BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

[shauner111]

This Is still a batman&Superman film.There are bound to be at least a couple characters from batman lore in film.

We are probally looking at one of girlfriends bruce wayne had In comics being used.I doudt catwoman or talia will be used.

If things were like Superman the animated series you could have Bruce just flirt with Lois.That's not possable here.

Oh it's possible. WB probably forced it onto Goyer/Snyder. I bet it's going to be some mediocre actress who is super hot that tags along with Bruce everywhere he goes in public just because "Clark has Lois".

 

[Spideyfan93]

Larry David would be a very interesting choice for Alfred, if you like your Alfred to sporadically spurt "F Bombs" and complaining about day-to-day life problems.

Seriously though, I'd buy it.

 

[BatLobster]

What the...

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I think you need to curb your enthusiasm...

 

[The Shape]

It better be someone they haven't done before. If it's Selina (too soon especially after Anne's) or Talia (I know I didn't like Marion's performance or Nolan's portrayal) again I'll roll my eyes.

At least give these filmmakers a little credit. They wouldn't be stupid enough to do that.

 

[roach]

Larry David is the love interest

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Larry David is the love interest

That would be bold and different

 

[Wheels]

I don'r want Larry David anywhere near this movie. I could buy him as The Ventriloquist in a Batman solo movie though.

 

[CharlieS]

Larry David, yeah right. That rumor is a joke.

 

[jmc]

That should be the least of anyone's concerns, IMO. You have to look at this from a long-term perspective. This film is not the "last chance" for Superman and his co-stars. If WB is planning to build a DC film universe, then that's exactly what we'll be getting -- a universe that continues on, expands, and features recurring characters and suplots. We can expect to be seeing more of these characters for years to come...and I have little doubt we see another Superman solo film down the line (most likely after JL) before Cavill hangs up his cape for good. This is a marathon, not a race.

As a Superman fan myself, I feel that lessening the focus on Clark and Lois isn't the worst thing in the world, anyway. What do you want to see between them that the introduction of Batman will take away from? Thankfully, Lois already knows that Superman is Clark Kent. There's no need to spend an entire movie doing the dance of "Ohhh will she find out his identity?" In fact, introducing Bruce/Batman into the mix is a great way to shake things up for Clark/Lois and test the boundaries of their relationship.

Who knows what kind of the story they'll come up with? There's no point in worrying or being concerned until we actually have a right to be. You know, once we actually find out a tiny shred of info about the project...

Clark and Lois have a relationship? Thing is this isn't a TV show where you can afford to have long drawn out character development. People want engaging characters for what they're viewing now, they don't want to have to wait 3 years to see a character evolve. You can afford to have long drawn out character development and character arcs on TV because of the nature of the medium being weekly, or in some cases now like House of Cards available to watch in its entirety in one session. It's not the least concern, it's the biggest. MoS lacked engaging characters, throwing Batman into the mix doesn't help fix those characters already short changed in film one.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ The trouble is that if the narrative isn't built AROUND the titular hero, the secondary characters + plot have to be that much greater to make up for this slight. I don't think MOS was able to compensate for its non-character driven narrative.

 

[Dk1201]

Larry David for Ventriliquist

 

[DA_Champion]

^ The trouble is that if the narrative isn't built AROUND the titular hero, the secondary characters + plot have to be that much greater to make up for this slight. I don't think MOS was able to compensate for its non-character driven narrative.

I watched two amazing movies this weekend, Rush, and Gravity. These spectacular films reminded me of how good movies can, considering that 2013 has been mediocre so far. Both of had a lower quantity and higher quality of characters than MoS. IMO, Daniel Bruhl and Sandra Bullock deserve best actor consideration.

I would rather see a small number of characters done well than an encyclopedia of characters like we got in MoS. I get scared when I see fans on these boards wanting to add alfred, gordon, Bruce' s girlfriend, wonder woman, lex, and several minor villains to the cast. I hope goyer does not think like them.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Alfred would have to make a cameo, if there's a scene of Batman in Wayne Manor. Bruce's girlfriend? Like Banner's girlfriend had to appear in TA to assure audiences of his "straightness."

WW. They'd have to introduce her, and then graft her to fit the plot. Lex can be a background villain, so he doesn't have to eat up a ton of screentime.

As for adding a Batman villain in Superman's world, it would be pretty random. At best it would showcase Batman's abilities on a regularly powered foe.

