All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

[GreenKToo]

It was before MoS was even conceived. The problem is they're impossible to find now. When you google their names together, MoS links pop up everywhere. But other posters here have seen them and might have them bookmarked. I think it was during the previous Oscars.



Nolan had a HUGE influence on the casting for MoS.

An actor like Russell Crowe wouldn't take his first supporting role in a decade for someone as mediocre as Snyder.

It was because Nolan and Syncopy was involved.

I agree. Several here said throughout production that nolan would have a big hand in MOS, but some just didn't wanna hear it.

Thinking costner and crowe would be in it otherwise is crazy. And I am a snyder fan.
I have never seen two actors that are like totally opposite of what the director usually cast in his films..
It would be like burton casting Tom Hanks or Robert Duvall.

 

[Rockstar]

I know that Nolan had a big influence in helping Goyer shape the story and getting the script in order, I know he helped pitched it to WB and he picked Snyder. But after that, it became Snyders movie. Perhaps it was Nolan's influence that got a few big names cast (or $$$...and Crowe is in some weird looking films lately, though it seems he has a few big ones lined up again, happy for him!) but that's it. See, im a fan of Nolan. Im not a ´´Nolanite`` but I like/love all his movies and love his way of filmmaking. And he's a better filmmaker than Snyder. But Snyder is an extremely talented director and I would hate to see him not get the proper credit if MOS is a success. Because if it is, Snyder will deserve it. And Nolan is not some almighty God who graced MOS with his touch and made it good. If it's great, Goyer and Snyder are equally deserving (Snyder the most, his job is the toughest one). All pieces most fit to make a great whole.

You're off about that. Nolan was very involved in the pre-production phases, including casting, before handing the directing off to Zack.

It was even revealed that him and Emma Thomas had regular meetings with Zack and Deborah during preproduction to plan it all out.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I don't want to see snyder being blamed if the movie fails, and Nolan getting all the credits if it succeeds. That seems unfair.

Honestly I think that all depends on what aspect fails.

If a fan considers it a failure because the story is all wrong for Superman or something, Nolan will have to be blamed along with Goyer.

If it's because the dialogue is awful, Goyer will get most of the blame.

If it's because it looks awful, or the acting is sub par, Snyder will get the blame.

 

[Naked Shia]

Honestly I think that all depends on what aspect fails.

If a fan considers it a failure because the story is all wrong for Superman or something, Nolan will have to be blamed along with Goyer.

If it's because the dialogue is awful, Goyer will get most of the blame.

If it's because it looks awful, or the acting is sub par, Snyder will get the blame.

that's how it should happen, but I don't think that's how it would happen. Hopefully, it'll be a success and everyone will be praised

 

[G.Godfrey]

You're off about that. Nolan was very involved in the pre-production phases, including casting, before handing the directing off to Zack.

It was even revealed that him and Emma Thomas had regular meetings with Zack and Deborah during preproduction to plan it all out.

And yet Nolan said on more than one occasion that this is Snyders movie. Once he hired him, it was on Snyder. Even recently he said that his big point of responsibility was to shepherd David's script. Even his wife said in the past that their main objective was to make sure that they had a good script to give Snyder and then it's his responsibility to make a good movie out of this. But alas, all that will be ignored by a lot of people. Snyder, unfortunately, is in a lose-lose situation it seems. If he delivers, he'll be in Nolan's shadow, if it fails, everyone will assume it's all Snyder's fault.

 

[Rockstar]

This film will be great.

But I guarantee Nolan will get the most praise from fans. Especially if MoS feels and looks more like a recognizable Nolan film than a Snyder one.

But I doubt Snyder will lose any sleep over that will all the millions he'll make from this.

 

[Rockstar]

And yet Nolan said on more than one occasion that this is Snyders movie. Once he hired him, it was on Snyder. Even recently he said that his big point of responsibility was to shepherd David's script. Even his wife said in the past that their main objective was to make sure that they had a good script to give Snyder and then it's his responsibility to make a good movie out of this. But alas, all that will be ignored by a lot of people. Snyder, unfortunately, is in a lose-lose situation it seems. If he delivers, he'll be in Nolan's shadow, if it fails, everyone will assume it's all Snyder's fault.

