All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

[J.Howlett]

It makes sense for Nolan to decline because I'm pretty sure the brass at WB really wanted his take on Batman to be part of a shared universe and Nolan axed that notion.

With a clean break from Nolan having anything to do with the DC products, WB is free to do what they want. It's a win win for both sides. Nolan stays on the lot to do whatever films he likes and WB does what it likes when it comes to the DC properties.

 

[herolee10]

Are you saying they need individual movies to lead in to Justice League? Because I don't think thats necessary. A change in the tone of the movie could well be used to differentiate itself from Avengers.
Besides, why 8-10 years if not for the lead in?
Also I doubt people have much concern who is playing Batman. Considering the fact that over 5 actor has played Batman in recent years and most of the flack ASM got was because the origin was kinda told just recently. Justice League just stars Batman, its not an origin movie.

1. No, I'm not saying that having films leading up to it is essential; if anything, Warner Bros. are probably too afraid to gamble on other characters outside of the big Two (Batman and Superman) when it comes to solo features. However, it'd make it that much more harder to get some to invest in these characters in regards to the ones that didn't get the opportunity to shine on their own before the big team up film. One of the biggest points that a JLA film should try to sell and aim is that they should get audiences to actually care about wanting to see these group of remarkable individuals get together to fight as one.

2. When it comes to Batman; George Glooney is forgettable, the last time we saw Keaton in the role was in 92, and Kilmer didn't exactly make the most memorable impression as Bruce Wayne. If anything, I'd call Kilmer the Ed Norton of Bruce Waynes. Considering on how popular Nolan's franchise has become, along with Christian Bale having given such a great performance, I seriously doubt that people wouldn't care on who the next Batman would be. If people are still riding high off of the Nolan Batman take, do you honestly think that they'll give a fair chance to the next guy that plays Batman and not make ridiculous comparisons between the two?

3. Justice League just stars Batman? Okayyyyyyyyyyy......

 

[Rockstar]

The timing of that LA Times article interviewing Robinov is interesting.

Sounds like WB is doing some major damage control after that Nolan interview.

 

[herolee10]

Personally, I still hope that Nolan stays with the MOS franchise after the first film is released (and hopefully) proves to be successful.

I'm hoping that Goyer's and Nolan's relationship is close enough where Nolan would be interested in helping with the narrative process of the story.

I mean, he wasn't forced to produce, let alone get involved with the Superman franchise to begin with, so there was obviously something that he saw that was worthwhile in Goyer's pitch regarding on how to bring Superman back to the big screen.

 

[J.Howlett]

The timing of that LA Times article interviewing Robinov is interesting.

Sounds like WB is doing some major damage control after that Nolan interview.

Doubt that. He wouldn't have said that unless he was given the go ahead to say. I'm sure this notion of Nolan not producing the reboot or anything to do with the DC properties was settled long ago and this is the first we're hearing of it....

 

[Dangerman]

I remember that film receiving a very mixed response from a lot of the fandom back when I was lurking around here and other superman related boards.

Though personally, when I look it at another angle, I think SR having been created in the first place was potentially a good thing for the fans in the long run, especially if MOS turns out to be a success. Why?

1. It's because Singer took over the SR film and went with his concept that allowed "Smallville" the television series to use Lois Lane's character, who had been previously considered as off limits to the show before then.

2. It's also because of SR that we (the fans) even got a chance to see an version of Donner's intended cut of SII since SR made Warner Bros. get into contact with Marlon Brando's estate and work out a deal that allowed them to use all of his footage recorded during the time when he was involved with the franchise.

3. Like Cavil had worded it, Cavil is most likely a better actor than he was in 2005-06 compared to now, and from what I've read, he was in the lead of getting the role before Routh had gotten it. Since then, Cavil has been able to hone his craft and gain more films under his belt before taking on the role of Superman officially.

4. Whether SR had been successful or not or another film franchise had been in existence had SR not been made, we wouldn't have gotten the level of talent involved with the franchise that we have today: (Nolan as Producer, Goyer and J Nolan as writers, Snyder as Director, the entire confirmed cast, the story line, etc.)

