Arrow Arrow General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[Gintoki]

While I would still not agree with the usage of the word "******", he wasn't necessarily referring to just the more malicious portion, but rather all of them. I assume you know that it is not the wisest to judge a fanbase or any group by the loud, trouble-making minority that gives the majority a bad name. Anyone that does, is in a greater need of a grip on reality than I am, and that is saying something. I have been off this stuff you call reality for a long, long time. I don't go near the stuff these days.

How do you know i was judging the whole group? Are you me? Can you read my mind? Are you sitting with me, while i type this message, and laughing? What makes you come to that conclusion? Do you have evidence? Did i ever used 'ALL olicity fans are ******s?' in my sentence?


Oh boy this is getting ridiculous. You're starting to make things up yourself, to make me look bad.

Anyway, I'm done replying to you.

 

[Gintoki]

You said Arrow is losing fans, I said that according to someone else, they are gaining viewers and that I do not think what you are saying is true. Where Arrow ranks in terms of viewership is not pertinent.

https://mobile.***********/VladaGelman/status/708368094213885954

 

[Daltonio]

https://mobile.***********/VladaGelman/status/708368094213885954

I love all the replies on that tweet from whiny Olicity fans trying to prove info directly from The CW as wrong.

 

[Slade W]

How do you know i was judging the whole group? Are you me? Can you read my mind? Are you sitting with me, while i type this message, and laughing? What makes you come to that conclusion? Do you have evidence? Did i ever used 'ALL olicity fans are ******s?' in my sentence?

I can only go by what you post. If you did not want to be misinterpreted, then you should have been more clear.

Oh boy this is getting ridiculous. You're starting to make things up yourself, to make me look bad.

I haven't made anything up. The only person that make you look bad is you. Repeatedly.

Anyway, I'm done replying to you.

Fair enough, good talking to you.

https://mobile.***********/VladaGelm...68094213885954 .

That was quick. I thought you were done replying to me. Once again, just because other shows have more viewers, does not mean that Arrow has lost fans. It means that the other shows simply have more viewers. A show can have the same number of fans or more than it used to, but other shows can still have more. From what the other poster (Famicommander) said, Arrow's rating have gone up from season 2 and 3 (I never said it was 100% true though, in regards to Arrow's ratings going up). I don't know how to make it any more clear.

 

[regnak]

Because sending death threats to KC and Photoshopping EBR's head on Amell's family pictures isn't worse.

Get a grip on reality homeboy.

Ding, ding we have a winner!

 

[Slade W]

Ding, ding we have a winner!

I worry what type of competition just took place if that is a winner. Not a particularly illustrious one, I would imagine.

 

[regnak]

I worry what type of competition just took place if that is a winner. Nor a particularly illustrious one, I would imagine.

Whatever, for somebody who says they don't like the Felicity stuff you spend an incredible amount of time and energy defending the crapfest. And I am glad you said you lost touch with reality long ago. It explains why you think the crazy Felicity fans are a minority. The amount of time they spend lobbying Guggenheim on social media has to be enough for some kind of obsessive compulsive disorder. I work a normal 40 hrs per week job. I wonder how many of these crazies spend more time than that on Olicity. I am certain that % is double digits.

 

[Slade W]

Whatever, for somebody who says they don't like the Felicity stuff you spend an incredible amount of time and energy defending the crapfest. And I am glad you said you lost touch with reality long ago. It explains why you think the crazy Felicity fans are a minority. The amount of time they spend lobbying Guggenheim on social media has to be enough for some kind of obsessive compulsive disorder. I work a normal 40 hrs per week job. I wonder how many of these crazies spend more time than that on Olicity. I am certain that % is double digits.

I probably wouldn't spend so much time defending the "crapfest" if people didn't spend so much time creating a "crapfest" here over it. There is more to the show than "Olicity", yet that is all some people speak about. People here are just as obsessive as the "Olicity" fans are.

Can you actually prove that the majority of Olicity fans are "crazy"? I doubt it, as I struggle to believe that much time or resources would be put toward such a study. So until it can be proven that they are all "crazy" (and by "crazy", I assume we are talking about the people who make death threats and who are behind other kinds of nastiness on twitter and the like), then I think it is safe to assume that it is the loud and troublemaking minority giving the majority a bad name, which is often the case and how it generally is.

 

[regnak]

I probably wouldn't spend so much time defending the "crapfest" if people didn't spend so much time creating a "crapfest" here over it. There is more to the show than "Olicity", yet that is all some people speak about. People here are just as obsessive as the "Olicity" fans are.

