All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

[Stephen K. Hone]

Soft $58 million opening projected for Green Lantern.

God would it not surprise anyone if something dropped on The Man of Steel soon to divert that.

Yeah, like the costume reveal. Mid July would seem more likely though.

 

[Alientraveller]

No, I wouldn't go see it if Superman wore black, it'd be a clear sign the filmmaker didn't understand the character's light as opposed to Batman's darkness, it'd be Jon Peters all over again.

But if Snyder saw this costume as a sign DC were fine with jettisoning the trunks and giving the costume this Kryptonian texture to make the character's look feel more palpable to a general audience who find the character dated and boring (believe me, I love Superman, I've never drawn him without trunks, but my head's not in the sand regarding people's perception of him nowadays), then power to him.

 

[KyleDW2]

My friends who saw it liked it too. They aren't comic book fans either.

Ditto. Hell, my mom liked it and she knows nothing about comic book movies. I really am confused as to where all the criticism from the professionals came from on this one. As both a fan and a layman this movie is everything I could want out of a movie about a interstellar police man with a magic green ring.

Which, now that I think of it, might be the problem for future DC movies if the company decides that Green Lantern isn't a success. They might think that their characters are too high concept or something compared to Marvel's, "Its a rich guy in a robot suit" characters. If Green Lantern turns people off, will DC have confidence that people will get Amazons or the Speed Force?

 

[Stephen K. Hone]

Ditto. Hell, my mom liked it and she knows nothing about comic book movies. I really am confused as to where all the criticism from the professionals came from on this one. As both a fan and a layman this movie is everything I could want out of a movie about a interstellar police man with a magic green ring.

Which, now that I think of it, might be the problem for future DC movies if the company decides that Green Lantern isn't a success. They might think that their characters are too high concept or something compared to Marvel's, "Its a rich guy in a robot suit" characters. If Green Lantern turns people off, will DC have confidence that people will get Amazons or the Speed Force?

GL was very entertaining and is much better than a lot of the critics would have people believe. The biggest problem was that WB showed way too much of this movie, probably in an attempt to compensate for the lacklustre first trailer. It made the marketing seem desperate and chummed the waters for the critics who love to pile on imo. I'd definitely see it again though.

 

[Spidermatrix53]

Green Lantern felt flat to me and committed the ultimate sin:

It felt written to me, not natural.

I can understand not wanting this movie to go Nolan levels of realism (because this character was never meant to be that way), but it didn't feel grounded to me at all. It was a bitt too cheesy and didn't feel emotionally true to me unless Hal was talking about his fears and how much of a failure he felt because

Spoiler

of how his dad died.

It was like as soon as the aliens were introduced into the story they said f*** it and just did whatever the hell.

I don't want that from Man of Steel. I want to feel his journey, his truth. I want to know who he is as a person, as a man before he becomes truly a Superman. When he puts those tights on, I want to feel like he truly believes it's the right thing to do and I want to be right there with him in that belief.

Anyway, that's just my two cents. Bring me a genuinely good movie, not a good "superhero" movie. If X-Men: First Class can do it, then why can't Superman?

 

[Boosted]

hasn't the 58-60 mill been what was expected for weeks now? even before the terrible reviews. which is weird cause people i've talked have dug it. and the viewer rating on like yahoo is pretty good. i won't see Green lantern till monday...but so far it sounds like it isn't nearly as bad as the critics say. whatever, i'm sure i'll enjoy it.

 

[sf2]

58M. that's a lot. i thought it should be regard as a success!
if audiences like it, it will have good legs and surely can do more than 200M

 

[WeasleyIsRKing]

I don't want that from Man of Steel. I want to feel his journey, his truth. I want to know who he is as a person, as a man before he becomes truly a Superman. When he puts those tights on, I want to feel like he truly believes it's the right thing to do and I want to be right there with him in that belief.

Anyway, that's just my two cents. Bring me a genuinely good movie, not a good "superhero" movie. If X-Men: First Class can do it, then why can't Superman?

I agree with your points about Man of Steel, Spidermatrix53. I want to go on that journey with Clark. To feel his pain, to understand his perspective. To know what he does. I want them to portray his humanity. That despite his great powers, he is really one of us. With the same emotions, problems, issues. He has a beating heart like us. He is unsure of himself at times. He makes mistakes.