5. SR imho was the perfect closure to the Chris Reeve Era of Superman films (marked off with the conclusion of Smallville the Series), so it was the final goodbye to the version of the character that used John Williams' theme and that wore the red underpants.lol

Not only that Superman Returns was the reason why SV was allowed to stay on the air as long as it did. The WB was ready to end the show till Singer stepped in and saved it. Superman Returns also was able to do something most people have been trying to do for years and humanize Superman and show a Superman with faults. Superman was also the first project that gave Superman a child like it or not they were trying to do that or hinting at it in the comics for years (during Rucka's run) which lead to Chris Kent. Superman Returns also IMO gave us our best or tied for our best Superman to date. See even though Superman Returns had a mix reaction from us comic fans to the GA and critics it got the same reaction as BB and made more. If not for Singer delaying things and not getting to work on the sequel when the WB wanted him too we would have had a sequel. I loved the movie and would have loved to see a sequel just to see where Singer was going with everything but in the same I am glad for the reboot as well because in the long run SR wrote itself into a corner and this would have happened one way or another much like how the same could be said for Nolan's Batman if things happen as I've read in the spoilers.

 

[herolee10]

Not only that Superman Returns was the reason why SV was allowed to stay on the air as long as it did. The WB was ready to end the show till Singer stepped in and saved it. Superman Returns also was able to do something most people have been trying to do for years and humanize Superman and show a Superman with faults. Superman was also the first project that gave Superman a child like it or not they were trying to do that or hinting at it in the comics for years (during Rucka's run) which lead to Chris Kent. Superman Returns also IMO gave us our best or tied for our best Superman to date. See even though Superman Returns had a mix reaction from us comic fans to the GA and critics it got the same reaction as BB and made more. If not for Singer delaying things and not getting to work on the sequel when the WB wanted him too we would have had a sequel. I loved the movie and would have loved to see a sequel just to see where Singer was going with everything but in the same I am glad for the reboot as well because in the long run SR wrote itself into a corner and this would have happened one way or another much like how the same could be said for Nolan's Batman if things happen as I've read in the spoilers.

If MOS is to be the Superman film that we've been waiting for, then I'd definitely call SR the medical shot that we needed but didn't want to take in order for us to get to where we are now with regarding on what we've gotten in exchanged regarding the character of Superman in the medium.

If anything, the only real people that were robbed were the X-Men fans since Singer would have likely done a better job with X3 had he stayed on than Ratner did.

 

[Micromind]

Not only that Superman Returns was the reason why SV was allowed to stay on the air as long as it did. The WB was ready to end the show till Singer stepped in and saved it. Superman Returns also was able to do something most people have been trying to do for years and humanize Superman and show a Superman with faults. Superman was also the first project that gave Superman a child like it or not they were trying to do that or hinting at it in the comics for years (during Rucka's run) which lead to Chris Kent. Superman Returns also IMO gave us our best or tied for our best Superman to date. See even though Superman Returns had a mix reaction from us comic fans to the GA and critics it got the same reaction as BB and made more. If not for Singer delaying things and not getting to work on the sequel when the WB wanted him too we would have had a sequel. I loved the movie and would have loved to see a sequel just to see where Singer was going with everything but in the same I am glad for the reboot as well because in the long run SR wrote itself into a corner and this would have happened one way or another much like how the same could be said for Nolan's Batman if things happen as I've read in the spoilers.

See I like SR but looking back I can point out what went wrong for Singer and his team, when SR was planned they should have allowed themselves some "space" to give the story a new direction, if needed for the sequels, that is they should have planned more than one vague direction for the sequels in advance, in case people did not like the original direction that they were going.

Like Batman movies had its own share of lows (B&R) and similarly Superman had its own lows (Superman 4) .
Let's hope that MOS manages to be a successful movie.

 

[herolee10]

Let's hope that MOS manages to be a successful movie.