 

[Herolee10]

Honestly, I don't think MOS had too many characters.

Nolan's "TDK" has proven that you can have a good amount of characters as long as you know how to balance and fit them into the story.

Goyer's problem is that while he had this idea to build up a world with all of these secondary characters, he didn't know how to balance/fit them into the story properly like Nolan is known for doing in his films (for the most part).

Personally though, I still don't completely get the hate that MOS gets. When you take away the huge expectations that people had for the film prior to its release and see it for what it is after that, it's not a bad film, especially not as bad as the likes of Wolverine Origins, X3, Spider-Man 3, or Superman Returns.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I think it's the combination of unrealistic expectations/a nostalgia bias/Snyder-Nolan backlash...and the movie itself makes a lot of missteps.

 

[Herolee10]

Alfred would have to make a cameo, if there's a scene of Batman in Wayne Manor. Bruce's girlfriend? Like Banner's girlfriend had to appear in TA to assure audiences of his "straightness."

WW. They'd have to introduce her, and then graft her to fit the plot. Lex can be a background villain, so he doesn't have to eat up a ton of screentime.

As for adding a Batman villain in Superman's world, it would be pretty random. At best it would showcase Batman's abilities on a regularly powered foe.

If I had things my way, I would have these characters serve as the villains for the story:

• Lex Luthor (Main Antagonist of the story and for Superman)

• Deathstroke, aka Slade Wilson (Secondary Antagonist, working for Lex and main antagonist for Batman)

• Metallo (Minor Antagonist, again working for Lex and used as a means of giving Superman a super powered fight. Lex could build Metallo using the left over parts of Zod’s armor from the first film and present him as the ideal hero for the public, one that is at least of human origin when compared to Superman)

If Bruce really needs a female companion, make it be Sasha Bordeaux (I think I spelled her name properly). She serves a bodyguard for Bruce Wayne, while having ties to Checkmate (aka Amanda Waller), thus serving as a link to the larger DC world. She could be present with Bruce, under the guise of serving as his bodyguard, when in fact, she’s there to investigate both Superman and Batman.

 

[Loki882]

Superman, Zod, Jor-el, Lois, Colonel Hardy, etc all got plenty of development in MOS. The only characters that I would argue didn't were Perry (although we did get a good sense of his character), and to a certain degree the Kents (more so Martha than Jonathan). I don't agree that MOS lacked "engaging" characters. Clark, Lois, Jor-el, Zod, even Faora and Hardy were plenty engaging.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I'd rather Deathstroke be saved for an eventual Teen Titans film. He's more a TT villain than a Batman one

Why wouldn't Lex hire Metallo to kill both Superman and Batman?

 

[CharlieS]

Or Lobo the mercenary.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Lobo should be a small cameo in some space dive bar in a Green Lantern movie instead of a role in BvS, a Superman sequel or Justice League. Lobo has potential for his own film though.

 

[TheScarecrow]

Goyer's problem is that while he had this idea to build up a world with all of these secondary characters, he didn't know how to balance/fit them into the story properly like Nolan is known for doing in his films (for the most part).

The problem with the characters in MOS (and this is from someone who loves the movie) is that some of the supporting characters are impossible to develop because they do not have a relationship with the main character. The decision to bring Lois in made it necessary to bring in the Daily Planet and Perry White in a story that otherwise did not need them.

As for the female character, if it's not WW I'd say the next most likely is Vicki Vale as a kind of rival for Lois. It fits in with what I just said above about Perry etc - you can't have developed characters that have no reason to be interacting with one another.

 

[Herolee10]

I'd rather Deathstroke be saved for an eventual Teen Titans film. He's more a TT villain than a Batman one

Why wouldn't Lex hire Metallo to kill both Superman and Batman?

Well I just picked Deathstroke because he’s a villain that audiences haven’t seen Batman go up against as of yet and given that one can never be too sure as to when or if Warner Bros. will make a live action Teen Titans film sometime this decade, then I would just have him introduced here since he is a mercenary for hire.

In regards as to why Lex wouldn’t just use Metallo for both Batman and Superman, well I had this idea on what this film could really be about. I mean, this is more or less my take on what I’d want to see for this film.

This goes back to my idea that Lex could be the type of person who would want to destroy things in order to rebuild them in his image. So after having helped rebuild Metropolis from the destruction that was caused in MOS, the people of Metropolis really look up to Lex as a savior type of figure, and Metropolis has more or less become a city that Lex pretty much owns.

