All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 5

[manofsteel4life]

Not in the movie, doesn't exist... At least, for now.

I mean I'm open to that, but is Clark not gonna have any friends when he's growing up?

 

[Lily Adler]

Don't know at this point.

 

[TheDragonator]

I did a bit of research, and it appears that, despite what some say, Superman is not actually the first Superhero.

Superman: 1938
Green Hornet: 1936
Zorro: 1919
Doc Savage: 1933
The Phantom: 1936
The Shadow: 1930

Superman may have been the superhero archetype, but he certainly by no means was the first.

 

[tomk]

None of them had any real superpowers.

 

[El Payaso]

None of them had any real superpowers.

Like Batman.

 

[Sam]

I did a bit of research, and it appears that, despite what some say, Superman is not actually the first Superhero.

Superman: 1938
Green Hornet: 1936
Zorro: 1919
Doc Savage: 1933
The Phantom: 1936
The Shadow: 1930

Superman may have been the superhero archetype, but he certainly by no means was the first.

He was, since he introduced the concept of a hero with superpowers. So, super-heroes.

Those are pulp vigilantes.

 

[Lily Adler]

Pfft. The Olympians were like the Justice League for Ancient Greece.

 

[tomk]

Like Batman.

You don't say.

 

[Maze]

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Richard_Occult_(New_Earth)

New Fun Comics #6
(October, 1935)

That said, he had no costume when he was first introduced.

 

[I Am The Knight]

The only similarity this Zod has with the Donner one is that he is dressed in black. The costumes aren't anywhere near the same.

That link also describes a Jor-El costume vastly different from the Brando version.

Cept for the big f***ing S on their chest. Or did that come from the comics too...I forget...Anyway, can't say you're wrong.

I had a dream...Of a Jor-El that looked exactly like the TAS version.

 

[TheDragonator]

None of them had any real superpowers.

The Shadow: Able to make himself nearly invisible to the naked eye, can alter and control a person's thoughts and perceptions.

How is that NOT a power?

 

[JAK®]

The term superhero goes beyond having powers and being heroic. There are certain other tropes that are necessary as well.

 

[El Payaso]

The term superhero goes beyond having powers and being heroic. There are certain other tropes that are necessary as well.

Feel free to expand on this.

 

[JAK®]

Feel free to expand on this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superhero#Common_traits

 

[El Payaso]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superhero#Common_traits

"An image of Superman, one of the first superheroes in comics."

 

[JAK®]

"An image of Superman, one of the first superheroes in comics."

The first is also one of the first.

"I used to do drugs, I still do, but I used to too."

 

[El Payaso]

The first is also one of the first.

"I used to do drugs, I still do, but I used to too."

Sure, Adam was described as one of the first men.

 

[TheDragonator]

The first is also one of the first.

"I used to do drugs, I still do, but I used to too."

Yeah, but that doesn't mean one of the first = the first.

 

[Superman_200]

One of the first, or the first, either way he is still bigger than any of the other characters which came a few years before him. The only one that may be more recognizable (may be, a big maybe) is Zorro, if any. He may not be the first, but against any other "superhero", I don't think anyone can argue he is the first one any thinks of. For example, if we were playing a word association game and I said "superhero", the image most people would get in their head is probably "Superman".

 

[El Payaso]

One of the first, or the first, either way he is still bigger than any of the other characters which came a few years before him. The only one that may be more recognizable (may be, a big maybe) is Zorro, if any. He may not be the first, but against any other "superhero", I don't think anyone can argue he is the first one any thinks of. For example, if we were playing a word association game and I said "superhero", the image most people would get in their head is probably "Superman".

Completely different story.

 

[JAK®]

The word superhero is derived from Superman in the first place. While there were characters created beforehand that fit the description, Superman defined the term and because of that, counts as the first.

 

[El Payaso]

The word superhero is derived from Superman in the first place. While there were characters created beforehand that fit the description, Superman defined the term and because of that, counts as the first.

The word itself dates to at least 1917.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superhero#cite_note-mw-0
http://www.learnenglish.de/grammar/usedtotext.htm

 

[souperman]

Here's a super hero...

 

[Breogan]

One of the first, or the first, either way he is still bigger than any of the other characters which came a few years before him. The only one that may be more recognizable (may be, a big maybe) is Zorro, if any.

Yeah even though Zorro(1919) had - the costume, the cape, the mask, the mild mannered, yet well to do secret Identity, the secret lair with secret entrance, the sidekick confidant, the trademark easily recognized logo/symbol "Z", the preternatural theme name/identity, the super skills & athleticism outmaneuvering, outwitting and outfoxing everyone! Described at least by his enemies as having supernatural powers. Pretty much every trope later to be associated with the Superhero genre, probably even had the first Movie(1920) in the action-hero genre (at least they called Fairbanks the first Action-Hero). I still wouldn't call Zorro a Superhero.

​

Action-Hero, Pulp-Hero, Masked-Hero, maybe Proto-Superhero, but I don't think the term Superhero was wide enough in use at the time to even retroactively refer to Zorro as a Superhero today. Despite having more than enough elements/tropes to qualify him, in fact being a progenitor of most.

Yeah the word Super-Hero had already been in use, to describe military men I believe(that's the first 1917 reference), I think the later Shadow(1930) and Doc Savage(1933) and other pulp-heroes were later referd to as Superheroes in ads and reviews, but not by the authors themselves. The word really didn't take off to describe a genre the way it does today until Superman(1938) who implicitly embodied it, and then of course all those that followed.

 

[El Payaso]

Yeah even though Zorro(1919) had - the costume, the cape, the mask, the mild mannered, yet well to do secret Identity, the secret lair with secret entrance, the sidekick confidant, the trademark easily recognized logo/symbol "Z", the preternatural theme name/identity, the super skills & athleticism outmaneuvering, outwitting and outfoxing everyone! Described at least by his enemies as having supernatural powers. Pretty much every trope later to be associated with the Superhero genre, probably even had the first Movie(1920) in the action-hero genre (at least they called Fairbanks the first Action-Hero). I still wouldn't call Zorro a Superhero.

​

Action-Hero, Pulp-Hero, Masked-Hero, maybe Proto-Superhero, but I don't think the term Superhero was wide enough in use at the time to even retroactively refer to Zorro as a Superhero today. Despite having more than enough elements/tropes to qualify him, in fact being a progenitor of most.

Yeah the word Super-Hero had already been in use, to describe military men I believe(that's the first 1917 reference), I think the later Shadow(1930) and Doc Savage(1933) and other pulp-heroes were later referd to as Superheroes in ads and reviews, but not by the authors themselves. The word really didn't take off to describe a genre the way it does today until Superman(1938) who implicitly embodied it, and then of course all those that followed.

But wasn't the first one. And I bet Siegel and Shuster saw Zorro's cape and double identity before shaping the definitive Superman. Too close to be coincidence.

The fact the term 'superhero' wasn't widely used before doesn't deny that retrospectively we can see that previous characters with costumes, gadgets and/or superpowers that stood for justice/revenge weren't proper superheroes.