I don't want to see a perfect Superman. That is boring. We need a Supes we can relate to, on a certain level.

 

[Rust]

I know some of the names are still rumors, but I'll be damned if they dont look good together like this:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0770828/

 

[sf2]

I agree with your points about Man of Steel, Spidermatrix53. I want to go on that journey with Clark. To feel his pain, to understand his perspective. To know what he does. I want them to portray his humanity. That despite his great powers, he is really one of us. With the same emotions, problems, issues. He has a beating heart like us. He is unsure of himself at times. He makes mistakes.

I don't want to see a perfect Superman. That is boring. We need a Supes we can relate to, on a certain level.

his pain??? his humanity???

i think it's wrong to make him as a normal human being because he is not!!! and surely he is not one of us!!! he will not have the same emotions, problems and issues like a layman!!!

he sees thing differently from us. he doesn't regard pain as pain. he doesn't regard human problems as problems. his issue isn't a layman's issue.
he has highly intelligence and understanding of life.

so, pls don't get mixed up between superman and spiderman.
don't make superman a spiderman pls.

 

[WeasleyIsRKing]

So what influence did Johnathan and Martha Kent have on him? Did they not give him some humanity by raising him as a human?

Do you think of Clark/Superman as a God-like figure?

 

[Sabaoth]

Not really...this is a film with a 200mill + budget. same thing happened with SR. It did about 54 mill it's opening weekend. I seriously doubt GL hits 200 mill tho.

I thought the budget was being reported as 150mil for GL?

I think Rotten Tomatoes chopped off GL's legs, pretty damn good.

It will be lucky to hit 130 mil domestically.

At least it wasn't a total disaster like Suckerpunch!

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I thought the budget was being reported as 150mil for GL?

I think Rotten Tomatoes chopped off GL's legs, pretty damn good.

It will be lucky to hit 130 mil domestically.

At least it wasn't a total disaster like Suckerpunch!

Over $ 200 million, and added with the marketing, nearly $300 million. Biggest flop movie ever.

 

[Spidermatrix53]

@sf2, I don't want a weak Superman at all. I want him to be an invincible hero, but to be the most interesting stories to me have been the ones that not only challenged him physically, but also emotionally. If he was absolutely perfect in every way then he wouldn't have needed to be raised. He would have jumped up and put on tights because it's simply the thing to do and there would be no struggle.

I don't want perfection. Clark was adopted as one of our own by the Kents. I want to see the humanity in him, not weakness. Weakness is for other heroes, but Superman is the most human of all of them. I want to see that.

Not angst, grunge, or whininess, but humanity. Even the best of us aren't perfect, but we try our absolute damnedest.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

How is GL doing so far?

$52.6 million, domestically.

 

[WeasleyIsRKing]

@sf2, I don't want a weak Superman at all. I want him to be an invincible hero, but to be the most interesting stories to me have been the ones that not only challenged him physically, but also emotionally. If he was absolutely perfect in every way then he wouldn't have needed to be raised. He would have jumped up and put on tights because it's simply the thing to do and there would be no struggle.

I don't want perfection. Clark was adopted as one of our own by the Kents. I want to see the humanity in him, not weakness. Weakness is for other heroes, but Superman is the most human of all of them. I want to see that.

Not angst, grunge, or whininess, but humanity. Even the best of us aren't perfect, but we try our absolute damnedest.

Thanks, SpiderMatrix53. You said it better than I did.

 

[KyleDW2]

his pain??? his humanity???

i think it's wrong to make him as a normal human being because he is not!!! and surely he is not one of us!!! he will not have the same emotions, problems and issues like a layman!!!

he sees thing differently from us. he doesn't regard pain as pain. he doesn't regard human problems as problems. his issue isn't a layman's issue.
he has highly intelligence and understanding of life.

so, pls don't get mixed up between superman and spiderman.
don't make superman a spiderman pls.

You want to know the difference between Spider-Man and the version of Superman you are describing? One is a compelling film character. The other isn't.

A story is about a journey. A character starts one place and ends in another. In Star Wars Luke Skywalker started as a simple farm boy, learned about responsibility and the Force, and ended up becoming the greatest Jedi the universe had ever seen. In Spider-Man Peter Parker started as a simple high school student and ended as a beloved superhero who has learned that with great power comes great responsibility. But the Superman you described? A demigod who feels no pain and is super intelligent? A man who can't understand humanity's problems? What possible story arc could there be for someone who starts off perfect?

