Arrow Arrow General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[Primal Slayer]

What about Birds of Prey?

[YT]MciUgqXOBrI[/YT]

 

[chamber-music]

Someone needs to make Guggenheim watch Daredevil if he thinks you can't make entertaining court room scenes. If the scenes are flat it is probably because the writing is weak.

 

[Primal Slayer]

It's funny because he is a former lawyer but he doesnt even write the scenes to be that realistic or smart.

 

[Nathan]

Guess we know why he's not a lawyer anymore.

 

[Paradox1]

Didn't Guggenheim write the comic The Trial of Frank Castle? That excuse is full of **** I can't believe he even said that. Dude should just stop talking and crawl in a hole cause everything he's said has irked me the wrong way. Anytime someone feels the need to validate something to other people they know they ****ed up somewhere.

An excuse that would of made it alright for me would be just to tell the damn truth. Something like I couldn't find her voice so I felt it was better to kill the character than to continue to keep her on. I write stories, I'm sure a lot of people do and some characters for whatever reason you loose their voice. You can't figure out their motivations or a direction for them to pursue and they just end up being lost.

 

[Mike Murdock]

No idea. And true, he did seem to reference the expense in terms of being on location. However if from the get-go their plan was a female protagonist who was a lawyer & would be in court, then just build a set.

Keep in mind in the first season, she was just legal aid. There was less reason to anticipate significant courtroom scenes based on just that.

 

[Jason Kane]

Didn't Guggenheim used to write for Law & Order?

 

[Sysmatic]

Didn't Guggenheim used to write for Law & Order?

Yeah

 

[Batsfan1]

Keep in mind in the first season, she was just legal aid. There was less reason to anticipate significant courtroom scenes based on just that.

Then why make her a DA, fire her, then have her get the job back? Have a very great day!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[DeadFan]

Keep in mind in the first season, she was just legal aid. There was less reason to anticipate significant courtroom scenes based on just that.

True, though first season she was in court at least 2 episodes, and, as the quote below alludes to, by 2nd season -- which they were able to anticipate b/c afterall they were the ones making all the decisions about what kind of law she would practice & setting and situations she would find herself in -- she was made ADA.

Then why make her a DA, fire her, then have her get the job back? Have a very great day!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

Good point

 

[Mike Murdock]

Then why make her a DA, fire her, then have her get the job back? Have a very great day!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

Poor writing (well, that and they wanted Laurel to go all revenge-y on the Arrow). I don't think anyone disputes that things were poorly planned and executed poorly. I'm just thinking that Marc Guggenheim is probably being truthful that it was expensive to film. I don't see why he'd lie about that.

 

[Syncos]

No .. he got married to Chloe while he was drunk on Zatanna magic and decided not to get divorced and they ended up having a kid together.

Oh god. I must have blocked that out. Last thing I remember with Oliver was him and Dinah being all flirty in a teamup episode. I just filled in head canon I guess. I suppose it has been what, 5 years since the show ended?

 

[SpideyVille]

Oh god. I must have blocked that out. Last thing I remember with Oliver was him and Dinah being all flirty in a teamup episode. I just filled in head canon I guess. I suppose it has been what, 5 years since the show ended?

Yeah, it's actually going to be 5 years in a few weeks.

And that's the thing, they brought in Ollie when they introduced Dinah in season 7, and the episode ended with them flirting a bit as they walked away.

But once season 8 started, and they made Oliver a regular, they really screwed up his character. They appeared together in the season premiere when they found Clark in Russia, but then later that season he is basically responsible for "killing" Lex and then blames himself when Doomsday kills "Jimmy" Olsen. Then in season 9, after the guilt of Jimmy and Lex's death, and the news that Lionel Luthor killed his parents, and Clark knew, he basically went through a Laurel season 2 arc, and got so depressed that he quit being Green Arrow for a bit. He also tried to hook up with Lois again at one point. From there, he finds Mia Dearden and becomes Green Arrow again, and secretly develops a relationship with Chloe, which lasts through the finale, despite the fact that she left the show for the majority of season 10.

The closest they got to Oliver/Dinah getting together is a line where he reassures Chloe that the e-mails between them were simply "platonic".

 

[divan]

No .. he got married to Chloe while he was drunk on Zatanna magic and decided not to get divorced and they ended up having a kid together.

You mean he ended up with that show's version of Felicity?

