BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - Part 97

[Rorschach2012]

also for the record, I'm familiar with Brainiac from the comics and from STAS, and the STAS version is by far my favorite. Best take on the character ever IMO. We'd be lucky if the movie version of Brainiac was based on the DCAU version. DCAU Brainiac with the city shrinking hobby from the comics is what i want to see

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

I don't think you'd find a Superman fan that has seen the STAS version of Brainiac, and think there is any better way to portray the character. STAS really gave Superman fans imagination a boost in terms of ideas for what could be done in live action even.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

also for the record, I'm familiar with Brainiac from the comics and from STAS, and the STAS version is by far my favorite. Best take on the character ever IMO. We'd be lucky if the movie version of Brainiac was based on the DCAU version. DCAU Brainiac with the city shrinking hobby from the comics is what i want to see

Here's the thing though... Brainiac with the origin tied to Krypton poses the same problems any threat Superman faces that is Kryptonian in nature. People will again say that because the threat comes from Superman's home world that for some reason he is now responsible for it's actions, just as they did in MOS for some reason. Having the Coluan origin clears that up and also leaves open the possibility for later entries into the DCCU such as the LEGION and Brainiac 5. Using the STAS version has it's problems. I mean, in JLU when Brainiac 5 showed up, suddenly I was like, "how?" and the explanation was underwhelming. Those are just my feelings though.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I don't think you'd find a Superman fan that has seen the STAS version of Brainiac, and think there is any better way to portray the character. STAS really gave Superman fans imagination a boost in terms of ideas for what could be done in live action even.

(raises hand) I'm a Superman fan that dislikes the STAS Brainiac and the show in general despite the odd episode I though was well done. Frankly, you actually have many Superman fans that have problems with STAS from top to bottom. I for one was never satisfied with Timm's DCAU until the JLU seasons.

 

[Rorschach2012]

STAS is basically my favorite take on Superman in general... it made me a Superman fan, and it's what made me start reading the comics, that sucks you didn't enjoy it, i think it's perfect.

Coluan Brainiac is also awesome, I just prefer STAS Brainiac. STAS Brainiac would've been perfect for an origin story like MOS..

I'll be happy with Coluan Brainiac or STAS Brainiac, but I think the best option may be an amalgamation of the two

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

STAS is basically my favorite take on Superman in general... it made me a Superman fan, and it's what made me start reading the comics, that sucks you didn't enjoy it, i think it's perfect.

Coluan Brainiac is also awesome, I just prefer STAS Brainiac. STAS Brainiac would've been perfect for an origin story like MOS..

I'll be happy with Coluan Brainiac or STAS Brainiac, but I think the best option may be an amalgamation of the two

As I said, there was the odd episode I could respect, but... Yeah a Superman show where he's a weakling that gets thrown around and pseudo cuckolded by Batman is not my cup of tea.

 

[Rorschach2012]

It's a shame you can't get into it. The DCAU is pretty near perfection IMO.

 

[Rorschach2012]

[YT]k8Y5SLcBJks[/YT]

Does everyone else love this theme as much as me? The music on Batman Beyond was amazing.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

It's a shame you can't get into it. The DCAU is pretty near perfection IMO.

I think that the TWILIGHT and STARCROSSED stories are the only really good episodes of JL. Now once JLU came along (and there was more direct adaptation from the books) then it became a whole new ball game. I adore JLU and the Cadmus arc is incredible. I always have a certain respect for BTAS but... It never quite grabbed me, though Conroy as Batman is a powerhouse for sure. Still, even that show presents me with problems (people talk about it's quality but truthfully there are some terribly animated episodes and too many of them are with marquee villains. Then you have too many villains with sob stories, like, it's always really the fault of some overbearing normal guy in a suit and tie that pushes so many into villainy. Finally as time went on there was just the same problems that Batman has had in comics for me. He became more unlikeable, and he was made to look like the end all be all in comparison to his colleagues, who suddenly became useless idiots when he was around). I am happy that in general Timm's DCAU helped promote super heroes and took itself seriously as dramatic/action adventure entertainment, but waiting from1992 to the early 2000's to be satisfied by a product is a long wait, and despite how it seems that there is universal love for the Timm stuff, there are quite a number of fans that have reservations about the DCAU stuff. I'm not saying you can't like it, but for myself, It left me cold more often than not.

 

[Micromind]

STAS is basically my favorite take on Superman in general... it made me a Superman fan, and it's what made me start reading the comics, that sucks you didn't enjoy it, i think it's perfect.

Coluan Brainiac is also awesome, I just prefer STAS Brainiac. STAS Brainiac would've been perfect for an origin story like MOS..

I'll be happy with Coluan Brainiac or STAS Brainiac, but I think the best option may be an amalgamation of the two

I liked STAS.

I see BTAS and STAS continue to JL and then to JLU.

Both Batman and Superman evolve into more then what they were shown capable of doing in their respective solo animated series.

In case of Superman his power levels increase as he becomes more mature, it helps that Supes in STAS looks younger.

For Batman, he becomes more skilled, get better gadgets and can manage to stand out even when he is a part of a Superhero team, which he clearly couldn't have during his BTAS days.

 

[Naked Shia]

Not really, not on US television. Gargoyles started about the same time that BTAS ended. The mid-90s was when the big explosion of serialized storytelling on American television started. You can't judge a show's lack of ambition based on modern standards. It did a lot of things that were new and different. Just look at how well it stands up now in comparison to other superhero cartoons from that time like X-Men and Spider-Man. X-Men pioneered long format storytelling, but it's animation, voice acting, and maturity of writing were greatly inferior to BTAS. And I say that as someone who loved the show as a kid.

