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All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 37

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That's new to me....


I expect there WILL be more action bits released, but be honest...

Look at IM3 and the bits with the Plane rescue, Tony's house and the multiple IM.

Are they amazing trailers? Without question.

Do they get you hyped for the film? Hell yes.

Would you rather have seen them first in the theatre? Ummm......

Then maybe you should read before coming with your standard response? And now I realize why I don't like your posting style. You have an answer for everything, because you are willing to change it when the argument suits you.

WB believes in this film, but it won't make much money.

WB knows what it is doing with the marketing, they won't do anything until IM has passed. Then that changes, so now we don't have to worrying because IM3 can't show anymore footage that isn't super spoilery.

Now you are saying money shots aren't a good idea, even though every superhero movie does it. Including Nolan's Batman. Of course, this will change if they do put stuff in there like Hulk catching Iron Man.
 
We don't know it won't make much money at all. It could end up been a juggernaut we just don't know.
 
Folks need a reason to see it other than just the name Superman.Do I want to see all the action scenes spoiled? Of course not, but one quick shot of zod and supes going at it with superspeed and strength will sell alot of tickets.

True.

But look at the first Iron Man or Batman Begins - the selling point was on the main character, and HOW/WHY he becomes the hero, rather than him fighting the villain (Action WAS shown, but it wasn't the selling point).


With MOS, we KNOW the origin. We KNOW what Superman can do (as cool as it may look). But the marketing so far is going for a completely different approach - If somebody like Superman exists, what would you feel? What would be your response?


That is a interesting idea. Yes, we'll see more action. But don't forget the message.
 
We don't know it won't make much money at all. It could end up been a juggernaut we just don't know.

That is the thing. Using that argument style either WB's faith is rewarded with huge money proving their marketing campaign was right, or it does a Batman Begins, and that is what they were expecting anyways and they didn't waste too much money on marketing anyways, and thus it is no problem, they will make it up with the home video and sequel.

You can never lose. It is an amazing way to lay out your argument. :awesome:
 
You can't always go by trailers though. They could take 5 seconds of him flying around from the movie and make it seem like he flies all the time by tricky editing. We see him fly down towards Zod...heck that could even by fancy falling lol. Then we see him take off from the fortress into the sky, through the stratos and into space. All that could be the same flight scene and not different flight scenes.

You could definitely be right! But my gut feeling is that flying will be a very important aspect of the movie, not in a way that they will show him flying a bunch of times but as in they will "make it count" type of thing. If the teaser trailer and trailer have shown us what I'm guessing is important for the production (story driven movie, artistic shots, etc.) flying has been a key element of both in you think about it, that obviously doesn't assure anything but leads me to think his flying will be a big part of the show...
 
It would be so easy for them to follow the formula Superhero movie trailers have for a while now. All cut together to blaring beats and ending on a longer action moment that gets everyone's adrenaline going.

And those trailers work. Well they work on me anyway. In the short term.

They make me go 'heck yeah that looks awesome', but the ONLY thing I go away thinking is the ACTION is going to be awesome. That's what sticks in your head, and damn the substance the film might actually have.

MOS is doing something completely different. It ends on an audience directed question.

So instead of ending with adrenaline and 'looks cool' mentality, it's ending with a draw of curiosity instead. It is cleary different from the others. It's not trying to compete with them for who can show the coolest 'something smashes into the ocean' action shot like Iron Man 3 and Star Trek: Into Darkness are doing.

It's making people remember the trailer for the question 'is the world ready?'. And I think most people will be subconsciously answering 'YES!' In their minds :D
 
True.

But look at the first Iron Man or Batman Begins - the selling point was on the main character, and HOW/WHY he becomes the hero, rather than him fighting the villain (Action WAS shown, but it wasn't the selling point).


With MOS, we KNOW the origin. We KNOW what Superman can do (as cool as it may look). But the marketing so far is going for a completely different approach - If somebody like Superman exists, what would you feel? What would be your response?


That is a interesting idea. Yes, we'll see more action. But don't forget the message.
I think we are agreeing that we both want it to do well. If sr hadnt of happpened, then the marketing would be perfect. It would be something we havent seen since the 80's, but sr did happen. I dont really blame wb for being low keye really. Maybe they think it will be similar to BB and its run. Who knows.
 
Written FAR better by Drew McWeeney at Hitfix here:-

They didn't show footage because "they know they don't have to?"

Pretty foolish assertion. The brand-name isn't what it used to be. Hell they're not putting Superman in the title for a reason. I expect the film to take off big in the states. But the logic presented there is way off.
 
You could definitely be right! But my gut feeling is that flying will be a very important aspect of the movie, not in a way that they will show him flying a bunch of times but as in they will "make it count" type of thing. If the teaser trailer and trailer have shown us what I'm guessing is important for the production (story driven movie, artistic shots, etc.) flying has been a key element of both in you think about it, that obviously doesn't assure anything but leads me to think his flying will be a big part of the show...