Indeed; I want Superman to reclaim that top spot of being the most popular and successful solo hero franchise.

And honestly, when I really think about all of the heroes that we've gotten in films within the last decade, I think...given that Superman was the first superhero, it'd be nice to go back to those roots to really redefine on what it means to be a real hero and such.

It really sucks as a Superman fan that the character is as low as he is when it comes to exposure in films as of late.

And despite what Rockstar may say, I don't think at all that it has anything to do with the character not being relevant any more, but more about the character not having been presented properly to viewers.

 

[Boosted]

I think people are going way too overboard on that Robinov quote. It sounds like to me that in the next month he wants to get together with people in the studio to lay out the next few years of DC movies, not that they're going to announce something.

 

[Boosted]

1. No, I'm not saying that having films leading up to it is essential; if anything, Warner Bros. are probably too afraid to gamble on other characters outside of the big Two (Batman and Superman) when it comes to solo features. However, it'd make it that much more harder to get some to invest in these characters in regards to the ones that didn't get the opportunity to shine on their own before the big team up film. One of the biggest points that a JLA film should try to sell and aim is that they should get audiences to actually care about wanting to see these group of remarkable individuals get together to fight as one.

After Green Lantern, I can't really blame them. To me, having to sit through 5 years of mediocre/rushed movies just to see a Justice League movie sounds like a big sludge. No thanks. I have way more faith in a studio to deliver one good movie than 5 ok ones.

I have no desire to watch Captain America or Thor again. They seemed cheap when they came out, and watching TASM recently only reinforced that. It was so refreshing to see a superhero movie not bogged down by being tied to the avengers. All Marvel did was re-make Iron Man 1, 3 times.

I don't wanna see a couple half assed DC movies just so I can see a Justice League movie.

 

[Naked Shia]

After Green Lantern, I can't really blame them. To me, having to sit through 5 years of mediocre/rushed movies just to see a Justice League movie sounds like a big sludge. No thanks. I have way more faith in a studio to deliver one good movie than 5 ok ones.

I have no desire to watch Captain America or Thor again. They seemed cheap when they came out, and watching TASM recently only reinforced that. It was so refreshing to see a superhero movie not bogged down by being tied to the avengers. All Marvel did was re-make Iron Man 1, 3 times.

I don't wanna see a couple half assed DC movies just so I can see a Justice League movie.

Agreed.

 

[Micromind]

It is interesting that Nolan rarely speaks and when he does he give very controlled amount of information then there is Snyder he speaks with a limited vocabulary and often about something that is not important.

Contrast this with Robinov who likes to speak even if there is nothing concrete planned out, just to give an impression that something is being planned.

This is what is happening right now.(IMO.)

 

[sethypants]

Well no. The article confirms he won't.

Robinov wanted Nolan in a producer position for all the upcoming DC flicks, including the Batman reboot as well.

Nolan has declined.

Confirms he wont do a justice league or batman film. Doesnt mean theres only these 2 franchise in DC. He never said no more comicbook movies

 

[Naked Shia]

It is interesting that Nolan rarely speaks and when he does he give very controlled amount of information then there is Snyder he speaks with a limited vocabulary and often about something that is not important.

Contrast this with Robinov who likes to speak even if there is nothing concrete planned out, just to give an impression that something is being planned (when nothing is being planned.)

This is what I think.

Yeah, snyder doesn't sound like a smart guy at all. I will always remember the sucker Punch interview.

"Why is there a giant bunny robot?"
"I don't know. 't was cool".

 

[Dangerman]

After Green Lantern, I can't really blame them. To me, having to sit through 5 years of mediocre/rushed movies just to see a Justice League movie sounds like a big sludge. No thanks. I have way more faith in a studio to deliver one good movie than 5 ok ones.

I have no desire to watch Captain America or Thor again. They seemed cheap when they came out, and watching TASM recently only reinforced that. It was so refreshing to see a superhero movie not bogged down by being tied to the avengers. All Marvel did was re-make Iron Man 1, 3 times.