 

[BlueLantern]

I would love it if Superman started off as a man who didn't understand humanity's problems, knew he wasn't one of them.

Through the film's progress and facing off against Zod he realized he WAS one of them as he was flawed and imperfect and was more human than his Kryptonian counterpart.

Similar style to Earth One but mixed with Birthright.

 

[Spidermatrix53]

That's a good approach, Blue Lantern. I just don't want him to be mopey like he was in Earth One.

 

[BlueLantern]

Yup. Similar approach to Thor but not that over the top.

Clark knows he's better than them, doesn't understand why he needs to delve in the affairs of mankind, but at the same time does help them out from time to time as he feels comforted by the fact that he can be their savior if he wants to.

Zod then turns up and openly proclaims this superiority openly and Clark goes with it initially and they're allies for the greater good. He tells Clark of his home, Krypton and gives him a different view of Krypton, one which goes quite swimmingly for the newly indoctrinated Clark. Probably feeds him some rubbish along the lines of Jor-El being similar to Zod and the two of them working together on Krypton only to see it destroyed by a similar level of arrogance exhibited by the humans.

Clark is given a Kryptonian style suit similar to the one in the late 80s Eradication arc with him and Zod working together to ensure peace and order prevail on Earth. Everything goes well but Clark's humanity slowly starts coming out when he sees how ruthless Zod is and begins to question what being a Kryptonian truly means.

**** starts then hitting the fan when the he and Zod start having differing views on how best to support humanity. Through some key losses or disasters Clark realizes he wants the best for humanity and doesn't just want dominion over them like Zod does.

During this Ma and Pa Kent reveal to him the things that came in his ship which includes some holographic messages by Jor-El. Similar to the message 'Live as one of them, Kal-El, to discover where your strength and your power are needed. Always hold in your heart the pride of your special heritage. They can be a great people, Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you... my only son.'

Following a pep talk from Ma & Pa whilst Zod's destroying the Earth with Clark uncovering clothes that have come from the House of El, i.e. the suit. You see him put the suit with a voiceover of his conversation ending with Ma & Pa. The audience only sees the boots going on, cape being on and the S emblazoned on his chest and his eyes blaze up with him saying something along the lines of 'It's time for me to be who I was born to be' or something of that sort.

Cue the final battle with the world's greatest protector facing off against their new leader.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Thanks! That's a bad result right?

Terrible. Unless the overseas numbers are great a sequel is unlikely. And in my opinion, I would like to see a sequel, the acting was great, but the writing. Oh god, the writing... It felt like a cartoon masquerading as a serious film, not something serious that can be suitable for children. And I didn't like that at all. They got the Iron Man formula backwards.

 

[Spidermatrix53]

Clark knows he's better than them, doesn't understand why he needs to delve in the affairs of mankind, but at the same time does help them out from time to time as he feels comforted by the fact that he can be their savior if he wants to.

This approach would work for Thor, but that's about it. Superman should not be arrogant, but actually want to help. That's how his parents raised him, so that's how I want to she him act.

 

[DorkyFresh]

Superman shouldn't be the least bit arrogant or snotty. he needs to have an extreme amount of humbleness and humility to balance the extreme amount of power he possesses. for this reason, he's the ultimate morality figure and peace keeper. a person with the same powers with lesser morals could easily slip into corruption.

 

[BlueLantern]

Superman shouldn't be the least bit arrogant or snotty. he needs to have an extreme amount of humbleness and humility to balance the extreme amount of power he possesses. for this reason, he's the ultimate morality figure and peace keeper. a person with the same powers with lesser morals could easily slip into corruption.

I think while he shouldn't be arrogant, he should have a certain sense of detachment from humanity at the start, on a similar level to the Smallville period in Superman : The Movie.

This should get further twisted by Zod before Clark finally finds his place in society.

I think if he's flawless from the start then there's very little character development, and it'll be just like Superman Returns where he's gooder than good, and then there's no emotional conflict.

It's a fine line between detachment due to his abilities and arrogance, a line that JMS tread very carefully in Earth One. I didn't like everything about Earth One since JMS added the emo side of things to it, but I know where he was coming from.

 

[Ita-KalEl]

It's official: GL has failed to be WB's Iron Man. IMO Wonder Woman would have been a better choice.