I concur.
 
Then maybe you should read before coming with your standard response? And now I realize why I don't like your posting style. You have an answer for everything, because you are willing to change it when the argument suits you.

WB believes in this film, but it won't make much money.

WB knows what it is doing with the marketing, they won't do anything until IM has passed. Then that changes, so now we don't have to worrying because IM3 can't show anymore footage that isn't super spoilery.

Now you are saying money shots aren't a good idea, even though every superhero movie does it. Including Nolan's Batman. Of course, this will change if they do put stuff in there like Hulk catching Iron Man.


1. I never said that MOS won't make much money. I just said it is not going to break box office records, because its the first film in a restarted franchise.

2. I said that competitive marketing (like when both STID and IM3 in March until now) by MOS would be pointless, because the latter comes out 6 weeks later (giving it more freedom to market without a competing film). Now that IM3 marketing has reached its maximum (as I said in my FIRST post), and as Drew at Hitfix pointed out in his post, people are beginning to get sick of that marketing so want something else. Like a breath of fresh air, we have the first MOS TV spot, that is made up of the first trailer.

3. I said that having money shots in a trailer are amazing, and get me pumped up for watching a film in theatres, but I also feel that I would not be spoiled too much. It's all about a balance between showing too much or too little - MOS is in a great position right now, because almost NO money shots have been spoiled, so the next phase of marketing can introduce a few of them, without ruining all of them.
 
That is the thing. Using that argument style either WB's faith is rewarded with huge money proving their marketing campaign was right, or it does a Batman Begins, and that is what they were expecting anyways and they didn't waste too much money on marketing anyways, and thus it is no problem, they will make it up with the home video and sequel.

You can never lose. It is an amazing way to lay out your argument. :awesome:

Fair point haha :up:

I think it'l do well enough at the BO but we can won't know for sure until its out there. We'll just have to wait and see :d
 
Fair point haha :up:

I think it'l do well enough at the BO but we can won't know for sure until its out there. We'll just have to wait and see :d

If it is very good, no matter the marketing, I think it will do respectable at the very least. But that wasn't what I was talking about in that post.

I am done with the "marketing experts" who change their opinions when the marketing itself changes. It is defend the marketing at all cost. I don't understand it at all.
 
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I do wonder though how Jor-El can mentor Kal and tell him all that he may be able to do given his powers. That was always somewhat of a plot whole IMO in the first Superman movie. Unless the kryptonians visited earth since man had basically become modernized how would they know how people would respond and act and what, and how powerful human beings are and aren't against kryptonians. Krypton was light years away and unless the kryptonians had been to earth before...I mean actually been and not seen through a space telescope or whatever, then they would not know how advance humans were. There was a reference in Superman the movie I think (don't quote me) where Clark says to Lois that his home planet had been destroyed ages ago. If that was the case then wouldn't the humans still be either living during B.C. around Moses time or even prior to that as cavemen?

I kind of think it will be established in this film that Kryptonians have been to earth prior to Krypton's destruction. It would explain why there is a second ship on earth (the Fortress) besides Clark's ship.
 
I want a character driven story rather than Transformers but I still want to be entertained with high-flying action and breathtaking adventure sequences. Right now it's being marketed more like a character drama. That's fine for now. But as we get closer to the release date they should release a more commercial summer style appeal of the film too.
 
If it is very good, no matter the marketing, I think it will do respectable at the very least. But that wasn't what I was talking about in that post.

I am done with the "marketing experts" who change their opinions when the marketing itself changes. It is defend the marketing at all cost. I don't understand it at all.

Oh now I get your point.

Ill admit I want new stuff cause I need to fill in the time but I do worry about this film if it doesn't ramp it up end of/start of next month cause people need to know its coming. That TV spot last night was a great idea. I'm not an expert and could be way off but I think all been well this will do just fine.
 
Oh now I get your point.

Ill admit I want new stuff cause I need to fill in the time but I do worry about this film if it doesn't ramp it up end of/start of next month cause people need to know its coming. That TV spot last night was a great idea. I'm not an expert and could be way off but I think all been well this will do just fine.

I have given up debating the actual marketing. I am ready to start breaking down ads. I love the art of trailers and tv spots.
 
Written FAR better by Drew McWeeney at Hitfix here:-

What? There is a lot incorrect with that assessment.

The Superman brand with the public isn't all that amazing. Yes, the name Superman, his S symbol, his powers, Lois Lane, etc - they are all extremely famous and well known throughout pop culture. But this isn't Nolans Batman - there is no major built in audience. The box office ceiling as high as any character, but the 'floor' isn't that amazing. I think a more accurate point to make would be that the Superman name is big enough to warrant attention. Whether or not the product captures a viewers interest is another thing, but Superman will not need to fight for attention from media outlets or in viewers minds the way WORLD WAR Z will have to, for example.

