BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 46

[sportjames23]

Supes isn't 'top of the heap' after MOS, probably never will be with so many other heroes out there in movies now. But the franchise is a legitimate player again...spawning sequels and so on, which is more than what could be said about it 7 or so years back. S at least it's 'made the roster', which should be plenty to be happy about.

Your optimism re: Superman is contagious.

 

[PacificBoy]

Supes isn't 'top of the heap' after MOS, probably never will be with so many other heroes out there in movies now. But the franchise is a legitimate player again...spawning sequels and so on, which is more than what could be said about it 7 or so years back. S at least it's 'made the roster', which should be plenty to be happy about.

I think he's still there along with Batman, Spiderman and Iron Man. It'd take an awful movie in BvS to well and truly knock him off the perch. I wasn't enamoured with MoS but it certainly put him firmly back in the public eye and got people talking about him.

 

[113]

Oh he's in 'public eye' but not moreso than Batman, Spidey of Avengers. Or even Spiderman. Not yet at least. Problem is, I felt he could have used a really good lone sequel to help him get closer...but I think Batman will steal the show if they're thrown together this early. But again, at least Supes is IN the show.

Bats will only "steal the show" if Goyer and Snyder adapt TDKReturns. And if they do that I'll walk out (not kidding).

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

I think some overplay the dislike of MOS and its connection to the "love" for the Donner films.

Hm, yes...if you don't like MOS, you're automatically a Donner-lover who wants to marry Christopher Reeve and spend your wedding days with him in Otisburg. The reason you're disappointed is because you expected the same "campy" movie all over again.

I still think Superman (1978) is the best movie, but I didn't want "Richard Donner's Man of Steel"...I wanted something new. I know some MOS-fans get angry if you compare it to the classic movie, but it's the only Superman movie you can compare it to.

 

[Iceman]

For this film I have no doubts about Cavill at all, am also confident on Affleck and I hope Gadot can be convincing as Wonder Woman (haven't seen her in much) as that's one of the characters I've wanted to see most from DC.

 

[snpklsdmbldr]

other superheroes are more popular lately compared to Supes since they obviously had more recent new movies. not to mention MOS is just the first movie. but with the big box office haul compared to other "first" movies, big sales in DVD/Bluray and not to mention it's still a hot topic among CBM fans is an early sign he's getting back.

also it's not "healthy" for DC/WB to bank on Batman all the time that's why they need other superheroes as well. at least Snyder said, even with Batman in the movie it's still a Superman sequel.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Snyder is the Superman fan is he not and a couple of years ago he was asked at comic con who would win in a fight?.

 

[Lencho01]

Hm, yes...if you don't like MOS, you're automatically a Donner-lover who wants to marry Christopher Reeve and spend your wedding days with him in Otisburg. The reason you're disappointed is because you expected the same "campy" movie all over again.

I still think Superman (1978) is the best movie, but I didn't want "Richard Donner's Man of Steel"...I wanted something new. I know some MOS-fans get angry if you compare it to the classic movie, but it's the only Superman movie you can compare it to.

Yeah, I've stated before what I would've liked to have seen out of MOS and very little of had to do with the Donner films, which I don't overtly like anyway. Though, I do like them more than SR, Smallville, and MOS.

Plus, there are plenty of people who haven't seen those films due to their age. But, have an overall idea of the character due to other forms of exposure he's had over the years.

 

[Iceman]

I think Supes might be going through a stage where he's not on top but he's permanently in the audience's consciousness as a huge dormant hero even when he's not firing on all cylinders. He'll always have a strong baseline popularity like Batman & Spider-man and even the likes of Iron Man won't stay above him for long (eg when RDJ retires). And with Cavill as Supes it will just take one top film to get him right back at the top again with the other big 2 (excluding team films).

 

[Fallen Angel]

Supes will forever remain a tier 1 character with Batman and Spider-Man.

 

[Lencho01]

I think characters like Bats/Spidey/IM will always be 'cooler' to most, but I think that as long as he's relevant as a box-office draw, and Supes doesn't fall back into being too old hat (and he shouldn't as long as they can keep making exciting movies with him), it's a major step up from where he was not too long ago and at least a good place to stay.

And it's helpful that WB was forced to make MOS since it seemed they might've not even bothered making another film for a long time again.

 

[Pants Under Underpants]

Bats will only "steal the show" if Goyer and Snyder adapt TDKReturns. And if they do that I'll walk out (not kidding).

Agreed. And if it has any form of Batman beating Supes I'm done. I love Batman and all,but I'm so sick of everyone saying he wins against everyone. Maybe he does, but it's not OK.

 

[SofNascimento]

Wonder Woman is going to steal the show!