Can you actually prove that the majority of Olicity fans are "crazy"? I doubt it, as I struggle to believe that much time or resources would be put toward such a study. So until it can be proven that they are all "crazy" (and by "crazy", I assume we are talking about the people death threats and who are behind other kinds of nastiness on twitter and the like), then I think it is safe to assume that it is the loud and troublemaking minority giving the majority a bad name, which is often the case and how it generally is.

Uh no, you were the one to first claim that the crazies were a minority, That puts the burden of proof on you.

 

[Slade W]

Uh no, you were the one to first claim that the crazies were a minority, That puts the burden of proof on you.

Fair enough, I really couldn't prove that, although I haven't seen anyone prove that the majority are either. So, as it stands, I see no reason to see why a whole section of the fanbase should be judged by the loud, trouble-making minority who give the majority a bad name, as that is how it often is, and be referred to as "******s" as a result.

 

[regnak]

Fair enough, I really couldn't prove that, although I haven't seen anyone prove that the majority are either. So, as it stands, I see no reason to see why a whole section of the fanbase should be judged by the loud, trouble-making minority who give the majority a bad name, as that is how it often is, and be referred to as "******s" as a result.

I prefer to call them psychopaths myself. As for ones who are sane, if they do not speak up then they are only a theoretical concept. It would be great if today a legion of sane Felicity fans spoke up and told Guggenheim "No we don't want Laurel dead, we don't want you to spend so much time on romance and we don't want you to listen to the crazy people giving us a bad name." But not ever expecting that.

 

[Slade W]

I prefer to call them psychopaths myself. As for ones who are sane, if they do not speak up then they are only a theoretical concept.

Like it usually is, the loud minority stand out more. If you only judged fanbases and groups by the loud minority, then most fanbases and groups of people would have a bad name.

It would be great if today a legion of sane Felicity fans spoke up and told Guggenheim "No we don't want Laurel dead, we don't want you to spend so much time on romance and we don't want you to listen tot eh crazy people giving us a bad name.".

When we were talking about "crazy" "Olicity" fans, I thought we were referring to the ones that make death threats and insult people etc. If what you mentioned there is the worse stuff that they come out with, then they are no worse than lots of posters on here (and a I am sure on twitter also) who complain about characters and for the writers not giving them what they want.

 

[Omegabat]

It is not wise to judge an entire fanbase or group of people by the loud, trouble-making minority, that give the majority of people a bad name. It is somewhat like the way there are people who say that feminism is about hating men because some loud feminists do, when that is not what feminism is about and the majority of feminists do not hate men, but just want equality.



You said Arrow is losing fans, I said that according to someone else, they are gaining viewers and that I do not think what you are saying is true. Where Arrow ranks in terms of viewership is not pertinent.

Arrow has benefited from the crossover boosts though,it wouldn't be anywhere near the others without them.
Still I dont think you can deny that the show right now doesn't hold a candle to what it was just years ago. Strictly going by ratings then the current season>season 2,would you agree with that? Olcity itself I dont think people have issue with,its that almost everything revolves around Felicity now. Thea is the only exception but she's been essentially stuck in the same storyline for 2 seasons. The fight choreography does not hold up now,I remember when people considered it the best choreography in cbms and shows,these days not only are the stunts themselves bad but the fights have lost consistency. Just as an example Darhk beats Ollie h2h,then Ollie beats him,then Darhk beats Ollie, then Ollie owns him. The less that is said about the island sequences,the better and these used to be the best aspects of the show.
The pandering has gotten completely out of hand,there's no denying it. Guggenheim actually created a legit sequence involving Felicity's plant that was destroyed in S3 being inserted in to the Lazarus Pit and coming back to life. Let that thought sink in,he actually blew a portion of the budget,it was a proper sequence with music. Arrow is supposed to be gritty crime drama not Felicity Smoak's fantasies, if they want they can make a romance show starring Amell and EBR, many of the obsessive fans cant even tell the difference between the actors and the characters for me as long as they're gonna bring additional Batman/DC characters I will always be interested in giving the show a shot which is why I'm still watching. These days I'm hoping WB imposes a proper embargo on all Bat related characters and most DC characters. Also you're wrong about Laurel being killed because of some high decree,these people outright stated that they didn't know who they killed all those months ago.

