BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 98

[zryson]

yeah I started reading them when I was maybe 6 or 7. (this is in the mid 60's btw) my friends and I would hang out at the drug store/malt shop and buy/read comics then trade them and read what your friends bought while sitting at a booth and drinking sodas. Yeah I know it sounds like a scene from some old movie but that's how things were back then.
Of course I wasn't smart enough to hang onto them. Oh if I had them all back today I'd have quite the collection.
We'd hurry home from school to watch Superman reruns (George Reeves) before dinner and then Batman would come on Wed and Thursday evenings at 7:30
I stopped collecting in the 90's but I still have quite a large collection of books. And every once in a while I'll go get a few out of the boxes and read them again. I guess I'll hand them to my grandson one day. My son isn't that interested in them.

Over the years I've met a lot of older collectors and many of the stories they tell me are similar to your experience. Kids would read the comics and quite happily pass them around with their friends (which is why many older comics might have the name of the person on the cover or on the inside front page; in other cases it was written in pencil or pen by a parent.) The Silver Age was an incredible era from what I have read when researching it through magazines and newspapers. Just the array of titles and the imagination involved was just really amazing.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Ben confirmed my deep suspicions that his entrance jettisoned Goyer's script right out the window (at least the character beats and major pacing and story elements). He almost seems dismissive of Goyer by saying the script wasn't written by some "comic guy".

The minute Terrio was brought in, it was to set a precedent of quality control and a way for Ben to somewhat micromanage the story elements that would affect his character thus knowing he'll have good character material to work with, but also seemingly sparring Superman and Cavill by still making him very much the central piece to tie everything in.

As much as I like Goyer, I'm glad that Affleck was brought into the picture and word is that his selection was entirely that of the WB heads. While it may still be premature to call it a victory I sense a major win for Warner Brothers here.

But... but... but... Daredevil!!!!


Seriously, I still like Goyer overall and I feel like he gets nitpicked to death by fans while other writers who produce a similar (and sometimes inferior) product often get a pass. However, I also feel like had the script for MOS been polished a bit more in a few spots, the movie might have become as well-received as we all hoped it would be. So I'm glad they brought in Terrio to either write an entirely new script or at least take what Goyer wrote and (hopefully) improve it.

 

[zryson]

About Goyer, its interesting to see how quickly opinions can change. I remember how it wasnt so long ago, that people were thrilled with reports that he was going to be the go-to-guy when it came to future DC superhero projects at Warner Bros. Even when Terrio was brought in for the script (Batman v Superman,) many were quick to point out on the internet that Goyer was still the main person involved. But now I think public opinion has shifted quite a bit to favor Terrio over Goyer.

 

[SofNascimento]

About Goyer, its interesting to see how quickly opinions can change. I remember how it wasnt so long ago, that people were thrilled with reports that he was going to be the go-to-guy when it came to future DC superhero projects at Warner Bros. Even when Terrio was brought in for the script (Batman v Superman,) many were quick to point out on the internet that Goyer was still the main person involved. But now I think public opinion has shifted quite a bit to favor Terrio over Goyer.

I've heard people being negative of Goyer way before MoS was even out.

 

[dhandler01]

Did you click on the link? This is a troll link. Some football video.

It isnt a troll link...I copied the wrong one I am sorry

http://www.newsarama.com/22251-cw-p...rk-crossovers-more-flash-arrow-spin-offs.html

That was the link I meant to post...I have no clue what happened.

 

[zryson]

I've heard people being negative of Goyer way before MoS was even out.

I think Goyer can be a really good writer, but like any writer nothing is perfect all the time. I think when it comes down to public opinion, it can vary so much. One day, you're everybody's favorite, and then the next day, maybe not so much.

 

[dhandler01]

Oh lawd! This cause its a fake link. The man was lying.



I love The Butterfly Effect. I think he was good in that Portman movie, he has great comedic timing which would fit with Flash, but I can see him as Hal.

I wasnt lying I made a mistake.

 

[The Sage]

As said many times, Goyer's a hit or miss writer. But he's normally hit if he's working with someone. And he's a good hand to have in these properties with his knowledge. He apparently fought with Nolan over elements in the Batman Begins such as Jonathan Crane having his Scarecrow mask. However, Goyer's much better suited with coming up the story or outline and not writing the final script.

I'm hoping the closer we get to the release date that we'll read an interview with Terrio, in order to find out what his mindset and approach was for the script, as well as his knowledge of the characters. I'm guessing whatever comic book knowledge he lacked, Snyder provided.

 

[The Sage]

About Goyer, its interesting to see how quickly opinions can change. I remember how it wasnt so long ago, that people were thrilled with reports that he was going to be the go-to-guy when it came to future DC superhero projects at Warner Bros. Even when Terrio was brought in for the script (Batman v Superman,) many were quick to point out on the internet that Goyer was still the main person involved. But now I think public opinion has shifted quite a bit to favor Terrio over Goyer.

Favor in regards to writing has shifted to Terrio, not launching DC superhero projects. Goyer's likely working in that capacity more than writing. He's one of the producers for the Constantine tv show that debuts this month and is working to get a Sandman film going. Wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't have a hand in getting the Suicide Squad film going too.

 

[zryson]

I wasnt lying I made a mistake.