I don't wanna see a couple half assed DC movies just so I can see a Justice League movie.

TASM, IMO was probably the best Marvel movie to date. I had just the right balance of Ultimate Spider-Man (my favorite version) and 616 Spider-Man. The only downside I saw to that movie was that during the fight scenes you could hardly keep up because of how fast they were moving. But I loved the story and the wise-cracking Spider-Man. Avengers I was never to big on because there was little story to it. To me it just looked like a Micheal Bay movie where you have hardly any story but just tons of action.

 

[Project862006]

Yeah, snyder doesn't sound like a smart guy at all. I will always remember the sucker Punch interview.

"Why is there a giant bunny robot?"
"I don't know. 't was cool".

well it was lol does he need to give you an insightful deep answer lol

 

[sethypants]

1. No, I'm not saying that having films leading up to it is essential; if anything, Warner Bros. are probably too afraid to gamble on other characters outside of the big Two (Batman and Superman) when it comes to solo features. However, it'd make it that much more harder to get some to invest in these characters in regards to the ones that didn't get the opportunity to shine on their own before the big team up film. One of the biggest points that a JLA film should try to sell and aim is that they should get audiences to actually care about wanting to see these group of remarkable individuals get together to fight as one.

2. When it comes to Batman; George Glooney is forgettable, the last time we saw Keaton in the role was in 92, and Kilmer didn't exactly make the most memorable impression as Bruce Wayne. If anything, I'd call Kilmer the Ed Norton of Bruce Waynes. Considering on how popular Nolan's franchise has become, along with Christian Bale having given such a great performance, I seriously doubt that people wouldn't care on who the next Batman would be. If people are still riding high off of the Nolan Batman take, do you honestly think that they'll give a fair chance to the next guy that plays Batman and not make ridiculous comparisons between the two?

3. Justice League just stars Batman? Okayyyyyyyyyyy......

1. Avengers only had 3 superheroes lead in to it. Man of Steel should it lead in to JL would be one. We have already seen batman to death. Green Lantern was just aired, even though it may or may nor lead in to JL, the public already got a taste of the character. Despite the average reviews and fanboy rage, the general public that watched it didnt hate it. So thats 3 characters already. Yes having lead in films would let people care more about the characters. But you can't deny the fact that prior to Iron man and Thor, almost no one bothered about both characters. They were never making any headlines in pop culture or had any ground breaking stuff going on. Hulk is an iconic character and Captain America kinda does symbolises america a little, but for years, Superman has been in that primary role. I watched a talk show recently who showed clips of several presidential candidate on who their favourite Superhero is, everyone said Superman except Ron Paul who declined to answer. The commenters even say that Superman is kinda the go-to answer for favourite Superhero because of his symbolism.
My point being, Marvel has got to have all these lead in films because those characters are not iconic characters. But seriously, how many times have we heard the Superman vs Batman conversation? Wonder Woman is the first female superhero and is very symbolic to women. Despite watching a solo WW movie or not, people would care about WW because of what she symbolises. So Justice League do not have to lead in as long as a good script is written.

2. Yes yes yes, but how much of the film would be focusing on Batman? The Hulk recently had 2 films both with different actor. Edward Norton did a great job being the Hulk, even the animated series tried to model after him. But they still replaced him. Sure you can't compare it to Batman, but how often is Batman going to be out of his mask? How much screen time would he actually get? Everyone knows the trilogy ends Christian Bale's take on Batman. But this film really isn't another Batman origins. Its a totally different movie.

3. Yes he is the main character, but the show is for a different premise. He would be almost as important as 4-6 other characters.

Again, having said all these, I'm just saying there isn't a need to wait ten years to have all the characters have a solo movie to lead in to Justice League. Whether or not we would get a Justice League movie is another thing. If we do get a movie, I'm 100% on board with only Man of Steel leading into the movie. If we don't get a movie, then all these are just pointless conversation.

