BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - Part 18

[ThePowerCosmic]

Bruuaahahaharrrphht: and then the whole house creaks.

Using his heat vision to get the nacho cheese hot again and his ice breath to frost the beers.

 

[SpideyFan866]

What does everyone think will come first: a picture of Ben Affleck as batman or Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman?

Nah.

I'd say don't expect a look at Wondy for a LOOONG time.


As far as Batman and Superman go....... I wouldn't be shocked if we got a picture of the two of them when either

A) The full cast, and film's title, it announced.

and/or

B) When the press release announcing the start of production is announced.


And I also wouldn't be shocked if that picture looked something like this:

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Using his heat vision to get the nacho cheese hot again and his ice breath to frost the beers.

and then Bruce does the same thing

Clark: "how...?"
Bruce: "I'm Batman.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

and then Bruce does the same thing

Clark: "how...?"
Bruce: "I'm Batman.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

And I also wouldn't be shocked if that picture looked something like this:

I can't see it

 

[Krumm]

Interesting points:

http://whatculture.com/film/10-real-reasons-man-steel-failure.php

Don't let the title fool you, it's meant to be ironic.

 

[BH/HHH]

That's me as well. I'm really trying to be cautious about all the news we hear. I don't want to get too excited or too worried about anything. The fact I had no grandiose expectations for MOS is part of the reason why I think I was able to enjoy it so much.

I want to make it clear my comedown had nothing to do with Man of Steel as a movie (its my favourite CBM ever) it was just a comedown thinking well what do I have to get me excited to now from this genre? And its not that I'm not looking forward to any future CBMs I am but I was so invested in Man of Steel. For me its been the EPIC of excitement for me. When it finally hit and I saw it several times it felt complete. But then an emptiness crept in. The only thing I can compare it to is Christmas, the build up is so fun that when its all over it really does bring you down.

 

[roach]

I agree with this. I think its the part of the dark knight returns that they are taking inspiration from, that he just doesn't really care anymore and doesn't just knock out guys but makes them nearly paraplegic, very dark, very careless.
Then he joins Superman in the sun and accomplish wonders!....guys...what if Goyer actually did have a plan all along. t:

I don't think he was careless in TDKR...I was referring to the time when Tim figured out who Batman and Nightwing was and was trying to get Nightwing to return as Robin. Batman at the time was brutal and uncaring...he was making mistakes and needing Alfred to patch him up the whole time.

I'd also like to see an arc like they had him go through in Justice League: New Frontier...where he goes from night avenger to superhero...he went from a black and get suit because he was scaring the wrong people to a blue and grey suit with the oval.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Interesting points:

http://whatculture.com/film/10-real-reasons-man-steel-failure.php

Don't let the title fool you, it's meant to be ironic.

Great read. I agree with pretty much all of that, though I fully expect a few of the films detractors to go over that article line-by-line and tell us all why every word of it is wrong, lol.

 

[X Knight]

I've had a weird time with this movie, when it was announced I was initially excited but then I started to worry about it and decided I'd keep my distance from it. Which I have done so far. But I can't seem to get excited for it like I was with Man of Steel and a lot of that is to do with the huge comedown I had after Man of Steel had come out. Sinply because I had been so excited about it and now it was out in a way it was all over. Its funny cause I felt like I needed some distance from Superman afterwards and its only over Christmas when I got my Man of Steel blu ray that I've been able to get back into my comic book stuff. So I'm trying not to get too hyped about Superman Batman simply because I don't want that come down and I am worried about a few aspects of the film so I'm having a wait and see attitude towards it. At least for now, when the trailers are out etc ill probably start getting excited.

I'm sort of in the same boat.

I'm more concerned about Superman's story arc and what direction they are going to take with him, especially now that Bats and WW have joined the party.

Until I hear more concrete info about the story, and specifically what they're going to do with Superman, I don't find myself getting too excited either.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Nah.

I'd say don't expect a look at Wondy for a LOOONG time.


As far as Batman and Superman go....... I wouldn't be shocked if we got a picture of the two of them when either

A) The full cast, and film's title, it announced.

and/or

B) When the press release announcing the start of production is announced.


And I also wouldn't be shocked if that picture looked something like this:

I expect the first still will be very obscure like the first official still of H.Cavs as Superman and Anne Hathaway as Catwoman.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Interesting points:

http://whatculture.com/film/10-real-reasons-man-steel-failure.php

Don't let the title fool you, it's meant to be ironic.

That was a pretty good read, though I expect the many MOS detractors to try to counter every single one of his points LOL.

 

[SpideyFan866]

Interesting points:

http://whatculture.com/film/10-real-reasons-man-steel-failure.php

Don't let the title fool you, it's meant to be ironic.

Fantastic read.

Really makes you rethink MOS.

 

[X Knight]

yeah.....that article was a good read.

 

[BH/HHH]

I'm sort of in the same boat.

I'm more concerned about Superman's story arc and what direction they are going to take with him, especially now that Bats and WW have joined the party.

Until I hear more concrete info about the story, and specifically what they're going to do with Superman, I don't find myself getting too excited either.

Same here, so much concern for Superman which is not how I wanted to feel for the sequel at all.

 

[Rowsdower!]

I'm hoping that rumor about splitting the movie in two (Batman and Superman, followed by JL) is true. That way we'll likely have our MOS sequel with Batman in a strong supporting role, and then a JL movie that gives equal time to all of the characters.