Is Oliver cursed or something?

 

[SpideyVille]

You mean he ended up with that show's version of Felicity?

Is Oliver cursed or something?

Yup, it's a big reason why I laughed at the name Olicity when I first heard it. I initially thought, it makes no sense why this billionaire playboy, who has slept around before, during, and after the island, would ever be interested in another nerdy blonde girl. When they introduced the idea of them dating, I knew right away it was just to throw a bone to the fans because there's no way they do it again. And now, it's become very clear that they are doing it all over again, and this time it's worse.

 

[Batsfan1]

Yup, it's a big reason why I laughed at the name Olicity when I first heard it. I initially thought, it makes no sense why this billionaire playboy, who has slept around before, during, and after the island, would ever be interested in another nerdy blonde girl. When they introduced the idea of them dating, I knew right away it was just to throw a bone to the fans because there's no way they do it again. And now, it's become very clear that they are doing it all over again, and this time it's worse.

Chloe was also a better written character played by an arguably more nuanced and vulnerable actress. But Chloe wasn't nerdy at all. I'd refer to her as more of an outcast. Let's take a second to appreciate this: Smallville wrote romance better than Arrow and Smallville was a teen drama in origin and by reputation. Have a very great day!


God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[SpideyVille]

Chloe was also a better written character played by an arguably more nuanced and vulnerable actress. But Chloe wasn't nerdy at all. I'd refer to her as more of an outcast. Let's take a second to appreciate this: Smallville wrote romance better than Arrow and Smallville was a teen drama in origin and by reputation. Have a very great day!


God bless you! God bless everyone!

I'm probably one of the few people who will admit to actually still liking Smallville, but even I have to disagree with this ... they're both equally bad.

In all seriousness though, season 1 and 2, the Clark/Lana romance played out well and as expected. But season 3, it began to grow tiresome because it was clear they didn't want to put them together, but still felt that the romance was the key behind the show. Season 4, they pulled a Harry Potter and had their "sex/virginity" episode. Season 5 and 6, completely melodramatic with the Lex/Lana relationship. By season 7, I'll admit to wanting Lana to die so that we could be done with that arc already. Season 8, the Lois/Clark stuff seemingly came out of nowhere, but it was welcomed, although they kinda shot themselves in the foot with the Lana arc in the middle, which made it seem weird how Clark was in love with Lana as soon as she returned, only to lose her and be in love with Lois right away in the very next episode. Season 9, they kinda took their time, but they were playing around with the Lois/Clark/Superman triangle, which is always fun to see. Season 10, it was pretty good, with the exception for the wedding being a whole episode, and the Chloe/Oliver stuff, which never should have happened.

But as for Chloe, the reason why she worked early on was because Allison Mack had a way with words, and could always be convincing as she vomited long exposition that was needed to help the viewers understand. But after Pete left, someone needed to fill that void, and that's how Chloe slowly went from being the best friend no one thinks about, to being considered the "strongest and most inspirational woman" on the show, much like Felicity is viewed as by the producers and some fans.

 

[Batsfan1]

I'm probably one of the few people who will admit to actually still liking Smallville, but even I have to disagree with this ... they're both equally bad.

I don't agree or see that, I'm sorry. Especially in a season by season comparison.

In all seriousness though, season 1 and 2, the Clark/Lana romance played out well and as expected. But season 3, it began to grow tiresome because it was clear they didn't want to put them together, but still felt that the romance was the key behind the show. Season 4, they pulled a Harry Potter and had their "sex/virginity" episode. Season 5 and 6, completely melodramatic with the Lex/Lana relationship. By season 7, I'll admit to wanting Lana to die so that we could be done with that arc already. Season 8, the Lois/Clark stuff seemingly came out of nowhere, but it was welcomed, although they kinda shot themselves in the foot with the Lana arc in the middle, which made it seem weird how Clark was in love with Lana as soon as she returned, only to lose her and be in love with Lois right away in the very next episode. Season 9, they kinda took their time, but they were playing around with the Lois/Clark/Superman triangle, which is always fun to see. Season 10, it was pretty good, with the exception for the wedding being a whole episode, and the Chloe/Oliver stuff, which never should have happened.

