BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

[shauner111]

Burton atleast HAD a Gotham. Nolan just had a modern city, first obviously Chicago and then obviously NY. A design fail as well as a continuity fail of the Nolan films (amongst others).

Gotham was originally based on New York City. It was a stand-in for NY. So Nolan went back to the original intention, that's all. But yes I love Burton's Gotham. But even that wasn't completely accurate, it was too stylized.

Yes those two streets in Burton's Gotham looked great lol. Seriously though, I love the look of Burton's Gotham but it doesn't feel big enough.

LOL yeah. Burton's Gotham felt like a small town. Especially in Batman Returns.

Sure he's successful. No doubt about that. And he's kinda a big deal, Hollywood power wise. But jeez I find his films so mediocre. Maybe that's why I find his hype confounding. Like I cannot see past the bad film-making and really understand what people see in his films. I have tried people telling me what is great about Nolan and what they essentially said was his popularity!

I personally wouldn't rank him within a Top 100 of the best film-makers working today.

Bad filmmaking? Haha ok. That's why just about every filmmaker and actor have been talking about his qualities since Memento.

What people see? easy. The way he writes his characters and focuses on the psychological and obsessiveness of oneself. The fantastic cinematography, double meanings and details he has in his films. I can go on and on. He hasn't even scratched the surface of what he can do. And yes, there are things that I find dull, mainly with some of his earlier work. I think the main thing with Nolan is his influence on other filmmakers.

But I do find a lot of other directors are currently doing much more interesting work.

 

[BatLobster]

It's not interesting for any actor? Hmm. Tell that to Christian Bale who is one of the greatest actors of the last 15 years. Im positive he would disagree. After all the actor has to play 3 different distinct roles. 2 of which are the polar opposites of each other.

Yup, nailed it.

Tarantino may be my favorite director of all time. I love Quentin. But this is a man who has Kick-Ass 2 and Lone Ranger on his "favorite films of 2013" list. A man who doesn't enjoy the Daniel Craig Bond films and feels Skyfall was just an action movie, not a Bond movie. Which is b.s. So it's safe to say that he enjoys the hokey Bond movies of the past like with Brosnan or Moore. Whats my point? Like with Bond, he doesn't really know these characters it seems.

Indeed, Quentin's tastes are a bit eccentric. But hey, gotta love him for that.

I generally feel like people who don't think Batman is an interesting character don't know much about the character.

This too. I also think Quentin is probably favors Superman fan due do the monologue in Kill Bill 2 and him writing that essay about why Superman Returns was a great movie. Not sure what he thought of Man of Steel though. My guess would be he wasn't a fan.

 

[Rowsdower!]

The Superman Returns thing baffles me. How can a guy who writes such amazing dialogue and great characters love a movie where the main character has no personality and hardly says a word (in a clear attempt to cover his severely limited acting ability)?

 

[shauner111]

Quentin's tastes are sometimes great as he enjoys a lot of the standard old classics like most of us love. Things that made him into the filmmaker he is today. Crime films, spaghetti westerns, etc. But he is also a popcorn movie junkie where violence or just plain dumb fun is more up his alley than a Kubrick movie, or something with actual calculated violence that isn't there to just entertain. He'll diss "Drive" but enjoy a Eli Roth movie more (again, a close friend of his).

He's a fan of Kung-fu movies where the acting is obviously the weak point. Things like Superman Returns, slasher films, Lone Ranger, etc. So it doesn't surprise me that he would bash a James Bond movie once they actually start trying to take it more seriously, or the same with Batman or any other comic book movie. He is also very old school which is why he would enjoy something straight out of the Donnerverse or Adam West/Michael Keaton days rather than something modern. Don't forget that he HATES 3D and Digital with a passion.

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah, I remember a while back we were discussing whether or not Quentin was a fan of the Nolan movies and someone mentioned that he liked them due to a comment he made on Howard Stern (I think) about getting upset with people who would watch a movie like TDKR on their phone.

Judging by his latest comments my guess would be he probably admired the Nolan Bat-movies on a technical level but didn't care much for the realism/serious take on the mythos.

 

[shauner111]

I saw that interview. It didn't seem like he was defending the movie, he just doesn't like anybody watching a movie especially for the first time (especially film & not digital) on an iphone rather than in a theater. Who knows maybe he enjoyed the movies but I take it like he's more into stylized fantasy for action movies and superheroes.

 

[BatLobster]

That's what I mean, he probably appreciates that Nolan takes a stand against 3D and is one of the loudest proponents for keeping film alive in Hollywood, but that might be where his love stops for the Batman movies.

 

[The Guard]

Now Tarantino ****s on Batman! Its **** on Batman season in Hollywood right now.

Here is what he had to say about the shocking casting of Affleck as Batman.
I have to admit that I don't really have an opinion. Why? Because Batman is not a very interesting character. For any actor. There is simply not much to play. I think Michael Keaton did it the best, and I wish good luck to Ben Affleck. But, you know who would have made a great Batman? Alec Baldwin in the '80s.

I don't think he's talking about the actual character as written, but the character in relation to how interesting it is for an actor to get into.

Notice that he said "Batman". Not Bruce Wayne.

And he's right. There ISN'T much to play compared to a lot of other roles. Batman has not, historically been portrayed as all that interesting a character, from an actual actor's portrayal standpoint, and what kind of internal character work and skill that requires to pull off. He's been a stoic, brooding guy with a harsh voice. Yes, more likely goes on inside the actor's head to get there, but that's what comes across to most audiences.