Spoiler

 

[RectusErectus]

I imagine he will have some influence, as the Writers for Arrow have to run ideas by him; if the television division of the company has to seek his approval, is not that far of a leap to imagine that he will have some input in the film. Might not be a lot, but there's a chance maybe some.

Do you have a source for that? Anyway I think I read somewhere that Nolan is done with superhero films after S/B, since he started out as producer and is now only Exec. Producer, it seems it could be true. Which I'm glad about really since it means we can get some comic bookyness out of the films

 

[Lencho01]

Wonder Woman is going to steal the show!

Spoiler

You never know. It is her first time in a major film after all. In MOS, Faora ended up stealing Zod's thunder and she was just a glorified henchwoman. It could happen.

 

[113]

Or something like the animated 'World's Finest', maybe. But I doubt they'll make it a straight TDKR...it's going to primarily be a Superman movie, on paper at least. But I always got the sense that Snyder is probably more a Batman fan than any other comic character...and now he's finally gotten his shot, so he may have to 'restrain' himself from letting batman show Supes up so to speak.

I would love for them to adapt the animated World's Finest triple-episode. I loved that when I was a kid and I think Timm handled the rivalry perfectly. Bats was able to catch Supes off guard and toss him, Supes came right back with a body blow sending Bats flying.

Perhaps more importantly, those episodes showed both were intelligent and it's that mental/emotional battle between the two that is more interesting. I actually hope they barely fight in this movie at all. But knowing Snyder, and knowing that they've been advertising this movie at BvS I bet we'll get a lot of physical combat between them. Again, I just hope Snyder doesn't cater to Bat fanboys and disrespect Supes like Miller did.

 

[Jekecy]

You never know. It is her first time in a major film after all. In MOS, Faora ended up stealing Zod's thunder and she was just a glorified henchwoman. It could happen.

Yeah, but...Batman.

 

[Pants Under Underpants]

And it's helpful that WB was forced to make MOS since it seemed they might've not even bothered making another film for a long time again.

I don't think that's true about them being forced. In Goyer's very recent bafta lecture, he said that BE was already working on a different Superman film, and "all of the sudden, we were having this movie instead of that one. "

I think they just really liked the idea of a first contact story.

 

[Fallen Angel]

You never know. It is her first time in a major film after all. In MOS, Faora ended up stealing Zod's thunder and she was just a glorified henchwoman. It could happen.

Antje Traue is a proper actress though.

 

[Lencho01]

Yeah, but...Batman.

Only if he can understand a word he says and doesn't end up with a bunch of parodies.

I don't think that's true about them being forced. In Goyer's very recent bafta lecture, he said that BE was already working on a different Superman film, and "all of the sudden, we were having this movie instead of that one. "

I think they just really liked the idea of a first contact story.

Yeah, they were working on that film because the courts told them they needed to have a film in development/production or they'd lose the rights to Superman. If the courts didn't force them, I don't think they would've really bothered with whatever they were working on before Goyer and Nolan came along.

 

[SofNascimento]

You never know. It is her first time in a major film after all. In MOS, Faora ended up stealing Zod's thunder and she was just a glorified henchwoman. It could happen.

You actually make a valid point here. I can see Wonder Woman pulling a Faora, but that wouldn't be necessarily good.

 

[Lencho01]

Antje Traue is a proper actress though.

So? It's not like her acting was all the superior or anything. Her character was certainly more entertaining to watch and people reacted positively to that.

 

[Jekecy]

Yeah, they were working on that film because the courts told them they needed to have a film in development/production or they'd lose the rights to Superman. If the courts didn't force them, I don't think they would've really bothered with whatever they were working on before Goyer and Nolan came along.

I wonder who was working on it. Goyer specifically noted it was in development by a team, so I assume at least a writer/director was hired. Couldn't have been Singer as I think he long moved on.

I'm curious what we would have gotten instead.

 

[Iceman]

I think characters like Bats/Spidey/IM will always be 'cooler' to most, but I think that as long as he's relevant as a box-office draw, and Supes doesn't fall back into being too old hat (and he shouldn't as long as they can keep making exciting movies with him), it's a major step up from where he was not too long ago and at least a good place to stay.

Yeah, he's definitely in a better place post MoS. From the crappy late sequels to the original films, to the mixed bag of Superman Returns, at least now there is good potential again for the character. To me "the big 3" are overall equally great characters, obviously in very different ways.

 

[Lencho01]

You actually make a valid point here. I can see Wonder Woman pulling a Faora, but that wouldn't be necessarily good.

Yeah, it's depend on the character. I'd rather have her pull a Falcon in a way.