" and "it's too deep"?

These are actually defenses one should defend Ang Lee's Hulk. Lee's Hulk was actually a pretty deep and dark film. Had it come out after Nolan's Batman films, I think audiences would like it more. Plus scenes are literally edited like a comic book.

I've always rather liked Ang Lee's Hulk.

 

[The Guard]

Oddly enough, many fan complaints with Ang Lee's HULK had to do with source fidelity, too.

 

[daddydivine]

Aw man, that image of Batman punching Doomsday in the face. Good thing that got taken out.

Kryptonite knuckles?

 

[kalhawj]

Those concept art give me no faith they can do darkseid Justice. They need to make him look like he does in the comics or get out.

 

[C. Lee]

Then you need to find a better hobby. These are fictional characters - no need to be heartbroken about anything.

People can be disappointed about how a movie about one of their favorite characters is being received by the general audience without having to put up with insensitive people joking about them. If you can't respect a fellow comic book lover's opinion....then you are posting at the wrong site and perhaps shouldn't post here at all.

 

[Lencho01]

He's the one who rewrote most of the humor in Green Lantern too.

Were Guggenheim and Johns the reason the script was trash?

I would love it if some book was written about DC-related films at WB. All those Batman and Superman ones, JLM, GL, etc.