The trades also said Nolan's responsibility would be to "mentor" the director of this project.

This is why Zack's filmmaking style for MoS isn't the typical Snyder, it's more like a Chris Nolan film.

Nolan said that he was handing things off to Snyder after the pre-production phase was underway. I remember the "this is Zack's film" quote.


Snyder is definitely not in a lose-lose situation. This project will give him some respect. He's been in a bad losing streak with recent projects and needs a hit to redeem himself. Something he hasn't had since 300.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

This film will be great.

But I guarantee Nolan will get the most praise from fans. Especially if MoS feels and looks more like a recognizable Nolan film than a Snyder one.

But I doubt Snyder will lose any sleep over that will all the millions he'll make from this.

In the same way as what I just said, i'll put the praise where the praise belongs.

If the story turns out to be as incredible as I think it will be, then I will praise the joing team of Nolan and Goyer for coming up with it and giving it form.

If the film looks amazing visually, and all the actors are on their top form, and the film has a great flow to it i'll praise Snyder for a job well done.

I really don't think anyone will be going 'The movie was visually stunning, well done Nolan'...

If they do, i'm gonna rip into them

 

[Rockstar]

Let's face it... the majority of praise is going to be on the story. The story was really the strongest driving force of Nolan's Batman films.


Visuals won't make or break a film. They're just eye candy. They enhance the experience, but aren't as critical to the quality of the film as the story.

 

[G.Godfrey]

The trades also said Nolan's responsibility would be to "mentor" the director of this project.

This is why Zack's filmmaking style for MoS isn't the typical Snyder, it's more like a Chris Nolan film.

Nolan said that he was handing things off to Snyder after the pre-production phase was underway. I remember the "this is Zack's film" quote.

Yeah but Snyder said that it was his choice to ground the movie in reality and to make it the most realistic film he's ever made. He could be lying, but he also said that the studio was ´´surprised``when he told him he doesn't want to make this in the same way as his other movies. Who knows for sure. Though for me that bootleg footage (while it had touches of Nolan in terms of story) didn't really look like a Nolan movie at all. I actually think Snyder is in many ways a better director than Nolan (in terms of camera work, setting up shots, action sequences etc) and those ways should benefit Superman. Snyder also brought his writer along for rewrites (probably for minor things). I have no doubt if Snyder added anything to the story it will only be a good thing.

But at the end of the day, all I want is a great Superman movie. One I can call my own. And if I get it, I really won't lose any sleep over who credits who the most or not enough. And hey, if what it takes to get it is a few very talented people working closely together on it, so be it!

 

[Rockstar]

Isn't that a funny coincidence though...

That on a project where Chris Nolan (god of realism) is the producer, Snyder *decides* to ditch his usual style and go for a more grounded, gritty, realistic approach.

Sometimes you have to read between the lines at the obvious.



But I have to comment that Nolan is a WAY better director than Snyder, even in cinematography, action and camera work.

Snyder's usual work looks like an amateur music video. It isn't that far better than McG. He really disappointed me with his direction on Watchmen.

Snyder has potential though, he just needed someone like Nolan to 'mentor' his approach and refine it for this medium.

 

[Boy Scout]

Isn't that a funny coincidence though...

That on a project where Chris Nolan (god of realism) is the producer, Snyder *decides* to ditch his usual style and go for a more grounded, gritty, realistic approach.

Sometimes you have to read between the lines at the obvious.

Or maybe Snyder was smart enough to realize his usual style would be inappropriate for a film that's trying to ground itself in realism.

 

[G.Godfrey]

But I have to comment that Nolan is a WAY better director than Snyder, even in cinematography, action and camera work.

Snyder's usual work looks like an amateur music video. It isn't that far better than McG. He really disappointed me with his direction on Watchmen.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Even though im a (big) fan of Nolan, the action scenes in his movies mostly look very amateurish. And Snyder is better at visual composition and setting up shots, using angles, etc, IMO of course. I don't think Nolan could handle a Superman movie at all for example, in terms of directing it.

