Arrow Arrow Season 2 Episode 13 "Heir to the Demon" Rate/Review thread

[Human Torch]

Having Sara rejoin society would be tricky.

It was worldwide news that she died on the boat. We already had the coverage of Oliver's miraculous survival when he was found.

How would they explain Sara coming back from out of nowhere?

She could change her name to Dinah Drake.....

 

[Nathan]

I'm sure Felicity could provide her with a new identity.

 

[mr. peasant]

Having Sara rejoin society would be tricky.

It was worldwide news that she died on the boat. We already had the coverage of Oliver's miraculous survival when he was found.

How would they explain Sara coming back from out of nowhere?

Unlike Oliver, Sara isn't a minor celebrity/public figure who has the world's eye on her. Meaning, if the Lances choose not to report her return to the news outlets, the media probably wouldn't take notice.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I can imagine Slade putting Oliver in a position where he has to choose between Laurel and Sara. Unfortunately, I see him choosing Laurel.

The big thing will be if Ollie's progression allows him to save both.

You know, if there's anyone I want Slade to kill, it's him. I like him fine, but he's the only one I wouldn't miss.

I'd miss Laurel and Moira less.

Yeah,a lot of people are thinking that's the obvious outcome.I'm hoping they don't go for something that obvious.

I'm hoping Roy doesn't tell Thea for a while yet.That's part of the burden of being a superhero.I think it'll be interesting to see Roy deal with that.It's probably something he didn't expect to be as difficult to have to deal with.

I'd love to see them switch it up but maybe the best we can hope for is that Sara doesn't die but moves into a Birds of Prey spin-off, she's not gonna replace Laurel unfortunately.

The thing is Ollie hasn't had to carry that burden as he's had two people in on his secret for the duration and now has a 3rd. Plus I don't want Thea to continue just getting small scenes here and there, I like Willa as an actress and I'd love to see her have a more active role.

 

[Mikelus]

She could change her name to Dinah Drake.....

Yep, and then Dinah Laurel Lance will be the second Black Canary, mythos respected!

 

[JC00]

And then when Katie Cassidy is awful portraying Black Canary, mythos disrespected.

 

[Nathan]

You want the mythos respected, then it's time to bring in the JSA and JLA. Because the only reason for the 2nd Canary, was to have a young and spry Black Canary for the new generation as part of the JLA, since JSA member mama Canary was too old.

And since the DC reboot in the New 52, there is no Canary Legacy. There is one Canary and she is not named Laurel.

 

[Human Torch]

I'd be happy if they let it slip that the elder Dinah was formerly a Black Canary in the past before she met Quinton.You'd have your proto-Canary and more even faith to the mythos t:

 

[Primal Slayer]

You want the mythos respected, then it's time to bring in the JSA and JLA. Because the only reason for the 2nd Canary, was to have a young and spry Black Canary for the new generation as part of the JLA, since JSA member mama Canary was too old.

And since the DC reboot in the New 52, there is no Canary Legacy. There is one Canary and she is not named Laurel.

But she is named Dinah which is far from Sara. And she was married to Kurt Lance which means she could have changed her name to Dinah Lance and back to Drake after he was killed or whatever.

 

[Nathan]

Something that is easily taken care of, if you have her change her name, as part of starting a new life. And even if she didn't, Arrow is just another Elseworld Tale. So this Universe's Canary would simply be called Sara.

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

Unlike Oliver, Sara isn't a minor celebrity/public figure who has the world's eye on her. Meaning, if the Lances choose not to report her return to the news outlets, the media probably wouldn't take notice.

Um. It's not just news outlets. Sara is legally dead. Resurrecting 'Sara Lance' would require an explanation to the Govt.

And Sara would have the world's eye on her. She was one of the four casualties in a heavily publicized murder of a billionaire, where his son miraculously survived and recently returned. And the architect of that crime (Merlyn) was recently revealed. She's also the sister of the woman who prosecuted Moira Queen. The Moira Queen trial must have got worldwide headlines given the high profile suspect and the 503 deaths.


Unless Felicity hacks the Government and creates a new identity for Sara and new name, she'll be unable to re-enter society without some kind of explanation as to how she came back.. unless she lives completely off the grid.

Yep, and then Dinah Laurel Lance will be the second Black Canary, mythos respected!

