BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 34

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[LaserBees]

How... does that work?

Batman is an urban legend, nobody knew or thought he actually existed. Superman was the first public superhero.

 

[herolee10]

Damn it, I'm never going to get the last post/first post of a given Superman thread.lol

 

[Poni_Boy]

Batman is an urban legend, nobody knew or thought he actually existed. Superman was the first public superhero.

I get that intent but it's one of those things I'm going to have to see implemented in the film to believe. Having a Batman that's been physically fighting crime for 10, 20+ years and yet no one knows of his existence outside of "legend" is a huge suspension of disbelief for me. It's like saying SWAT teams have existed since the 1990s but not enough people have seen them to make them believable.

 

[slumcat]

Posting interview at the start again, so people can read it.

Zack Snyder interview about this film in French language popcorn magazine that I have ran through Google translate (Only BvS portions)

Your next rope as a director will be the highly anticipated Batman vs. Superman. What prompted you to bring these two superheroes on the screen?
It was a nice challenge. We must admit that show Superman and Batman face to face goes beyond mythology: they are the two greatest superheroes in the world. What is fun with the concept of Batman Vs. Superman is that we will be able to have fun with their relationship. They fought before becoming friends, or friends and they are doomed to clash ... Obviously, there will be a physical confrontation between the two.

Is it an adaptation of lhe Dark Knight Retums?
No, but the comic book will influence the history of Batman Vs. Superman, on which the writer David S. Goyer and myself will work.

The announcement of Ben Ajjleck in the role of Batman has not really appealed to fans ... What led you to make this choice?
Ben brings an interesting counterweight to the performance of Henry in the role of Superman. He has the experience necessary to provide a picture of an older and wiser than Clark Kent man who bears the scars of a seasoned vigilante while retaining the charm that Bruce Wayne when deploying this world. I look forward to working with him.

To return to the reinterpretation of the Superman legend, how does one approach a character who is so deeply rooted in the American identity?
I deeply venerated all this mythology. I think in our collective unconscious, Superman occupies a rather unique place. I really wanted to do justice to the legend, and also the experience is to witness the birth of Superman. It was fun to see Jor-El put his son in a basket to let metaphorically sail along the
River. Henry Cavill was also part of the process of reinvention of Superman.

Have you considered Superman as being different from other superheroes, and you designed your movie as distinct from those who had previously been devoted to character?
From the outset, our approach for Man of Steel was acting as if no other Superman movie had never been made. Superman is the first superhero. That's why I wanted to do this film. I am interested in Superman, because he is the father of all others. This is an amazing ambassador for all superheroes. We wanted to show that, with him, had pushed the popular culture to seize this mythology. Man of Steel is not that screening this aspect, the film also tells a great adventure. For me, as a fan of comics, Superman is somehow the Rosetta Stone of all superheroes. I wanted to make the film treated him with respect.

You described the legend of Superman as "an immigrant story." Can you elaborate?
One of the two creators of the character, Joe Shuster, was himself an immigrant. I found it fascinating that Superman, this child came from a distant planet, is found in Kansas, which is the place of the United States as central as one can imagine. For me, Clark Kent represents a dichotomy: it is an absolute intruder, a stranger in the proper sense, but tries to integrate and perform in Kansas. It shows us a picture of ourselves. At many levels, the questions Clark Kent are American questions. No matter where we come from, we all have this strong desire to be accepted. When young, Clark strives above all to resemble the other. The fact that he is different from them and always will be, is very difficult to accept him. And it is adopted, which is always hard for a kid. I have four adopted children, I know what it is. It feels different, but is also very attached to the land where he grew up. His sense of morality comes directly from its roots in the Midwest, although, of course, his journey did not begin there. But it has a sense of universal justice that makes an exemplary figure. However, it also has its dark side, which allows us to have an exciting drama.

What was your reaction when Christopher Nolan and DC Comics have come to offer you realize Man of Steel?
My first reaction was to say no. But when I realized they were serious, I thought: "Wow. Okay. Uh, are you sure? "(Laughter.) Superman is a character who is not only an icon, I'm also a big fan of him. So I had an overwhelming responsibility ... I took it seriously, as each project on which I worked. I was nervous about making this film. This is Superman. If one pulls it off, it's a character that transcends everything. The Superman symbol is the second most recognized on Earth, behind the Cross Christian symbol! The error is not allowed (laughs)!

Did you fear comparisons from fans superhero movies, with the Dark Knight trilogy Christopher Nolan?
Of course! I like films that Chris has done, but this is a project quite different: the SF side, the way we filmed, the character ... All at once. Strangely, this is a much more optimistic movie, simply because it is Superman. That Chris brought to the beginning of the project, it is this ability to be able to take all the mythology seriously. Not to apologize to present these concepts, but also push us to expose them to the public as they are, without any second degree.