 

[Dangerman]

1. Avengers only had 3 superheroes lead in to it. Man of Steel should it lead in to JL would be one. We have already seen batman to death. Green Lantern was just aired, even though it may or may nor lead in to JL, the public already got a taste of the character. Despite the average reviews and fanboy rage, the general public that watched it didnt hate it. So thats 3 characters already. Yes having lead in films would let people care more about the characters. But you can't deny the fact that prior to Iron man and Thor, almost no one bothered about both characters. They were never making any headlines in pop culture or had any ground breaking stuff going on. Hulk is an iconic character and Captain America kinda does symbolises america a little, but for years, Superman has been in that primary role. I watched a talk show recently who showed clips of several presidential candidate on who their favourite Superhero is, everyone said Superman except Ron Paul who declined to answer. The commenters even say that Superman is kinda the go-to answer for favourite Superhero because of his symbolism.
My point being, Marvel has got to have all these lead in films because those characters are not iconic characters. But seriously, how many times have we heard the Superman vs Batman conversation? Wonder Woman is the first female superhero and is very symbolic to women. Despite watching a solo WW movie or not, people would care about WW because of what she symbolises. So Justice League do not have to lead in as long as a good script is written.

2. Yes yes yes, but how much of the film would be focusing on Batman? The Hulk recently had 2 films both with different actor. Edward Norton did a great job being the Hulk, even the animated series tried to model after him. But they still replaced him. Sure you can't compare it to Batman, but how often is Batman going to be out of his mask? How much screen time would he actually get? Everyone knows the trilogy ends Christian Bale's take on Batman. But this film really isn't another Batman origins. Its a totally different movie.

3. Yes he is the main character, but the show is for a different premise. He would be almost as important as 4-6 other characters.

Again, having said all these, I'm just saying there isn't a need to wait ten years to have all the characters have a solo movie to lead in to Justice League. Whether or not we would get a Justice League movie is another thing. If we do get a movie, I'm 100% on board with only Man of Steel leading into the movie. If we don't get a movie, then all these are just pointless conversation.

Actually all four heroes movies lead to the Avengers. TIH lead into the Avengers using Tony Stark. TIH takes place after Iron Man 2 and has Tony Stark talking to Ross about the Avengers.

Anyways before I see a Justice League movie I would want a Superman/Batman movie that establishes the friendship and trust between these two that is one of the foundations of the league.

 

[sethypants]

Actually all four heroes movies lead to the Avengers. TIH lead into the Avengers using Tony Stark. TIH takes place after Iron Man 2 and has Tony Stark talking to Ross about the Avengers.

Anyways before I see a Justice League movie I would want a Superman/Batman movie that establishes the friendship and trust between these two that is one of the foundations of the league.

Okay, I didn't watch that film. Did it have anything to do with Avengers? Other than the last cameo? I know they changed the hulk and none of the other actors were in Avengers. Are there any storylines that actually brought over to Avengers? I'm not sure about that cos I haven't watch that film nor intend to watch it.

 

[sethypants]

Heres another interesting news.
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118056432?refCatId=13

Additionally you can look at the concept art here
http://www.comicsbeat.com/2012/06/26/nice-art-mystery-justie-league-concept-art/

 

[Bibs11]

Interesting article I found on E! today...

http://www.eonline.com/news/328801/...m_medium=rssfeeds&utm_campaign=rss_topstories

 

[Project862006]

wow those are ugly wayyyyyyyyyyy too busy

looks like guyver meets DC lol

 

[Naked Shia]

well it was lol does he need to give you an insightful deep answer lol

no but that shows he puts things in his movies without knowing why.

 

[Dangerman]

Okay, I didn't watch that film. Did it have anything to do with Avengers? Other than the last cameo? I know they changed the hulk and none of the other actors were in Avengers. Are there any storylines that actually brought over to Avengers? I'm not sure about that cos I haven't watch that film nor intend to watch it.

Yea it made some references to SHIELD and the super-soldier program. However you wouldn't understand why Tony Stark was there to talk about the Avengers till Iron Man 2. But yea that movie lead into it as well.