 

[Slade W]

Arrow has benefited from the crossover boosts though,it wouldn't be anywhere near the others without them.
Still I dont think you can deny that the show right now doesn't hold a candle to what it was just years ago. Strictly going by ratings then the current season>season 2,would you agree with that? Olcity itself I dont think people have issue with,its that almost everything revolves around Felicity now. Thea is the only exception but she's been essentially stuck in the same storyline for 2 seasons. The fight choreography does not hold up now,I remember when people considered it the best choreography in cbms and shows,these days not only are the stunts themselves bad but the fights have lost consistency. Just as an example Darhk beats Ollie h2h,then Ollie beats him,then Darhk beats Ollie, then Ollie owns him. The less that is said about the island sequences,the better and these used to be the best aspects of the show.
The pandering has gotten completely out of hand,there's no denying it. Guggenheim actually created a legit sequence involving Felicity's plant that was destroyed in S3 being inserted in to the Lazarus Pit and coming back to life. Let that thought sink in,he actually blew a portion of the budget,it was a proper sequence with music. Arrow is supposed to be gritty crime drama not Felicity Smoak's fantasies, if they want they can make a romance show starring Amell and EBR, many of the obsessive fans cant even tell the difference between the actors and the characters for me as long as they're gonna bring additional Batman/DC characters I will always be interested in giving the show a shot which is why I'm still watching. These days I'm hoping WB imposes a proper embargo on all Bat related characters and most DC characters. Also you're wrong about Laurel being killed because of some high decree,these people outright stated that they didn't know who they killed all those months ago.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I don't think the show is as good as season 1 and 2. I think that is down to certain characters like Tommy, Moira, Sara, Slade, Shado amongst a few others not being replaced with characters as likeable or as interesting. The characters that I named there were liked by most fans. A lot of the characters on the show now, in comparison, have a mixed reception with fans. Ray last year and Curtis Holt, for example, have not been good additions IMO.

The ratings thing was a response to someone saying that the show is losing fans. I also agree that the fights are not what they used to be. I wonder is that because there was a change in personnel, or because now they have team fights and they are more difficult. I am not enjoying the island scenes as much either. They are not interesting IMO.

Despite me not thinking the show is as good as it used to be, I still think people here exaggerate and only focus on the negatives. The last episode for example, all people spoke about was Felicity, yet there was much more to the episode than Felicity. To be fair to people, most of them still gave the episode a high rating and did not let it ruin the whole thing for them, but it was still pretty much all that was discussed in the thread. I read that thread before watching the episode (I don't mind spoilers), and I expected Felicity to feature much more than she did, given that is what most people were talking about. In the end, it was actually a pretty good and fun episode, and Felicity did not feature anywhere near as much as I thought she would.

In regards to them not knowing who was in the grave, you can take them at face value if you want, but it is hard to believe that they did not have a fair idea of who they were going to kill off. They might have been telling the truth, or just trying to avoid answering the question. In November, there were rumours about DC looking for someone to play Black Canary in a movie. In the end, we should know the answers. The writers normally say when a character is not allowed to be used anymore like they did with Deadshot, Amanda Waller, Deathstroke, Harley Quinn, along with others. There was also Ted Kord, who was pulled from them late on.

 

[Omegabat]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I don't think the show is as good as season 1 and 2. I think that is down to certain characters like Tommy, Moira, Sara, Slade, Shado amongst a few others not being replaced with characters as likeable or as interesting. The characters that I named there were liked by most fans. A lot of the characters on the show now, in comparison, have a mixed reception with fans. Ray last year and Curtis Holt, for example, have not been good additions IMO.

The ratings thing was a response to someone saying that the show is losing fans. I also agree that the fights are not what they used to be. I wonder is that because there was a change in personnel, or because now they have team fights and they are more difficult.

Despite me not thinking the show is as good as it used to be, I still think people here exaggerate and only focus on the negatives. The last episode for example, all people spoke about was Felicity, yet there was much more to the episode than Felicity. To be fair to people, most of them still gave the episode a high rating and did not let it ruin the whole thing for the, but it was still pretty much all that was discussed in the thread. I read that thread before watching the episode (I don't mind spoilers), and I expected Felicity to feature much more than she did, given that is what most people were talking about. In the end, it was actually a pretty good and fun episode, and Felicity did not feature anywhere near as much as I thought she would.

In regards to them not knowing who was in the grave, it depends on how you view that. You can take them at face value if you want, but it is hard to believe that they did not have a fair idea of who they were going to kill off. They might have been telling the truth, or just trying to avoid answering the question. In November, there were rumours about DC looking for someone to play Black Canary in a movie. In the end, we should know the answers. The writers normally say when a character is not allowed to be used anymore like they did with Deadshot, Amanda Waller, Deathstroke, Harley Quinn, along with others. There was also Ted Kord, who was pulled from them late on.

Agreed on the loss of the characters but remember those characters were given time and development,they had their own narratives and perspectives. Thea is the only character who brings that now,all other characters either have no story or their story is tied to Olcity. Characters dont make themselves,the actors need something to chew on. Take H.I.V.E for instance,what's so special about it? all I see are common grunts with tactical vests or grunts wearing suits. The organization is generic to the core,Arrow writers had a lot of material to work with here but they chose not to use it.

