Arrow Arrow General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

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there are legitimate criticisms, every show has that

but a lot, not all, but a lot of the circular logic and "fair criticism" I see, especially in regards to the female characters, both on Arrow and Flash I read as "I HATE WOMEN"
 
there are legitimate criticisms, every show has that

but a lot, not all, but a lot of the circular logic and "fair criticism" I see, especially in regards to the female characters, both on Arrow and Flash I read as "I HATE WOMEN"


Total utter bs.
 
Its because the female characters are usually written as trite/stock 'female' characters.

They're only meant to be love interests and damsels most of the time. Yes, they have their occasional highlight of skills but overall they're merely there to serve the male hero/villain.

It's hard to even compare Felicity/Laurel/Iris/Thea to the ladies of Daredevil/Jessica Jones, let alone to other action drama tv shows like 24/The Americans/Mr. Robot/etc.

I will say, CW/WB/whatever has evolved a tiny little bit from their Smallville days.
 
There have not been many shows over the years that I have watched where there hasn't been a lot of hatred for female characters on them. Breaking Bad and Mad Men for example. Female characters get hated and criticised far easier than male characters do.
 
There have not been many shows over the years that I have watched where there hasn't been a lot of hatred for female characters on them. Breaking Bad and Mad Men for example. Female characters get hated and criticised far easier than male characters do.


But the breaking point for many was killing a female character and then having her ship the worst female character on her deathbed. This whole bs only came up when Felicity got criticized. The people crying misogyny were like mice when Laurel was catching hell for years.
 
But the breaking point for many was killing a female character and then having her ship the worst female character on her deathbed. This whole bs only came up when Felicity got criticized. The people crying misogyny were like mice when Laurel was catching hell for years.

In my post I was speaking generally and not just about this show. I probably should have made that more clear. I definitely would consider some of the comments made about both Felicity and Laurel over the years to have been misogynistic (Iris too IMO). There have been criticisms that have also been fair too, of course. I thought the criticism of Laurel was worse, as I found a lot of the things people were complaining about her doing to be understandable on her part. Even though I did not agree with everything that she was doing, I still could understand why she was doing it and I felt bad for her. If she was a male character, I do not think she would have received as much criticism.

Even though I find her to be very bland and boring, I think that Felicity would not be criticised as much either for certain things if she were a male. Perhaps I consider the criticism aimed at Laurel to have been worse because I am a much bigger fan of the character than I am Felicity, I don't know.

Regarding more claims of misogyny been made now than there was with Laurel in the early seasons, that is very poor IMO. Most comments about Laurel in the early seasons were unfair, I felt. I guess there are some people who will only make such claims when their favourite character is on the receiving end of it, but don't care when it happens to a character that they do not like. I have seen people make such claims against the show on twitter following Laurel death though.
 
The way Shado and Laurel died helpless there is a much stronger argument for the show runners being misogynistic that those criticizing them. You can a woman trussed up, you have one killed, but both at the same time is very bad form. Especially when men get heroic deaths like Captain Cold.
 
Don't forget about Sara's death that was pointless, could she have gone like a warrior, cmon.
 
The way Shado and Laurel died helpless there is a much stronger argument for the show runners being misogynistic that those criticizing them. You can a woman trussed up, you have one killed, but both at the same time is very bad form. Especially when men get heroic deaths like Captain Cold.

Don't foret Ruve's death. Despite being the co-villain of the season, she killed whilst being captured and helplessly tied up by a minor, recurring villain who showed up out-of-the-blue.


Regarding the criticisms leveled against Laurel and Felicity, there is a marked difference in terms of subject matter. With Laurel, it essentially boiled down to the critics wanting her character to behave and act perfectly (i.e. already fully trained/poised to become the Black Canary, not making irrational decisions and/or misattributing blame out of grief, etc).

In contrast, with Felicity, the main complaint being made is more of an undue focus. Personally, I feel this criticism holds the most merit. Back in Seasons 1 and 2, Arrow pretty much set up a formula where side characters do not get much screen time and where they do get focus and development, it generally lends itself to the Oliver and/or the overarching plot; or at most is in the odd episode. In other words, while there is a large cast, Arrow is not per say an ensemble show. Then, beginning around Season 3, Felicity's growth as a character changed this dynamic up with her getting much more time and focus; taking time away from Oliver, at a pace that outstrips the other side characters, and in fact to the point said side characters rarely get any storylines at all.