Metaphysician's post and yours prove one thing though: BTAS, as great as it is, didn't push the boundaries of the format when it comes to narrative. And again, it's not like television created serialization.

I'm always really surprised whenever people claim Timm's JL is the best incarnation of the team. IMO, it doesn't handle a candle to Morrison's run for instance.

Even if i do acknowledge the limits of its format, I really love BTAS, and I think it's a brilliant show. I can't say the same about JL.

 

[WBwins]

As a kid growing up I was so disappionted with Supermans animted apperances.None of them compared to the badass Fleschier Supes

 

[Naked Shia]

This is exactly how I felt about TAS supes as a kid as well.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

You had MaCduffie and some other writers doing their damnedest to try and rehabilitate the Timmverse Superman though in the JLU episodes, and they succeeded quite a bit in my eyes.

 

[Naked Shia]

JLU was an improvement on several things imo, but not when it comes to Superman. He was a jerk. I like a brash superman, but he was never smiling and showed little concern, other than proving Luthor is a thug. he was really unsympathetic.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

JLU was an improvement on several things imo, but not when it comes to Superman. He was a jerk. I like a brash superman, but he was never smiling and showed little concern, other than proving Luthor is a thug. he was really unsympathetic.

Really? I thought they wrote him with both strength of character and nuance, myself. He was wrong on some things from time to time, but that's refreshing. The CLASH episode has him at his worst with Marvel and Luthor riding his last nerve, but at the end you have Batman of all people absolving Superman by pointing out the way Luthor/Waller have played things. I think he smiled and joked too on the show enough. There were more than enough lighthearted moments for me, and more than enough moments of Superman being inspirational. I loved his lines to Hawkgirl about how he believes in redemption and second chances, but most of all, he believes in his friends. It's also of interest to note that the Cadmus Arc is about Superman and his position in the world, and has as it's final true villain a combination of Lex and Brainiac. And of course, JLU has Superman as a true power house. A force to be reckoned with in the world, where in STAS and before he gets knocked around by everyone and their sisters, literally. The Capt. Marvel fight, the Capt. Atom fight, the battle against the Nano-machines in the desert and on and on were a breath of fresh air for me. Here was Superman being powerful and competent, even when ole Batsy was hanging around. Again, YMMV but for me JLU was a treat that I still don't get why at least two other seasons weren't produced.

 

[Naked Shia]

I guess you're right, but i still think he didn't come of as very sympathetic. There is no denying he was finally powerful.

Anyway, I'm not as fond of the timmverse as most people are. even though I like JLU much more than JL (mostly because I think this new take on the question is quite interesting).

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I guess you're right, but i still think he didn't come of as very sympathetic. There is no denying he was finally powerful.

Anyway, I'm not as fond of the timmverse as most people are. even though I like JLU much more than JL (mostly because I think this new take on the question is quite interesting).

The Question was handled in such and interesting manner on the show. Frankly, he's the last character I would have expected them to use in the least, and as a fan of the Denny O'neil version, I was wondering how they'd get across the Objectivist reborn as Zen mystic searcher across. But they sidestepped that all and what they came up with, and Combs voice, was so entertaining. As a fan growing up of the X-FILES I laughed at his conspiracy obsessions. JLU really had what the best classic team books from MARVEL and DC had going on when I was a lad. You had the big guns having their place and their own arcs and relationships, but you also had those lower tiered members and team within a team dynamics. On JLU you had Superman, Bats, WW, John and J'onn, but then you had Green Arrow, Black Canary, Question, Huntress, Vixen, Supergirl, Capt. Atom having bonds and arcs and stand alone stories as well. Some complained about lack of focusing on the founders but I find that odd, coming from comics. I mean, no offense but there's a reason the AVENGERS always changes things up but keeps a handful of big names around too. Just the big guns alone could get boring, so sure, I want to see conflict between Darkseid and Superman but also give me Green Arrow on a mission with Supergirl and Capt. Atom. Give me Huntress and Question in the oddest romance of the show. Have the female members of the team rumble in underground MMA matches. I hope that a Justice League, Superman or Wonder Woman show can be put out there soon that comes close to matching JLU in writing and action.

 

[Naked Shia]

I liked the all star cast of JLU and how you had some less major characters as well. I enjoyed it a lot more than JL. I still have some issues with the writing of the big ones though. I would rather have Morrison's run as an inspiration when it comes to characters interactions.

 

[Steamteck]

Metaphysician's post and yours prove one thing though: BTAS, as great as it is, didn't push the boundaries of the format when it comes to narrative. And again, it's not like television created serialization.

I'm always really surprised whenever people claim Timm's JL is the best incarnation of the team. IMO, it doesn't handle a candle to Morrison's run for instance.

Even if i do acknowledge the limits of its format, I really love BTAS, and I think it's a brilliant show. I can't say the same about JL.

I way prefer it to Morrison's run myself. BTAS though I actually like less than JL and JLU but its still great.

 

[Steamteck]

JLU was an improvement on several things imo, but not when it comes to Superman. He was a jerk. I like a brash superman, but he was never smiling and showed little concern, other than proving Luthor is a thug. he was really unsympathetic.

We obviously saw very different series.

 

[Naked Shia]

and that's great. It would be sad if all of us thought the same.

 

[Steamteck]

and that's great. It would be sad if all of us thought the same.

Very true.

 

[Naked Shia]

Like I said, it's only my opinion and how I felt about the show, I don't think it's more than that. Maybe I would have liked it better if it was more in the vein of the first three season of BTAS, I don't know. I did like that the last part of JLU was more serialized though.

 

[Rorschach2012]

remember when Seth Rogen debunked that "no jokes" report regarding DC movies?

What if that's because Seth Rogen is playing Guy Gardner in Justice League?