BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 99

[ArmsHeldOut]

Over the top action and violence, over use of slo-mo, impossible wire-fu from characters who are supposed to be totally normal humans (and in one case overweight and out of shape), and a super cliche pop song soundtrack are the epitome of dark and serious?

You're ignoring other aspects of the film which were principal in setting its dark tone: the environment, the dialogue, thematic and emotional resonance conveyed through various members of the ensemble cast. Sure, there's plenty of action and violence, but that doesn't necessarily equate with being "goofy." When I think of goofy or kitschy, something like Guardians of the Galaxy comes to mind.

 

[SofNascimento]

Deathstroke is the best DC villain in a live action thing since The Joker. They can't just no use him.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Brainiac isn't exactly a scoop. Once again, an educated guess.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

The cover for Justice League: Throne of Atlantis (from twitter).

That ass shot of Cyborg

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Deathstroke is the best DC villain in a live action thing since The Joker. They can't just no use him.

Speaking of Deathstroke in live action, Manu Bennett turns 45 today.

 

[The Question]

You're ignoring other aspects of the film which were principal in setting its dark tone: the environment, the dialogue, thematic and emotional resonance conveyed through various members of the ensemble cast. Sure, there's plenty of action and violence, but that doesn't necessarily equate with being "goofy." When I think of goofy or kitschy, something like Guardians of the Galaxy comes to mind.

I'm not ignoring them. But the elements I mentioned contradict them so much and so regularly throughout the film that the overall tone is fairly goofy. Putting dark and somber dialogue scenes right up against a needlessly one the top action sequence with a cliche 80s pop song thrown on there for good measure creates a really goofy tonal inconsistency.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

I mean there are really only 5 options and Brainiac is one of them. Not really a scoop

Seems just a logical guess and not a scoop at all.

 

[Pickleweasel]

Deathstroke will be in the DCU, I don't know why we are suddenly worrying about it just because he El Maybe says he isn't in the Suicide Squad

 

[roach]

I am extremely doubtful on the Justice League rumor. WB has been keeping these movies super secret. Anyone who would go to Latino Review I don't think would have access to scripts or synopsis for JL.

 

[WBwins]

According to the Law of the universe Elyambe will always be wrong.Therefore Braniac isnt the JL villain.Suicide squad will have Deathstroke

 

[SofNascimento]

Speaking of Deathstroke in live action, Manu Bennett turns 45 today.

That some supernatural stuff. That guy was great in Spartacus and was brilliant in Arrow.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Brainiac is my favorite Superman villain and one of my favorite DC villains so this rumor is impossible for me to ignore.

I want it so bad for him to finally be on the big screen. Anyone who draws up comparisons to Ultron, ***** please. Ultron is just the same old same old robot Skynet take over kill all humans ********. Brainiac is layered. He will destroy your world but first take a piece of your world to study it and learn about it. He's 10 times deadlier then Ultron. Ultron may destroy all humans, Brainiac would destroy the entire planet and steal a city from it.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I'm not ignoring them. But the elements I mentioned contradict them so much and so regularly throughout the film that the overall tone is fairly goofy. Putting dark and somber dialogue scenes right up against a needlessly one the top action sequence with a cliche 80s pop song thrown on there for good measure creates a really goofy tonal inconsistency.

Well, I never read the book, but I think that some of the elements you take issue with are sort of intrinsic to the superhero genre, specifically the action sequences. I didn't really have a problem with the music. There has to be some kind of balance, and I felt that some of the tracks were used to lighten the mood a bit.

 

[roach]

According to the Law of the universe Elyambe will always be wrong.Therefore Braniac isnt the JL villain.Suicide squad will have Deathstroke

it's not that he's always wrong you just have to look at the facts.
Chris Terrio is not leaking the script
The WB execs are not leaking the script

so where is the lapse that allowed the villain to leak?

 

[The Question]

Ultron is just the same old same old robot Skynet take over kill all humans ********.

No he's not. Not even close. For starters, Ultron actually has a personality. He's not some cold unfeeling computer that logically reasoned that humanity should be experimented. He's an angry, passionate, vengeful person who hates his own existence and resents his father for bringing him into the world and wants to do the most horrible things he can imagine to punish him, with all sorts of Oedipal motivations and ****ed up relationships with his own kids.

Brainiac is layered. He will destroy your world but first take a piece of your world to study it and learn about it. He's 10 times deadlier then Ultron. Ultron may destroy all humans, Brainiac would destroy the entire planet and steal a city from it.

I agree with you that Brainiac is awesome, but I'm not sure how what you're saying here is an example of him being layered, or or how there's much of a meaningful difference between destroying all humans and destroy a planet and then keeping one city to study.

 

[The Question]

Well, I never read the book, but I think that some of the elements you take issue with are sort of intrinsic to the superhero genre, specifically the action sequences. I didn't really have a problem with the music. There has to be some kind of balance, and I felt that some of the tracks were used to lighten the mood a bit.

The whole story is a commentary on the superhero genre, so uniroinically having over the top action that clashes with the tone can't really be excused by saying that it's part of the genre.

And the elements I have a problem with weren't in the book at all. There were fight scenes in the book, but they were not anywhere near as over the top as they were in the movie.

As for the musical tracks, a huge part of the problem is that they were so obvious most of the time that they came off as cheesy. And more than a few of them were entirely pointless and really intrusive (All Along The Watchtower being a big example of that).