 

[DA_Champion]

Sure he's successful. No doubt about that. And he's kinda a big deal, Hollywood power wise. But jeez I find his films so mediocre. Maybe that's why I find his hype confounding. Like I cannot see past the bad film-making and really understand what people see in his films. I have tried people telling me what is great about Nolan and what they essentially said was his popularity!

I personally wouldn't rank him within a Top 100 of the best film-makers working today.

You wouldn't, because you are one of those people who can't disassociate his minority opinion from facts.

Nolan has directed the three best comic book movies including the only one to ever be part of the oscar conversation, inception, insomnia, prestige, and memento.

At the end of inception, when the top is spinning, entire audiences were gasping. I have never seen anyone else pull that off, a complete emotional and psychological grip on an audience.

You are allowed to not like nolan. But you look ridiculous calling him a terrible filmmaker.

 

[DA_Champion]

The Superman Returns thing baffles me. How can a guy who writes such amazing dialogue and great characters love a movie where the main character has no personality and hardly says a word (in a clear attempt to cover his severely limited acting ability)?

Superman Returns was generally well liked by the film community. Nolan admired it too.

 

[Krumm]

You wouldn't, because you are one of those people who can't disassociate his minority opinion from facts.

Nolan has directed the three best comic book movies including the only one to ever be part of the oscar conversation, inception, insomnia, prestige, and memento.

At the end of inception, when the top is spinning, entire audiences were gasping. I have never seen anyone else pull that off, a complete emotional and psychological grip on an audience.

You are allowed to not like nolan. But you look ridiculous calling him a terrible filmmaker.

While I agree with the bold part, there is really only one fact in the rest of your post...

 

[CharlieS]

Nolan capitalized on the Burton's success, the Nolan's movies are overrated, Bale is overrated too, don't get me wrong a have nothing against Nolan or Bale but i think people are exaggerating with TDK trilogy.

 

[DA_Champion]

While I agree with the bold part, there is really only one fact in the rest of your post...

Really, which other comic book movie was ever in serious oscar consideration?

 

[The Guard]

Road to Perdition.

Actually, there have been several comic book movies with a decent shot at an Oscar.

 

[Dk1201]

I want a mixture of Detroit and fantasy.

 

[CharlieS]

Nolan's movies were thrillers they weren't Batman' films, Batman was in his films but nothing more.

 

[DA_Champion]

Nolan capitalized on the Burton's success, the Nolan's movies are overrated, Bale is overrated too, don't get me wrong a have nothing against Nolan or Bale but i think people are exaggerating with TDK trilogy.

Really, TDK capitalized on batman returns?



I consider them the three best comic book movies (though first class and sin city are up there) IMDB agrees exactly, and they do very well on RT.

 

[The Guard]

Nolan's movies were thrillers they weren't Batman' films, Batman was in his films but nothing more.

Right, Batman, his gadgets, his villains, his locales and his storyline were in his films...but no, they were nothing more than crime dramas that happened to feature all those things.

Isn't it time to stop with this nonsense?

 

[CharlieS]

Really, TDK capitalized on batman returns?



I consider them the three best comic book movies (though first class and sin city are up there) IMDB agrees exactly, and they do very well on RT.

Like i said overrated.

 

[DA_Champion]

Nolan's movies were thrillers they weren't Batman' films, Batman was in his films but nothing more.

Right, because we did not have idiotic scenes of him building his own gadgets and fully chairing the board of wayne enterprises.

Fact: the nolan batman movies are tge most successful batman products evet, as such, they define batman.

 

[Krumm]

Really, which other comic book movie was ever in serious oscar consideration?

The Dark Knight winning an Oscar is the only fact you have... and barely.

TDK is the only superhero film to be nominated for and to win one of the big 5 (Best Picture, Best Actor, Best Actress, Best Supporting Actor, and Best Supporting Actress). Plenty of other superhero films and films based on comic books have been nominated AND won various other Oscars.

 

[Vid Electricz]

I don't think he's talking about the actual character as written, but the character in relation to how interesting it is for an actor to get into.

Notice that he said "Batman". Not Bruce Wayne.

And he's right. There ISN'T much to play compared to a lot of other roles. Batman has not, historically been portrayed as all that interesting a character, from an actual actor's portrayal standpoint, and what kind of internal character work and skill that requires to pull off. He's been a stoic, brooding guy with a harsh voice. Yes, more likely goes on inside the actor's head to get there, but that's what comes across to most audiences.

Sounds like Django. Or maybe the Bride. Or perhaps Aldo Rain...You get the idea.

Quentin's character's are generally one dimensional, rejoinder spouting, revenge obsessed cyphers. Sure, they're "fun", but let's not pretend like they're anything more than that.

 

[roach]

How quickly we tear down our idols

 

[CharlieS]

Right, Batman, his gadgets, his villains, his locales and his storyline were in his films...but no, they were nothing more than crime dramas that happened to feature all those things.

Isn't it time to stop with this nonsense?

I didn't see the World's Greatest Detective in those films, i didn't see the martial artist master in those films, i didn't see a great adventurer in those films. I don't think Batman should do some acrobatic stuff or some flip but those Nolan's films were thrillers nothing more.

 

[DA_Champion]

The Dark Knight winning an Oscar is the only fact you have... and barely.

TDK is the only superhero film to be nominated for and to win one of the big 5 (Best Picture, Best Actor, Best Actress, Best Supporting Actor, and Best Supporting Actress). Plenty of other superhero films and films based on comic books have been nominated AND won various other Oscars.

I also pointed out the mass, collective gasp of audiences at tge end of inception. I was in the theatre and heard a lot of audience sound. It is also universally acknowledged online.

Seriously, stop trolling.