I thought maybe that had happened. But when people were saying you had trolled, by posting that link you did I thought that's not in character for you and that maybe you had posted the link by accident. Which is what you said happened, so I think you explained yourself well and I hope nobody holds any bad feelings towards you over it.

 

[zryson]

Goyer is also attached to Batman v Superman as one of the executive producers.

 

[dhandler01]

I think if yo took he names off and put two scripts next to other people wouldnt be able to pick he Goyer one out. He is a polarizing name but he isnt nearly as bad as peole make him out to be.

I think he is a decent writer and a good idea man...I could not be happier though Terrio came in to fix the script though. This movie needs more than just awesome explosions and fights. It needs more story and better dialogue and those are not Goyers strengths IMHO.

Once again, sorry about the link snafu above...I sincerely wasnt trolling. (if I was I wouldnt use a Gopher Football link...and definitely not here) I thought I had copied the newsarama link from Facebook but apparently my tablet didnt copy the link and I didnt vett my post like I usually do with links. Mea culpa. I edited the post and reposted the link as you saw and am now embarrassed.

Appreciate the post Z

 

[SofNascimento]

Heh, I remembered the time Homer melted down a trailer that simulated a nuclear reactor control room.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Heh, I remembered the time Homer melted down a trailer that simulated a nuclear reactor control room.

 

[dhandler01]

Goyer is also attached to Batman v Superman as one of the executive producers.

I think that is a good place for him...he has good ideas and obviously has the ability to get a pitch to work.

 

[roach]

I am often amazed at how much people blame a writer for dialogue...I guess at the surface he or she is the guy writing the words but it's the writer's words through the prism of the director.
I know a lot of people were hating Goyer for the 'dick-splash' saying in MOS but unless you've read the shooting script (and I have been looking for it) you would not know if it was from Goyer...or an ad lib from Snyder or the actor.

It would be like going to a restaurant, ordering a steak, not liking the steak and blaming the guy who wrote the recipe and not the chef.

 

[SofNascimento]

Just blame EVERYONE!

 

[Fallen Angel]

I blame global warming.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

We all have problems but instead of blaming people, let's fix them.

And let's start with this:

 

[DC2739]

Yeah, this is now the third or fourth time Ben has refused to mention Goyer at all when talking about the script. The fact that he mentions Terrio not being a "comic guy" is very telling, as well as the balance between him and Snyder. With Goyer and Snyder together that balance isn't there and they have the potential to bring out the worst in each other. It's pretty blatant at this point, the rewrite had to be pretty major.

The mix of having a writer who was a huge comic book guy and a writer/director who was more objective about the material (along with a writer who straddled both worlds) proved to be a very successful formula for TDKT. Will be interesting to see how reversing that dynamic works for this movie.

The Nolan brothers, especially Chris, wasn't a comic guy and they brought Goyer in to help. But for BvS between, Affleck, Snyder, Goyer, and Geoff Johns, they have plenty of sources for material at Terrio's disposal. What's most important is the quality of the film and the script. This may sound crazy but I like the fact that Terrio isn't a "comic guy." What he is, is an accomplished academy award winning screenwriter. While I will always appreciate what Goyer has done and will do in the future, if I had to pick between Terrio and Goyer to write any script for any movie, I'll pick Terrio every single time. In terms of character or comic book specifics, that's all information that can be gained through research. And I'm sure everything that Terrio wrote was first approved by DC and WB since ultimately, it's their property.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

The Nolans weren't comic fans but they still read the comics while making TDKT. I remember Chris's brother in an interview saying after the wrote a first draft of The Dark Knight they got a copy of Joker's first appearance in comics and talking about how their direction was similar to that and they didn't even know it while writing.

Something like that.

 

[InJustice]

Ben confirmed my deep suspicions that his entrance jettisoned Goyer's script right out the window (at least the character beats and major pacing and story elements). He almost seems dismissive of Goyer by saying the script wasn't written by some "comic guy".

The minute Terrio was brought in, it was to set a precedent of quality control and a way for Ben to somewhat micromanage the story elements that would affect his character thus knowing he'll have good character material to work with, but also seemingly sparring Superman and Cavill by still making him very much the central piece to tie everything in.

As much as I like Goyer, I'm glad that Affleck was brought into the picture and word is that his selection was entirely that of the WB heads. While it may still be premature to call it a victory I sense a major win for Warner Brothers here.

Is there any reason to believe that Terrio's arrival was a result of Affleck? Besides, how do we even know that Affleck inserted himself in the creative process? I'm not even a Goyer defender, but I can't really see the connection if the argument is just "they worked in Argo." However, if Affleck himself said that he took on a bigger role with BvS, then that'd be a different story.

 

[The Ironstar]

Any thoughts?

http://www.newsarama.com/22251-cw-p...rk-crossovers-more-flash-arrow-spin-offs.html

CW President Teases Inter-Network Crossovers, More FLASH/ ARROW Spin-Offs

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

I wasnt lying I made a mistake.

He owes you an apology

 

[Rorschach2012]

Any thoughts?

http://www.newsarama.com/22251-cw-p...rk-crossovers-more-flash-arrow-spin-offs.html

I think it'd be stupid for Titans to be unconnected to Flash/Arrow. Arrow has already introduced A Brother Blood, HIVE, and Deathstroke. Wally West is about to be brought on The Flash series, and Roy Harper has been established for a while now.

It'd be dumb to not connect Titans to Arrow/Flash