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

No he's not. Not even close. For starters, Ultron actually has a personality. He's not some cold unfeeling computer that logically reasoned that humanity should be experimented. He's an angry, passionate, vengeful person who hates his own existence and resents his father for bringing him into the world and wants to do the most horrible things he can imagine to punish him, with all sorts of Oedipal motivations and ****ed up relationships with his own kids.

So basically another villain with daddy issues? When has this happened before in a Marvel movie?

I agree with you that Brainiac is awesome, but I'm not sure how what you're saying here is an example of him being layered, or or how there's much of a meaningful difference between destroying all humans and destroy a planet and then keeping one city to study.

I may have gone overboard with te layer part. Also what would you say is more powerful. Destroying all humans while Earth lives or stealing a city on Earth and destroying Earth and everything on there?

 

[The Question]

So basically another villain with daddy issues? When has this happened before in a Marvel movie?

Villains with daddy issues are pretty common. Heroes with daddy issues are pretty common as well. And, like, the nature of Ultron's daddy issues is completely different from Loki. What's your point?

I may have gone overboard with te layer part. Also what would you say is more powerful. Destroying all humans while Earth lives or stealing a city on Earth and destroying Earth and everything on there?

They sound more or less comparable to me.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Villains with daddy issues are pretty common. Heroes with daddy issues are pretty common as well. What's your point?

Agree but this is the second straight Avengers film with someone who's upset at daddy. Then we got Thanos who kills for Death coming.

They sound more or less comparable to me.

Idk. In one case, Earth lives. In another case, Earth is blown up.

 

[DarkSentinel]

I get **** in this thread for being too pessimistic. I get **** in the FF thread for being too optimistic. There's just no pleasing you people.

Ever try going Goldilocks and meeting everyone in the middle? Cautiously positively skeptical.

 

[michael1975]

That's what happens when you confuse pessimism with skepticism.

The thing is I love DC comics. I been dying for Justice League film. I've wanted to see these characters go to big screen. I love all the characters from DC. I want to be on board with what DC is doing. The only problem is everything they are doing makes absolutely no sense. I feel like WB is taking short cuts to get to Justice League. There is wisdom in patience; taking you're time and building to something and not rushing. What I see is a lot of rushing.

Everything they are doing also seem chaotic and makes no sense. They going to do Captain Marvel before Justice League but Wonder-Woman is going to wait till after Justice League. I don't know but from my stand point that is plain dumb and makes absolutely no sense.

As some one who love DC Universe and wants to see these characters on big screen. I like all of you have been dying for a Justice League movie but at the proper time. My fear is that this will die quickly before it ever got started because WB couldn't be patient and take there time. I'm sorry but I think that is what will happen.

The vast majority of the audience don't read comics. There knowledge of these characters are is limited. If the audience feels confused, or feels like it's missed something or overwhelmed that will be that. You will lose you're audience.

Batman vs Superman will no doubt do well on name value alone. It's Superman and Batman together on big screen. However that doesn't mean people won't walk out loving the film. If it fails to grip the audience that will end Justice League and DC films right there. Because when they release Justice League it will flop. If it flops WB is going to stop making DC films for a very long time. That is why some of use are saying the things where say.

 

[The Question]

Agree but this is the second straight Avengers film with someone who's upset at daddy. Then we got Thanos who kills for Death coming.

Well, like I said, the nature of Ultron's daddy issues is completely different. Loki wants the respect and adoration he feels he never got. Ultron is just pissed off and wants everyone to share in his misery, especially the person he blames for his existence. One common thread, but completely different in the way that it's woven into the tapestry,

Idk. In one case, Earth lives. In another case, Earth is blown up.

So it's just different. Not sure how one is more powerful than the other.

 

[fake]

Villains with daddy issues are pretty common. Heroes with daddy issues are pretty common as well. And, like, the nature of Ultron's daddy issues is completely different from Loki. What's your point?



They sound more or less comparable to me.

And similarly, Brainiac's motivations are different from Ultron's motivations. You can debate all day whether one villain is comparable to another or not, but in the end it will be how they portray the villain on screen.

For example, when Avengers came out and Loki said "Kneel", everyone said "Now how will Zod look when he says the same thing", simple solution - Zod never wanted any human to kneel before him.

What I am saying is, we can all debate about how villains are similar to or different from one another, but in the end we all fall back to our default position, and your default position seems to be "Everything DC is doing will be a copy of Marvel"

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Captain Marvel doesn't have a release date....

Just the Rock and a writer.

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

not that i believe him, brainiac for JL would be a bad call because he's going to come off like a Ultron rip off. even though he's not exactly the same. it should be mongul with the warworld and some apokolips tech, ares, aquaman (initially) and the white martians.

starts off with Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Hal starts off as an astronaut who gets his power ring on mars after abin sur dies fighting in the martian civil war, while on earth ares tries to start world war III by antagonizing Arthur.

by the end of you've got bats, wondy, supes, flash, gl, MM, Aquaman.

squeeze in a new gods movie in between bvs and jl if you have to showing darksied as the one behind it all.

i guarantee the next thing el maybe says is something about cumberbatch being wb's first choice, only to have cumby end up getting cast as martian manhunter which would be awesome and hilarious at the same time.