When you find yourself at the head of a project that costs around $ 200 million is what you tell yourself that failure could mean the end of your career?
(Laughs) You can not think about that when working on a project on the scale of Man of Steel, you become crazy. I compare filmmaking to an architect. It cannait budget, we know what is at stake, but we are fully focused on giving life to his vision, through the actors and technicians working on the project on the shelf, or on-site if we want to push the analogy. We do not know how things will end once the job is started. It will also have to make many compromises because of the constraints of time and cost, and there will always be cases where the original vision will be impaired, certain aspects need to be sacrificed so that the film can be, that the building could be completed.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Damn it, I'm never going to get the last post/first post of a given Superman thread.lol

You've got two years to go, plenty of time. On my planet Thread Manager means hope.

 

[herolee10]

On another note,

Out of curiosity (and forgive me if this sounds confusing due to my knowledge for the proper terms)....do you guys prefer the film-grainy look that we saw in "Man of Steel" and wish to see that moved over into this film as well? Or would you guys prefer Snyder switching up his camera and use one that provides the same quality that we see Marvel Studios use for their MCU films?

 

[jasontodd]

Batman is an urban legend, nobody knew or thought he actually existed. Superman was the first public superhero.

To piggy back off that point. Batman is an ordinary hero with no supernatural abilities. Superman is the first "God on earth" and he makes himself known and in doing so he ushers in the Age of the Superheroes. It's a perfect set up for an Amazon princess to make an appearence after years of isolation from man's world. After that hopefully the floodgates open and we get the King of Atlantis and a Martian that's been living on earth in secret. It's extremely exciting all the possibilities.

 

[X Knight]

reading through that interview, I see the word Kansas and I'm like.......

 

[Poni_Boy]

On another note,

Out of curiosity (and forgive me if this sounds confusing due to my knowledge for the proper terms)....do you guys prefer the film-grainy look that we saw in "Man of Steel" and wish to see that moved over into this film as well? Or would you guys prefer Snyder switching up his camera and use one that provides the same quality that we see Marvel Studios use for their MCU films?

Personally I'd prefer a more diverse color palate and a much more light handed use of saturation, but based on what the guy involved in the movie said it's going to look pretty much the same as MOS.

 

[jasontodd]

I get that intent but it's one of those things I'm going to have to see implemented in the film to believe. Having a Batman that's been physically fighting crime for 10, 20+ years and yet no one knows of his existence outside of "legend" is a huge suspension of disbelief for me. It's like saying SWAT teams have existed since the 1990s but not enough people have seen them to make them believable.

He just as likely could have been fighting crime in Gotham for 5 to 10 years and be entirely plausible.

 

[MrsKent26]

@ poni boy

I wanted to reply to your last post to me but the thread went away. I'll try anyways.

That's my issue with this whole thing. People assume my opinion on STM comes from lack of knowledge or silliness. It doesn't. I don't think the themes in that movie were pulled off well and all the campy stuff just dilutes it to such an extent that it is a problem for me. I'm not denying the movie had an impact and I get that others love it, but I don't. If the creators intended it to he serious, it was lost on me. To me, it all seemed like a joke. And for people to say that it's ok to dislike any movie, but then say my dislike of it stems from lack of knowlede...well that perplexes me.

 

[slumcat]

On another note,

Out of curiosity (and forgive me if this sounds confusing due to my knowledge for the proper terms)....do you guys prefer the film-grainy look that we saw in "Man of Steel" and wish to see that moved over into this film as well? Or would you guys prefer Snyder switching up his camera and use one that provides the same quality that we see Marvel Studios use for their MCU films?

Marvel shoots digital, as does David Fincher. But on principle I prefer film so film it is.

But then again, its not like that just because a film is shot on film, it has better cinematography. I think MOS cinematography was strictly so-so.

Avengers was shot by a 2 timed Oscar nominated cinematographer and I think it looked really good.

 

[X Knight]

just please no more shaky cam.

 

[Poni_Boy]

He just as likely could have been fighting crime in Gotham for 5 to 10 years and be entirely plausible.

Of course it's plausible but like I said I need to see it to both understand it and like/dislike how it's implemented. Batman as an urban legend, for me, doesn't work on paper if he's shown as someone "sho bears the scars of a seasoned vigilante." That statement implies both longevity and many physical confrontations.

 

[slumcat]

Snyder sounds so reverential of Superman, as if it is something sacred and something to be worshiped. He keeps saying this is an extremely important story for our times.

Really????????

I abhor this from DC film-makers. Have you ever seen any of the Marvel guys say their films are important or that they worship their characters?

Not even directors making Shakespeare get precious about it.

I say ****ing get a grip, it is just a ****ing superhero movie.

 

[X Knight]

Snyder sounds so reverential of Superman, as if it is something sacred and something to be worshiped. He keeps saying this is an extremely important story for our times.

Really????????

I abhor this from DC film-makers. Have you ever seen any of the Marvel guys say their films are important or that they worship their characters?