Its not just about screen time,its about presence and importance. The entire episode had the shadow of Felicity's "feelings" hanging over it. Why are her feelings more important than a boy getting kidnapped,his father sending him away,the mayoral campaign etc. Sure they balanced it out somewhat but a third rate character like Felicity that will die with this show should never even be considered part of the equation in such circumstances. The show is about Arrow not her after all. I dont mind Oliver and her kissing,or making love or well anything that shippers fantasize about. But Donna Smoak? her relationship with Quentin? what purpose does any of that serve? why is she treated as an equal partner to Oliver in terms of narrative? that's the real problem. But even if you want her to be then what exactly is she bringing to the table? her ex,Donna,lame version of Brother Eye,botched attempt at ripping off Barbara Gordon,2 major DC heroes essentially serving as her lackeys and so forth. The character deserves to be hated on imo.

Doesn't that make it worse? they knew the execs wanted her off and they still chose to do nothing with her.Uncle Guggs doesn't look good either way.

 

[Daltonio]

There is more to the show than "Olicity", yet that is all some people speak about.

Could have fooled me...

 

[Slade W]

Agreed on the loss of the characters but remember those characters were given time and development,they had their own narratives and perspectives. Thea is the only character who brings that now,all other characters either have no story or their story is tied to Olcity. Characters dont make themselves,the actors need something to chew on. Take H.I.V.E for instance,what's so special about it? all I see are common grunts with tactical vests or grunts wearing suits. The organization is generic to the core,Arrow writers had a lot of material to work with here but they chose not to use it.

Its not just about screen time,its about presence and importance. The entire episode had the shadow of Felicity's "feelings" hanging over it. Why are her feelings more important than a boy getting kidnapped,his father sending him away,the mayoral campaign etc. Sure they balanced it out somewhat but a third rate character like Felicity that will die with this show should never even be considered part of the equation in such circumstances. The show is about Arrow not her after all.

Doesn't that make it worse? they knew the execs wanted her off and they still chose to do nothing with her.Uncle Guggs doesn't look good either way.

Again, I agree with a lot of that. I would prefer if more people posted their complaints in a similar manner, rather than just using hyperbole. What you said about H.I.V.E also applies to the LOA. What you refer to as "common grunts", I refer to as motiveless papier-mâché henchmen t:. They could have done so much more with both, but they chose to just focus on some of the characters (Ra's Nyssa and Maseo with LOA, Damien and his wife this year, with another member rumoured to appear). I also think Felicty's screen-time should be reduced, I do not think that she is interesting enough to justify it. She doesn't ruin the show for me though. Anyway, good post.

 

[Slade W]

Could have fooled me...

Not as badly as Marc Webb did when he made you think that his films were good . I am sorry, that was poor and unnecessary on my part. I just couldn't resist t:.

 

[Omegabat]

Again, I agree with a lot of that. I would prefer if more people posted their complaints in a similar manner, rather than just using hyperbole. What you said about H.I.V.E also applies to the LOA. What you refer to as "common grunts", I refer to as motiveless papier-mâché henchmen t:. They could have done so much more with both, but they chose to just focus on some of the characters (Ra's Nyssa and Maseo with LOA, Damien and his wife this year, with another member rumoured to appear). I also think Felicty's screen-time should be reduced, I do not think that she is interesting enough to justify it. She doesn't ruin the show for me though. Anyway, good post.

Yeah the League had Nyssa,Maseo and Ra's so I didn't find that organization to be really that faceless,they could have done better with Ra's but still they explored some part of the lore. With H.I.V.E they have not even bothered to tell us what the initials stand for,that's the epitome of laziness.

 

[Daltonio]

Not as badly as Marc Webb did when he made you think that his films were good . I am sorry, that was poor and unnecessary on my part. I just couldn't resist t:.

Ouch man, low blow. I can't even lie though, that was pretty perfect executed.

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

Season 4 is better than 2 it a tiny minority who dont like it

Viewers meansnothing since demo is more important

Again there was zero to little olicity question on the panel i wish people double check as they were two at most

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Season 4 is better than 2 it a tiny minority who dont like it

 

[Omegabat]

Yeah cant really argue with that.

 

[Slade W]

Ouch man, low blow. I can't even lie though, that was pretty perfect executed.

I must have momentarily transformed into my Marvel counterpart. Maybe my name should be changed to Wade W .

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

Season 4 is better than 2 it a tiny minority who dont like it

Viewers meansnothing since demo is more important

Again there was zero to little olicity question on the panel i wish people double check as they were two at most