 

[BH/HHH]

I've not heard that rumour but hope its true.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yeah. I have no idea if it is or not, but it would make sense. So many movies these days are getting split up anyway, so why not? That way you can really allow the story to develop and you don't have to rush development of any characters.

 

[WoodyROM]

Wait, so you're saying BvS may be split into two films? That would be an interesting approach.

That article pretty much summed up why I love MOS, great read.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yeah, I don't remember where I read the rumor, but it said they may be splitting this in two, with the first film only focusing on Superman and Batman (with maybe a cameo by Wonder Woman) and then the second film would be the JL movie.

I think that approach could really work, but I guess we'll have to see if there's any truth to it.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

That approach does make a lot of sense and would really work.

 

[NosfeRomas]

I wouldn't mind that.

 

[The Question]

Interesting points:

http://whatculture.com/film/10-real-reasons-man-steel-failure.php

Don't let the title fool you, it's meant to be ironic.

Yeah, probably goes without saying but I really don't agree with any of this. And even based on the perspective of liking the film, I really don't think this is a good article. Making the argument that people didn't like a movie because it was too creative and too well made for mainstream audiences and that people just don't get it comes off to me as defensive and condescending.

I didn't dislike some of Snyder's cinematography because it was stylized and unique and I can't handle something that isn't homogenized with every other blockbuster superhero flick, I disliked it because I think Snyder made a lot of poor choices in filming certain scenes in effective ways that conveyed the information and tone of what was going on that were distracting when they needed to be immersive. I didn't dislike the film because it used drama to convey it's themes and tone instead of tongue in cheek buffoonery, I disliked it because the drama felt flat and insincere, propped up by cliches and stock characters with no personalization or genuine human warmth to make it really connect on an emotional level. Agree with me or don't, but those are my reasons.

Articles like this employ a debate tactic wherein they ignore the actual complaints made by people who disagree with them and instead invent "real" underlying reasons for the opinions of others that make the people on the other side look dim and overly emotional and make themselves look smarter by comparison. It's something that a lot of people do in these kinds of discussions, hell it's something I've done in the past which I very deeply regret, but ultimately it's cheap and it's rude and it's an insult to the notion of a free exchange of ideas.

You liked the movie. I didn't. If you want to talk about it, then let's talk about it. But if we're just going to make stuff up to dismiss any idea that the other person is trying to put forward, then what's the point?

 

[Marvin]

Yeah, probably goes without saying but I really don't agree with any of this. And even based on the perspective of liking the film, I really don't think this is a good article. Making the argument that people didn't like a movie because it was too creative and too well made for mainstream audiences and that people just don't get it comes off to me as defensive and condescending.

I didn't dislike some of Snyder's cinematography because it was stylized and unique and I can't handle something that isn't homogenized with every other blockbuster superhero flick, I disliked it because I think Snyder made a lot of poor choices in filming certain scenes in effective ways that conveyed the information and tone of what was going on that were distracting when they needed to be immersive. I didn't dislike the film because it used drama to convey it's themes and tone instead of tongue in cheek buffoonery, I disliked it because the drama felt flat and insincere, propped up by cliches and stock characters with no personalization or genuine human warmth to make it really connect. Agree with me or don't, but those are my reasons.

Articles like this employ a debate tactic wherein they ignore the actual complaints made by people who disagree with them and instead invent "real" underlying reasons for the opinions of others that make the people on the other side look dim and overly emotional and make themselves look smarter by comparison. It's something that a lot of people do in these kinds of discussions, hell it's something I've done in the past which I very deeply regret, but ultimately it's cheap and it's rude and it's an insult to the notion of a free exchange of ideas.

You liked the movie. I didn't. If you want to talk about it, then let's talk about it. But if we're just going to make stuff up to dismiss any idea that the other person is trying to put forward, then what's the point?

The problem is that the articles wasn't directed at you.

Unfortunately we don't live in a universe where every analysis of art can't be directed upon every individual that receives it. Funny enough this is my perceived flaw in film criticism.

The writer wasn't dismissing your arguments/qualms. He didn't make the argument that people don't like it because of this that and the next thing. He/she made the argument that "some" people might not. I suppose he could have been more upfront about that, but why break with traditions. I'm sure if you broach your concerns to this individual, he will happily respond with something more catered to your experience, till then, this is all one can ask of these people.

I find #7 especially rings true, in my experience with detractors. That is, with some of them.

Spoiler

A major complaint with Man of Steel is that Superman isn’t good at fighting, planning, or protecting.

Whether we like Superman or not, we put a lot of expectation into that “S” and cape. We like to think that Superman needs to be an expert in what he does right away, that he be as perennially calm and omnipotent in his actions as he is in his senses (yet dismiss him as being uninteresting because of those traits).

But Man of Steel is not the Christopher Reeve interpretation (which isn’t perennially calm and omnipotent either). The filmmakers behind Man of Steel wanted to explore a Superman beginning his journey without the training Christopher Reeve’s Superman had, and in many of the comics Superman is not what you would always call a tactical genius anyway.

Do we really need our superheroes to be so far along their journey at the very beginning, even further than they are within the comics they are being adapted from?

 

[WoodyROM]

@the Question
I see your point. That same tactic has been used my many who dislike the movie to make those who liked it feel uneducated in the world of film, so it was a breath of fresh air for me I guess. It's just surprising to me the amount of hate it has received, but that doesn't make it unsubstantiated.

My hope is that BvS will be better received.