In a way, the situation with Felicity is akin to Wesley Crusher on Star Trek TNG.
 
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If anything, embargoing at this point is just stupid, especially if they going to have 2 Flashes of the same name, one headlining his own tv show and the other his own movie.
 
If anything, embargoing at this point is just stupid, especially if they going to have 2 Flashes of the same name, one headlining his own tv show and the other his own movie.

The Flash is lucky to be on the air. It came out just before Warner Bros decided to begin their Cinematic Universe. There was a Wonder Woman pilot not long ago that thankfully failed.
 
A while back it was Tom Cavanagh, now it's Willa Holland's turn to whine. :whatever:

I'm pretty sure most people would rather see Ayer's Suicide Squad than Arrow's cheap, mediocre version. But even more important, Tom and Willa seem to forget that these movies shoot for several months, meaning someone like Grant Gustin would have less time to shoot the tv show, therefore, a shorter season of The Flash, which hurts the interests of the CW.

And after ruining Huntress, Black Canary... thank goodness the DCEU could give these characters another chance to shine like they should.
 
Even though I agree that Arrow hasn't brought us the greatest adaptions, the whole point is that (or well the point should be) that having 2 sets of the same characters shouldn't be a big deal. Suicide Squad comes out in August, Arrow isn't even on when it comes out, the two characters wouldn't even be on air at the same time.

Even if they wanted to use GGs Flash for the movie, it would be doable without having to effect The Flash tv series at all. It takes about 3 months to shoot and if it is longer, all the characters aren't in every scene so it would be easy to accommodate schedules.
 
A while back it was Tom Cavanagh, now it's Willa Holland's turn to whine. :whatever:

I'm pretty sure most people would rather see Ayer's Suicide Squad than Arrow's cheap, mediocre version.

My complaint isn't that they aren't using the TV show's version. My complaint is that the movies seemingly won't allow the TV version to exist if they're using it.
 
I don't want one big universe like Marvel where television and movies are connected in name only. I like what DC is doing in that regard, what I don't like is killing off characters because they are being saved for a movie. It's either a multiverse or it isn't. Nobody would be confused by 2 Deadshots when one is Will Smith and the other guy.
 
Even if they wanted to use GGs Flash for the movie, it would be doable without having to effect The Flash tv series at all. It takes about 3 months to shoot and if it is longer, all the characters aren't in every scene so it would be easy to accommodate schedules.

It's more complicated than that, the CW shows shoot from July-April, a superhero movie like The Flash shoots for 4 months or more, is not convenient for the parties involved.

What WB should allow is two versions of all these characters, not just Barry, the Multiverse gives them that flexibility.
 
It would be more then possible, GG would have to work double time but it could work. Sarah Michelle Gellar managed to shoot Buffy in California and Scooby Doo in Australia, if she can fly half way around the world and do those two things, he would be the same.

Even Amell was able to do Turtles/Arrow.
 
It's possible to do the tv show and movie i mean the Rock Dwanye Johnson made I don't know three movies this year? Then did Ballers, Wrestlemania as well as keep up his insane workout schedule
 
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It's not the same a secondary role like Amell's on TMNT2 than to be the main lead and lets be honest, the movies are not there to please the interests of the CW, they will shoot when they want to. Anyway, is not relevant, but is going to be funny when they cast a new actor to be the DCEU's Green Arrow and see if Amell whines again, or remains professional and more elegant about it.
 
I've never seen or heard Amell "whine." He's always been professional. Honest, but professional.
 
Remember when Arrow's Fight Scenes used to be this good? I miss those days...

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I cant really agree with Willia, I guess from her perspective it's all DC and therefore Arrow should be allowed to use anyone it wants but I disagree. It's a show about Green Arrow, why does it even require Suicide Squad? they cant even get Green Arrow characters like Drakon, Komodo and Vertigo right. Arsenal was wasted and Canary might as well have been an amputee. I could understand her concerns if the Squad was a major fixture on her show but it wasn't. Besides if they were not allowed to use the Squad they still got Ra's and the League which ended up being a mediocre excuse to ripoff Batman stories. As it is the show's priority has been Olcity for the last 2 seasons, Squad or no squad.
 
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