BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - Part 45

[The Endless]

I actually didn't mind Kal killing Zod. It was the only moment of tension in the finale. Up to that point it was two indestructible CGI characters punching each other through buildings in a fictional CGI city that had no life of it's own.

I also like the idea that Kal killing and regretting it enormously, is what makes him develop his no killing rule.

 

[Jumpman]

Bruce "People need a dramatic example to shake them out of apathy. I can't do that as Bruce Wayne, as a man. I can be ignored, I can be destroyed, but as a symbol, as a symbol I can be incorruptable, I can be, everlasting".

Jor-El "In time, you will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive toward. They will race behind you, they will stumble and fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will no longer be alone".

Sounds pretty similar, they're both giving people extraordinary examples in order to be better. Anyway, it was you who brought up Batman Begins.

That's Jor-El hope for his son (in time) but Kal is on a path of personal discovery in the film and by the time he comes face to face with who he is, disaster strikes.

Bruce had 7 years develop his ideology on the "criminal fraternity" and how best to attack it. Kal had what, two days?!

 

[113]

Bruce "People need a dramatic example to shake them out of apathy. I can't do that as Bruce Wayne, as a man. I can be ignored, I can be destroyed, but as a symbol, as a symbol I can be incorruptable, I can be, everlasting".

Jor-El "In time, you will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive toward. They will race behind you, they will stumble and fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will no longer be alone".

Sounds pretty similar, they're both giving people extraordinary examples in order to be better. Anyway, it was you who brought up Batman Begins.

Glad you noticed and said that. Themes like that scream Goyer to me btw. I dunno who was responsible for those exact lines (Goyer or Nolan) but that's the type of stuff I always attribute to Goyer.

And the ending of the Jor-El line is "In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I think that editorial would have been better served had it looked a far more equivalent situation presented at the end of Batman begins. However, what's an ed today without mention of MOS.

What really has the Zod solution working for me is that unlike the typical villain kill which happens in most of these modern cbms, this one was presented as a do or the world is finished in the next 2 hours. Most villain kills don't really come with those stakes save for Thor2.

That's more an issue in terms of power level though really, isn't it?

Batman is not a hero who could feasibly defend the whole world, so when Bane threatens to vaporise all of Gotham, it's as big as the stakes can be.

I'd say X-2 should also be included, with the death of all humans.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Glad you noticed and said that. Themes like that scream Goyer to me btw. I dunno who was responsible for those exact lines (Goyer or Nolan) but that's the type of stuff I always attribute to Goyer.

And the ending of the Jor-El line is "In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."

Whoops, the "in time you will no longer be alone" is from All-Star Superman, which is where the rest of the passage was lifted from.

 

[Marvin]

Releasing on the same weekend is stupid. It is even more stupid after seeing The Winter Solider. Sure, Batman/Superman will make more overall, but it WILL take a hit financially. Marvel can absorb the hit with Captain America 3 because they have other films. However, trying to get that point across here is almost impossible.

This is probably the confusing part considering you are referring to what is arguably the top film producing studio last year in terms of gross and probably accolades(maybe).

 

[Krumm]

I'm also trying to figure out what the author meant by the "oath" that Cap wasn't willing to break. Is he referring to a killing oath because plenty of people died as a result of Cap's actions. Yes, they were bad people but wasn't Zod?

 

[SpideyFan866]

At this point, how can anyone say that Superman vs. Batman is not the underdog, considering the media coverage/bias?

Oh it is. But its really premature to make a firm judgement.

Expect opinions to sway as we start to see and hear more from BVS, starting with the costume reveals.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

That's Jor-El hope for his son (in time) but Kal is on a path of personal discovery in the film and by the time he comes face to face with who he is, disaster strikes.

Bruce had 7 years develop his ideology on the "criminal fraternity" and how best to attack it. Kal had what, two days?!

Clark had been saving people since at least a while before the bus incident, given his age of 33 in the film, I'd say 18 years.

 

[Black Narcissus]

I don't understand the panic.

BvS will make a ton of money regardless.

I'm still excited for this, and there are many who have waited years to see them together.

- Ben Affleck could pretty much do any project he wants! And he chose this. I don't know about y'all but this has me hyped the most.

-Superman and Batman together on the big screen for the first time. I've been waiting forever and this film will pretty much have every audience demographic locked down. So it’s an interesting historical thing.

-WW on the big screen was a nice surprised.

Snyder mentioned:
ZS: Not just that. [The movie] literally takes the “Man of Steel” and “Batman” universes and explodes them. You’re not as tied to the mythology. In “Man of Steel,” we had to create an origin story, a mythology, and there’s a lot of energy into that, which we love doing. Don’t get me wrong. But when you think about how fun it is too — now that you’ve got these characters — to now let ‘em loose. That’s fun!

I'm excited for future DC films.

 

[113]

Releasing on the same weekend is stupid. It is even more stupid after seeing The Winter Solider. Sure, Batman/Superman will make more overall, but it WILL take a hit financially. Marvel can absorb the hit with Captain America 3 because they have other films. However, trying to get that point across here is almost impossible.

Actually I completely agree with you, and I bet most people here would agree to. And John Campea made that same point on AMC Movie Talk an hour ago. BvS will no question demolish Cap 3 at the box office - but that's just winning the battle, not the war.