The amateur music video holds true for Sucker Punch, but not much else. I prefer the cinematography in Nolan's movies (even though MOS looks to have some of the best looking cinematography I have ever seen, but I need a clear version to judge it - though people present have said so too) but Snyder is no push over in this respect. He just really made a mess with Sucker Punch.

 

[G.Godfrey]

Or maybe Snyder was smart enough to realize his usual style would be inappropriate for a film that's trying to ground itself in realism.

Nah, that would just take more away from The Nolan. No way. We all know Nolan had Snyder undergo surgery where he was implanted with a special communications device which allows Nolan to send his thoughts via brain waves and control Snyder's mind and decisions during the entire production of MOS.

 

[Boy Scout]

Nah, that would just take more away from The Nolan. No way. We all know Nolan had Snyder undergo surgery where he was implanted with a special communications device which allows Nolan to send his thoughts via brain waves and control Snyder's mind and decisions during the entire production of MOS.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Let's face it... the majority of praise is going to be on the story. The story was really the strongest driving force of Nolan's Batman films.


Visuals won't make or break a film. They're just eye candy. They enhance the experience, but aren't as critical to the quality of the film as the story.

Well no, and I don't think anyone is going to be saying that the film succeeded purely because it looked amazing. It HAS to have a good story to succeed. Nolan and Goyer HAVE to have done their part there.

But the man making it come to life, you have to give him some credit.

I mean, if Nolan and Goyer had left it to ME to direct MOS, it'd turn out bloody awful

He has a big job to do. And hopefully, when we see it and he did a great job, people will recognise that.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Or maybe Snyder was smart enough to realize his usual style would be inappropriate for a film that's trying to ground itself in realism.

This is how Rockstar sees Snyder:

 

[Rockstar]

Or maybe Snyder was smart enough to realize his usual style would be inappropriate for a film that's trying to ground itself in realism.

Yet at the end of the day, it was Nolan's decision to ground the film in realism... not Snyder's.

Nolan and Goyer already conceptualized the grounded approach before ZS was on board.

Obviously ZS's usual super stylized music video approach wouldn't work.


It needed a more grounded, Nolan-inspired style of filmmaking.

 

[Boy Scout]

Wouldn't surprise me.

 

[G.Godfrey]

Yet at the end of the day, it was Nolan's decision to ground the film in realism... not Snyder's.

Nolan and Goyer already conceptualized the grounded approach before ZS was on board.

Obviously ZS's usual super stylized music video approach wouldn't work.

So why did Nolan even call Snyder for lunch to talk about Superman. After all, Nolan is a fan of Michael Bay. Perhaps he liked what he saw in Snyders movies (no doubt he saw them all before making the call). Snyder said the studio was surprised at his decision to do something different this time around. That means that the grounded approach (in terms of the visual style of the film) was not set in stone.

 

[G.Godfrey]

This is how Rockstar sees Snyder:

 

[Boy Scout]

Yet at the end of the day, it was Nolan's decision to ground the film in realism... not Snyder's.

Actually, it was David Goyer's.

Obviously ZS's usual super stylized music video approach wouldn't work.

And Snyder realized that. On his own.

It's funny. More times than I can count, I've seen you post links to articles to justify an argument, but it's very convenient you're ignoring all the articles (and direct quotes) that say quite clearly that Nolan handed MOS over to Snyder early on in production.

 

[Rockstar]

Actually, it was David Goyer's. .

It was both of theirs. They were bouncing ideas off each other for TDKR when they started conceptualizing Superman.

And Snyder realized that. On his own. .

You have no way to know that.

Snyder could have easily been told to direct it this way.


This isn't like the Bryan Singer days of 2006 where everyone was 'hands off' on this project. "Man of Steel" was very closely controlled.

 

[Micromind]

I think that Nolan has influenced the more grounded take that Snyder is using in MOS even Marc Webb admitted to using grounded approach while making TASM as he was impressed by Nolan's Batman Begins.

I cannot say for sure what MOS would have looked like if only Snyder was producer and director.

 

[Rockstar]

I cannot say for sure what MOS would have looked like if only Snyder was producer and director.

Probably a slow-mo greenscreen music video like Sucker Punch.