Three Dinahs on the same show? That would be lame.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Because it wouldnt be creepy if she took over her sisters name....even if Laurel doesnt go by it at the moment, it is still her name. And using elseworld, then Sara could die and he could end up with someone who isnt a Dinah or Black Canary at all.

Just like in Smallville, Clark could have ended up with Chloe who was their Lois Lane before they introduced Lois and made her into the Lois Lane the reporter.

 

[Nathan]

Which I absolutely wouldn't have a problem with. As long as he doesn't end up with Laurel, I don't care who he ultimately ends up with.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Either way, I see no use in introducing a comic version of a character just to replace them with someone completely new and never have them become who they are in the comics. Just bad writing. If they didnt want Laurel to become BC then they should have (they should have done it in the first place) and either got a different comic character or just gone with a complete original character. You don't introduce Bruce Wayne and have some one else take up the mantle of Batman with him never becoming Batman.

 

[Human Torch]

Either way, I see no use in introducing a comic version of a character just to replace them with someone completely new and never have them become who they are in the comics. Just bad writing. If they didnt want Laurel to become BC then they should have (they should have done it in the first place) and either got a different comic character or just gone with a complete original character. You don't introduce Bruce Wayne and have some one else take up the mantle of Batman with him never becoming Batman.

My friend,I had the same belief,but lets face it.Sara is the spitting image of the comic BC (If casting on the look of the character alone counted,she beats all casting in every film/series),has the skill of the character and a better background story for BC than Laurel.

The only thing Laurel has in her favor is the name (which is dubious to begin with,since she's been called neither Dinah nor Drake for any real amount of time.)It's beyond simplicity itself to have Sara take the name Dinah Drake as her new alias.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Dye Katies hair back to blonde and she looks like BC aswell. Put her in the costume and she could probably look just as good as Sara does in it.

 

[Nathan]

Either way, I see no use in introducing a comic version of a character just to replace them with someone completely new and never have them become who they are in the comics. Just bad writing. If they didnt want Laurel to become BC then they should have (they should have done it in the first place) and either got a different comic character or just gone with a complete original character.

The problem is that you can never foresee how things will ultimately turn out. They cast Rickards as Felicity, for only 2 planned appearances. And because she just blew everyone away, she became a series regular.

With Cassidy though, it's the exact opposite. She isn't really able to do much with the material she is given, and gets continuously outshined by the rest of the cast. The problem is also that she often gets things to do, that most of the time don't contribute anything to the plot. And when she does, she's basically relegated to a damsel in distress, or just there to cause relationship drama.

The writers have simply failed time and again to actually give us a character to root for. And I put the blame partially on Cassidy, for not performing well enough, to get us to care in the first place. Do you think Felicity would be as popular as she is now, if it weren't or Rickards' quirkiness and comedic timing? Good actors and can elevate weak characters through their performance. And bad actors can pretty much ruin great characters, no matter how well they are written.

You don't introduce Bruce Wayne and have some one else take up the mantle of Batman with him never becoming Batman.

Well, it's a good thing that Dinah Laurel Lance doesn't exist in the current main comic continuity, isn't it? We still have half a season to go. There is so much that could happen. Sara Lance is officially dead. She could be living off the grid for a while. Laurel could potentially die. And Sara could take her name.

She could either take her sister's full name, and integrate back into society as Dinah Laurel Lance. Or she just takes her first name, and takes a new last name, and goes by the name of Dinah Drake. The Black Canary in the New 52.

So, as you can see, if the name alone is so important to you, there are ways to get in line with the comics, that don't require to kill off the current Black Canary.

 

[Human Torch]

And I just hasten to point out that I like Katie Cassidy.She's an attractive and talented woman.I think to some extent the general failing of her character as written gets blamed on her,but I think she's done the best she can with what she's been given.

I just think that the ship has sailed for her to become Black Canary at this point.You'd be hard pressed to find people that won't compare her with Lotz version,so she'd have the unfair pressure of living up to what Lotz has done with the character.

But,I still want Katie to stay on the show,and I want her to get a better storyline than she's been given.I think she'd be perfect as a villain.There is a lot of fun to be had with her there.The stories practically write themselves.