WB needs to move BvS. Not doing so would be suicidal.

 

[The Endless]

I'm also trying to figure out what the author meant by the "oath" that Cap wasn't willing to break. Is he referring to a killing oath because plenty of people died as a result of Cap's actions. Yes, they were bad people but wasn't Zod?

Cap's a soldier. He kills when he has to.

 

[Marvin]

BvS will face one of two scenarios in terms of batman's reception/buzz.

1. Came and see the big return of cinema's biggest cbm brand

2. So they recast nolan's batman and Snyder won't meet our massive and cinematically recently formed expectations of Batman.

I'm 100% sure BvS will take s**t for the next 2 years irrespective of whatever DC/WB announce or even if they map out the universe fully.

I am hoping that the movie itself is so kick-ass it shuts everyone up completely.

I can already tell you DC fans will be divided on the matter of either batman or superman looking better than the other. Things can get petty.

If the two are anything but friends at the end...
knowing Snyder he may want to focus on that miller esque uneasy friendship and that might not due for the cbm crowd post may 2012.

 

[113]

Whoops, the "in time you will no longer be alone" is from All-Star Superman, which is where the rest of the passage was lifted from.

I don't remember that in All-Star, but it's been a long ass time since I've read it.

 

[Krumm]

Cap's a soldier. He kills when he has to.

I know and I have no problem with that. I was referring to the author of the article and the "oath" about which he was speaking.

 

[Juha Bach]

This marvel can take a hit analogy is baffling if not nonsensical. Are people insinuating that a company is will to waste a 170 mill+ investment especially in this economy? The movie business is about making profit. Thats all that matters.

 

[Marvin]

That's more an issue in terms of power level though really, isn't it?

Batman is not a hero who could feasibly defend the whole world, so when Bane threatens to vaporise all of Gotham, it's as big as the stakes can be.

I'd say X-2 should also be included, with the death of all humans.

I should clarify what I meant is the situation presented in mos was that of, this villain literally cannot be stopped by anyone. With a bane or a winter solider or even lizard...that's just not the case. Especially with a cinematic universe like marvels.

With Xmen, yes villains can get crazy(perhaps the craziest being phoenix) but there is always an element of some other heroic power being there to take up the fight. You don't have to kill death strike, someone else could stop her. You don't have to kill bane, the Seal teams might get him.
With Zod it's very different and I dont' see that too often in mainstream cbms situations.

Save also for the Blade and Hellboys films.

 

[smokethejoke]

This is probably the confusing part considering you are referring to what is arguably the top film producing studio last year in terms of gross and probably accolades(maybe).

I'm talking purely from a comic book movie perspective. I know that Warner Bros is killing it at the box office overall.

 

[Black Narcissus]

BvS will face one of two scenarios in terms of batman's reception/buzz.

1. Came and see the big return of cinema's biggest cbm brand

2. So they recast nolan's batman and Snyder won't meet our massive and cinematically recently formed expectations of Batman.
I can already tell you DC fans will be divided on the matter of either batman or superman looking better than the other. Things can get petty.

If the two are anything but friends at the end...
knowing Snyder he may want to focus on that miller esque uneasy friendship and that might not due for the cbm crowd post may 2012.

Which will mean jack **** in the end.....they will all see this movie and give WB their money.

 

[Marvin]

This marvel can take a hit analogy is baffling if not nonsensical. Are people insinuating that a company is will to waste a 170 mill+ investment especially in this economy? The movie business is about making profit. Thats all that matters.

As much as I agree, I think people mean that if cap bombs, no more cap and marvel will make more other cbms on the list.
If BvS bombs, that means no more cbms from wb?

I guess...

 

[The Shape]

This marvel can take a hit analogy is baffling if not nonsensical. Are people insinuating that a company is will to waste a 170 mill+ investment especially in this economy? The movie business is about making profit. Thats all that matters.

It just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Marvin]

I'm talking purely from a comic book movie perspective. I know that Warner Bros is killing it at the box office overall.

Yea I see what you are getting at.
I personally believe WB will always be making Batman and Superman films. Even when this cbm rush/craze fades and the audience isn't as enamored as they are today.

I think when it's all over, my grand kids will still be going to the theater for the new WB batman or superman release. Not so sure about the rest.
Especially with the law suit they just won.

 

[Black Narcissus]

It just doesn't make any sense.

In the mind of some marvel fans.... it does. t:

 

[smokethejoke]

This marvel can take a hit analogy is baffling if not nonsensical. Are people insinuating that a company is will to waste a 170 mill+ investment especially in this economy? The movie business is about making profit. Thats all that matters.

I'm not even talking about money when it comes to Marvel absorbing the hit. I'm talking about perception. If Captain America 3 gets the same praise as Winter Solider and Superman/Batman is another mixed reaction like Man of Steel, WB and DC are in trouble. If you reverse the situation, Marvel can shrug it off and keep doing what they're doing.

Both will make money, but less money by releasing on the same weekend.

 

[Jumpman]

Clark had been saving people since at least a while before the bus incident, given his age of 33 in the film, I'd say 18 years.

In the context of the story, are you telling me killing ZOD doesn't work? I mean, what isn't Superman as presented in Man of Steel...even though I personally don't even think that should be applied in this film, considering he ain't Superman at the end of the film.