So Lex has larger plans in mind and begins instigating wars and destruction between countries across the globe using Deathstroke as his pawn so that no one would realize that Lex was behind all of these events. This way, Lex can come in and come off as their savior, preventing wars or rebuilding cities/governments, all within his image.

This would go back to what Goyer was saying on wanting to see Superman tackle some real world issues. I mean what would Superman do if people were to start asking him to stop wars and to actually get involved in those types of situations? Would superman go against governments and upset the established order so that he can do on what he believes is right? Things like that could be some great scenarios to place Superman in.

So during this time, once superman starts becoming a problem for Lex, he creates Metallo in order to take out Superman, while Deathstroke is deemed adequate enough to handle batman.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Well I just picked Deathstroke because he’s a villain that audiences haven’t seen Batman go up against as of yet and given that one can never be too sure as to when or if Warner Bros. will make a live action Teen Titans film sometime this decade, then I would just have him introduced here since he is a mercenary for hire.

In regards as to why Lex wouldn’t just use Metallo for both Batman and Superman, well I had this idea on what this film could really be about. I mean, this is more or less my take on what I’d want to see for this film.

This goes back to my idea that Lex could be the type of person who would want to destroy things in order to rebuild them in his image. So after having helped rebuild Metropolis from the destruction that was caused in MOS, the people of Metropolis really look up to Lex as a savior type of figure, and Metropolis has more or less become a city that Lex pretty much owns.

So Lex has larger plans in mind and begins instigating wars and destruction between countries across the globe using Deathstroke as his pawn so that no one would realize that Lex was behind all of these events. This way, Lex can come in and come off as their savior, preventing wars or rebuilding cities/governments, all within his image.

This would go back to what Goyer was saying on wanting to see Superman tackle some real world issues. I mean what would Superman do if people were to start asking him to stop wars and to actually get involved in those types of situations? Would superman go against governments and upset the established order so that he can do on what he believes is right? Things like that could be some great scenarios to place Superman in.

So during this time, once superman starts becoming a problem for Lex, he creates Metallo in order to take out Superman, while Deathstroke is deemed adequate enough to handle batman.

Dick Grayson will hopefully be introduced in the new Batman solo films, if audiences respond well to him, they should spin off a Teen Titans franchise. If WB really wanted to do it, it could easily happen within the decade, and I'll have wished that Deathstroke was saved for Teen Titans. Seeing him beaten early on in the DC movie universe will make him seem less threatening once Teen Titans comes around.

I like your ideas for Lex's portrayal and how he'd basically own Metropolis after the destruction. I also think Metallo is a pretty good idea for a side villain, he's a pretty logical choice actually.

But the bolded part sounds like the plot of Iron Man 3, just replace Deathstroke with "The Mandarin" and replace Luthor with Aldrich Killian.

I think the announcement of Bruce's love interest is supposed to come soon, hopefully they announce who the character is with the casting announcement, that may give us some more insight as to who the vllains are.

 

[Herolee10]

I like your ideas for Lex's portrayal and how he'd basically own Metropolis after the destruction. I also think Metallo is a pretty good idea for a side villain, he's a pretty logical choice actually.

But the bolded part sounds like the plot of Iron Man 3, just replace Deathstroke with "The Mandarin" and replace Luthor with Aldrich Killian.

I think the announcement of Bruce's love interest is supposed to come soon, hopefully they announce who the character is with the casting announcement, that may give us some more insight as to who the vllains are.

To be honest, I never really fully understood as to what Killian really wanted in “Iron Man 3” other than revenge and gaining great profit from controlling the war on terror.

With Lex, I think what would make him different from Iron Man 3’s villain is that he truly feels that he’s the best candidate to lead Humanity and to ensure that they can repel any alien invaders the next time that they come around, along with viewing Superman as a plague to society.

Plus, he could have that whole “Noah’s Ark” concept of destroying civilizations in order to rebuild them the way that he views humanity should be, which would be different I think than Aldrich Killian’s goal (I think).

I would actually laugh a bit if the new female lead didn’t turn out to be a love interest for Bruce at all after the amount of time that’s been spent thinking that she was going to be.

I mean do we really have any credible info to suggest that they’re looking for a female character that’s meant to be Bruce’s love interest, or was that just speculated based off of the fact that they were looking for a strong female character that wasn’t Lois?