This point, however, - the basis for his argument, really - makes no sense.

The most dangerous thing to do with a giant blockbuster in today's media landscape is to jam it down the throat of the audience to the point where they learn to hate the film before they ever lay eyes on it.

That is hardly the most dangerous thing they can do. Any student of business will know the very best way to find success financially is to be as 'efficient as possible', and then out invest everybody else. Relating to films, that means be the very best film you can be. At that point, how much or how little marketing there is really doesn't matter - the film is what it is. How high it's box office ceiling is gets dictated by the studio based on how much or how little marketing they give it. 'Too much marketing' will not make a great film get average word of mouth. Lets look at some obvious example. 2002s Spider-man is among the most anticipated films EVER. Was it's quality that high? Not really. Was it's word of mouth amazing? Yes. There are dozens of other examples. Let's call this the 'WOM theory'. There is basically no such thing as too much marketing.

Lets take a look at an under marketed film. Batman Begins is a great example. Most unanimously agreed in 2005 that the marketing was weak. The trailers were decent, it had a super bowl spot - but for a film opening on June 15th, it's marketing over the last 2-3 weeks was weak. There were not nearly as many TV spots as the other big films of the year, which annoyed many people.

BB opened to 48m 3 day and 72m 5 day, en route 205 million total. It's excellent word of mouth was evident from the get go, as it's opening wednesday number (15 million) represented just over 20% of it's 5 day gross. Normally, the percentage is much higher. But there wasn't much an opening day rush (thanks to poor marketing) AND the word of mouth was good. $15 million worth of a good word of mouth from Wednesday seeped throughout the weekend, getting it the fantastic multiplier. Now, lets incorporate the WOM theory - which says WOM will generally stay the same regardless of how much marketing there is.

If WB had marketed Batman Begins more aggressively, and it opened to 20 million opening day instead of 15. $5 million really isn't that much more. But, knowing the good will from the word of mouth is compounded, lets run some numbers.

20 million Wednesday with the same 4.83 opening day - to 5 day total multiplier is 96.6 million - 24 million more than Batman Begins actually earned in the same period. Similar to how COMPOUND INTEREST in an investment account works, the wom is compounded. Knowing that, wouldn't you rather $20 million worth of audience members saying how amazing it is, as opposed to just $15 million?

Batman Begins 5 day to total multiplier was 2.82 (205/72). Apply that same # to 96.6, and you have a total of 273 million. That is 68 million more than Batman Begins actually opened. That is the power marketing just a bit more and getting it that higher opening day. The word of mouth spreads like wild fire. Of course, those numbers are on the high end - as the opening goes up, the multipliers drop a bit. But regardless, if Batman Begins had been marketed more, and gotten that 20 million opening day, it would be extremely unlikely it totals under, say, 245-250 million, given how great the word of mouth was. Knowing that, it was an obvious blunder on WBs part to underpromote.

As far as why there was very little new footage, I would guess it is because WB knows a new trailer is coming in the next 8-10 days. Rather than blow their wad early with the trailer so to speak, this is just serving as a reminder that "it's coming". A week from now when a new trailer drops, the word will be all about superman again. This is assuming the next trailer is good, of course.

They're going for 2 news cycles ("1st tv spot" and "new trailer"). They'd rather have the less new & exciting bit of marketing first.
 
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From Drew or the studio? Hard to tell.

Drew as of right now, as I hope his words to not reflect WB's feelings on this subject. I remember last time thinking that Superman was going to roll over Pirates. After all it is Superman, everyone knows the symbol around the world. How could he not dominate? I made that exact argument about how strong the brand of Superman is.

That didn't work out so well.
 
@colliderfrosty
before I get started on an insane amount of set visit stuff...going to post what Thomas Tull said about MAN OF STEEL. Writing now.
 
Drew as of right now, as I hope his words to not reflect WB's feelings on this subject. I remember last time thinking that Superman was going to roll over Pirates. After all it is Superman, everyone knows the symbol around the world. How could he not dominate? I made that exact argument about how strong the brand of Superman is.

That didn't work out so well.

We haven't seen anything to indicate WB is under promoting Superman yet, which is the studio arrogance bit (over confident in product, feel less need to push it)

I'd have been on board had they passed last night, but they didn't. We got a teaser a year in advance, which many big films to do not get. The December trailer was quite long (2:30m) by teaser trailer standards as well. We know they have Carls Jr/Hardees tv spots coming (they're quite popular, what with Kate Upton, Heidi Klum and co. doing commercials for them).

WB may be overconfident in the films reception, but atm, it doesn't look like it's going to cause them to under promote it as McWeeney suggests.
 
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