Not even directors making Shakespeare get precious about it.

I say ****ing get a grip, it is just a ****ing superhero movie.

It's not just any superhero.........It's Superman.........

 

[herolee10]

Avengers was shot by a 2 timed Oscar nominated cinematographer and I think it looked really good.

Ironic given on how so many thought that the cinematography for "TA" was one of its weakest attributes, with many (including myself) feeling like it was shot like a television show at times.

I had no problem with a majority of the cinematography that was used for "MOS".

I thought it looked very beautiful. My only issues with it were the washed out color filters and how I felt some shots shouldn't have been done on shaky/handheld camera...that and some dodgy CGI.


I really hope that with this film having more down-to-earth heroes/villains, they'll rely more on traditional stunt work and on-set location.

 

[herolee10]

Snyder sounds so reverential of Superman, as if it is something sacred and something to be worshiped. He keeps saying this is an extremely important story for our times.

Really????????

I abhor this from DC film-makers. Have you ever seen any of the Marvel guys say their films are important or that they worship their characters?

Not even directors making Shakespeare get precious about it.

I say ****ing get a grip, it is just a ****ing superhero movie.

There's nothing wrong with it imho.

I think the problem with some directors is that attitude of approaching a comic book film as just a comic book film. Comic Books, despite all of the sci-fi and fantasy elements presented in it, are still works of literature.

Honestly, a good example of how a director SHOULDN'T approach making a Comic book film with the mindset of just seeing it as a comic book film is Joel from Batman and Robin. He'd just tell people before shooting began on how they're just filming a toy commercial or comic book film, which would lower the value of everyone's performances and the overall story of the film.

 

[slumcat]

Ironic given on how so many thought that the cinematography for "TA" was one of its weakest attributes, with many (including myself) feeling like it was shot like a television show at times.

I had no problem with a majority of the cinematography that was used for "MOS".

I thought it looked very beautiful. My only issues with it were the washed out color filters and how I felt some shots shouldn't have been done on shaky/handheld camera...that and some dodgy CGI.


I really hope that with this film having more down-to-earth heroes/villains, they'll rely more on traditional stunt work and on-set location.

MOS looked good on ocassion but ass-crack ugly on other occasions. The finale was a grey blur of pixels. The prologue was a brown blur of pixels.

How about a movie with in-focus images, a steady camera, thoughtful composition and deliberate editing?

But lol that's too much to expect out of Hollywood these days.

 

[X Knight]

Of course it's plausible but like I said I need to see it to both understand it and like/dislike how it's implemented. Batman as an urban legend, for me, doesn't work on paper if he's shown as someone "sho bears the scars of a seasoned vigilante." That statement implies both longevity and many physical confrontations.

the next film is definitely going to have to come up with a good explanation as to how Superman is the "first" when we have a seasoned/veteran Batman AND WW, a character who's origin is rooted in mythology and magic.

if they do go the magic route with WW, that means magic DOES exist in the MOS world.......and yet the world they presented us in MOS seemed fairly normal and not like a world where magic/supernatural stuff are commonplace.

otherwise, the whole "first contact" story wouldn't be so shocking to the public if they're already used to weird **** already happening in their world.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Snyder sounds so reverential of Superman, as if it is something sacred and something to be worshiped. He keeps saying this is an extremely important story for our times.

Really????????

I abhor this from DC film-makers. Have you ever seen any of the Marvel guys say their films are important or that they worship their characters?

Not even directors making Shakespeare get precious about it.

I say ****ing get a grip, it is just a ****ing superhero movie.

It must be really hard for you to watch people get passionate about their work.

 

[HighFivingMF]

if they do go the magic route with WW, that means magic DOES exist in the MOS world.......and yet the world they presented us in MOS seemed fairly normal and not like a world where magic/supernatural stuff are commonplace.

otherwise, the whole "first contact" story wouldn't be so shocking to the public if they're already used to weird **** already happening in their world.

Diana doesn't leave the island until after Man of Steel. So nobody knows about magic. There we go.

 

[InJustice]

the next film is definitely going to have to come up with a good explanation as to how Superman is the "first" when we have a seasoned/veteran Batman AND WW, a character who's origin is rooted in mythology and magic.

if they do go the magic route with WW, that means magic DOES exist in the MOS world.......and yet the world they presented us in MOS seemed fairly normal and not like a world where magic/supernatural stuff are commonplace.

otherwise, the whole "first contact" story wouldn't be so shocking to the public if they're already used to weird **** already happening in their world.

The key word is commonplace, if the world is presented as being normal and oblivious to supernatural stuff, then that pretty much implies that magic isn't abundant. Or at the very least, if it did exist, people treat it as if it's a ridiculous theory and ignore because of no basis.

As for Batman, it's easier. If Superman is the first "public" superhero according to Snyder, then Batman could easily be a legend where no one really knows if he exists or not.