It obviously never should have happened. But that was a symptom of a larger issue at the time. The original creators having left the show. Not to mention, even then, the show still developed why they had a relationship and what their similarities were as people. The Lex/Lana arc I though worked fine. It was a nice character thing for Lex and showing how he wanted to take from Clark and Lana got some development out of it too. I'll be the first to admit that the back and forth got pretty tiresome, but it still didn't take it's nonsense to the lengths that Arrow has.

But as for Chloe, the reason why she worked early on was because Allison Mack had a way with words, and could always be convincing as she vomited long exposition that was needed to help the viewers understand. But after Pete left, someone needed to fill that void, and that's how Chloe slowly went from being the best friend no one thinks about, to being considered the "strongest and most inspirational woman" on the show, much like Felicity is viewed as by the producers and some fans.

Not at all. Chloe was viewed as a close and loyal friend, but the show never amped up her character like that really, until the creators left the show. Have a really great day!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[Syncos]

Yeah, it's actually going to be 5 years in a few weeks.

And that's the thing, they brought in Ollie when they introduced Dinah in season 7, and the episode ended with them flirting a bit as they walked away.

But once season 8 started, and they made Oliver a regular, they really screwed up his character.

They introduced Oliver in season 6, and he was in 6 episodes that season.

 

[SpideyVille]

I don't agree or see that, I'm sorry. Especially in a season by season comparison.It obviously never should have happened. But that was a symptom of a larger issue at the time. The original creators having left the show. Not to mention, even then, the show still developed why they had a relationship and what their similarities were as people. The Lex/Lana arc I though worked fine. It was a nice character thing for Lex and showing how he wanted to take from Clark and Lana got some development out of it too. I'll be the first to admit that the back and forth got pretty tiresome, but it still didn't take it's nonsense to the lengths that Arrow has.Not at all. Chloe was viewed as a close and loyal friend, but the show never amped up her character like that really, until the creators left the show. Have a really great day!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

The thing about Smallville is that the romance made up a large majority of the show. They had their Clark/Superman movies, but early on, the romance was the bread and butter of the show. Even when they weren't together, the show was building towards bring Clark and Lana together, which suffered after a while because, much like Laurel and Iris and Lois, they didn't know what to do with these characters outside of romantic sub-plots.

The Lana/Lex relationship sounded good on paper, but I feel like it hurt Lana's character because it reduced her to a trophy. It definitely solidified Lex as a creepy and crazy guy, but that baby storyline was a bit too soap opera-ish for my liking.

As for Chloe, I feel like she was brought in with the same expectation as Felicity. Someone who isn't in the canon and is expected to be killed off at some point. I'm pretty sure that had Pete not left, they would have followed through with her death at the end of season 3. But she went from best friend to basically telling Clark what to do during his BDA phase, a meteor freak and then the unofficial leader of the Justice League and Doomsday's intended bride.

They introduced Oliver in season 6, and he was in 6 episodes that season.

Yeah, what I meant was that they brought him back in season 7 after he left to form their early JL.

 

[famicommander]

I'll complain about Arrow's last two seasons until the cows come home but I'd rather watch them on a loop playback for the rest of my life than watch any season of Smallville.

 

[Kar]

What about Birds of Prey?

[YT]MciUgqXOBrI[/YT]

Speaking of, a spin-off or an episode of Black Canary (Laurel) and Huntress teaming up under Amanda Waller would have been awesome.

But, two of them are dead for no reason and the other might as well be.

 

[haephestus]

Speaking of, a spin-off or an episode of Black Canary (Laurel) and Huntress teaming up under Amanda Waller would have been awesome.

Black Canary, Vixen and Nyssa would have been awesome for a Birds of Prey spin-off.

Heck, they wouldn't have even needed to actually show the spin-off. They just needed Vixen to ask Black Canary for help in Detroit in return for the help that Vixen previously provided Team Arrow. While in Detroit, Vixen's issue is somehow tied to the remnants of the LOA, so Black Canary calls on Nyssa for an assist. All three work well together, Laurel hears of a job opening in Detroit and makes the move. Laurel also convinces Nyssa to stick around and give them a hand while Nyssa considers her future (or at least until Sara returns to 2016).

If absolutely need be, they could have done most of that off-screen and simply have Laurel relate her adventures and future plans to Team Arrow when she said her goodbyes.

 

[WereCoyote]

What did ever happen to the Arrow's version of the Huntress?

 

[Nathan]

Still in jail I guess.