 

[Primal Slayer]

The problem is that you can never foresee how things will ultimately turn out. They cast Rickards as Felicity, for only 2 planned appearances. And because she just blew everyone away, she became a series regular.

With Cassidy though, it's the exact opposite. She isn't really able to do much with the material she is given, and gets continuously outshined by the rest of the cast. The problem is also that she often gets things to do, that most of the time don't contribute anything to the plot. And when she does, she's basically relegated to a damsel in distress, or just there to cause relationship drama.

The writers have simply failed time and again to actually give us a character to root for. And I put the blame partially on Cassidy, for not performing well enough, to get us to care in the first place. Do you think Felicity would be as popular as she is now, if it weren't or Rickards' quirkiness and comedic timing? Good actors and can elevate weak characters through their performance. And bad actors can pretty much ruin great characters, no matter how well they are written.

Yeah things change all the time but the writers choose to write Laurel this way so it is their decision and mistake on what has become of the character. No ifs/ands/or buts about it. They are taking the character off course and only they can put her back on the right road.

Well, it's a good thing that Dinah Laurel Lance doesn't exist in the current main comic continuity, isn't it? We still have half a season to go. There is so much that could happen. Sara Lance is officially dead. She could be living off the grid for a while. Laurel could potentially die. And Sara could take her name.

She could either take her sister's full name, and integrate back into society as Dinah Laurel Lance. Or she just takes her first name, and takes a new last name, and goes by the name of Dinah Drake. The Black Canary in the New 52.

So, as you can see, if the name alone is so important to you, there are ways to get in line with the comics, that don't require to kill off the current Black Canary.

Good thing that Dinah Drake was married to Kurt Lance so she was a Lance for a time being.

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

She could either take her sister's full name, and integrate back into society as Dinah Laurel Lance.

Dinah Laurel Lance (Cassidy) is a public figure though. Even if she isn't practicing anymore, she's been on city news and worldwide news for high profile cases.

Sara can't just take her name.

 

[Nathan]

And I just hasten to point out that I like Katie Cassidy.She's an attractive and talented woman.I think to some extent the general failing of her character as written gets blamed on her,but I think she's done the best she can with what she's been given.

I don't dislike her as a person, but I really don't think her acting range is as big as some would like to believe. There's a reason that people constantly point out she's basically got two reactions, and like 3 go to expressions. Blank face, angry face, crying face.

Whenever the script seems to call for some intensity, she basically looks like she's on the verge of crying. Every single time. And I wish I'd just be making this up.

A really big problem is also that, unlike Rickards and Lotz, Cassidy barely gives off a warm vibe. I don't know how to explain it, it's just, she lacks something that the other two women have. There's something to Rickards and Lotz, that makes you immediately like them. That something, that intangible thing, that Cassidy doesn't have. Heck, even Bennett has it. His Slade is completely flying off the hinges in the Island Flashbacks, but you still feel for him.

 

[b_boy]

....

A really big problem is also that, unlike Rickards and Lotz, Cassidy barely gives off a warm vibe. I don't know how to explain it, it's just, she lacks something that the other two women have. There's something to Rickards and Lotz, that makes you immediately like them. That something, that intangible thing, that Cassidy doesn't have. Heck, even Bennett has it. His Slade is completely flying off the hinges in the Island Flashbacks, but you still feel for him.

Sometimes I think she has the vibe of being the hot popular girl on highschool who seems to get things easy for her and wouldn't date someone that wasn't as hot and popular as her. Emily gives the vibe of the nerdy girl who would be friends with the nerd guys too, same as Caity. Maybe this doesn't get too well with the target audience of this show.

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

Arrow High.

Laurel is the hot, popular, stuck-up cheerleader.

Sara is the one trying to sabotage her and move up the food chain.


Oliver is the popular rich kid who's a player.

Diggle is his token black sidekick with all the one-liners.


Felicity is the shy, nerdy girl who takes off her glasses and becomes hot.

Roy is the thug wannabe.

Slade is the principal with anger management issues.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

I really don't care what the Black Canary's real name is. BC is not as big as Superman, Batman or Spiderman where everybody knows they're Clark, Bruce and Peter. It's the characterization that matters and Caity Lotz wins in that department without having to spend 3 or 4 seasons hacking in a character a lot of people do not like into that role because of her name.

Eh but this has been said a thousand times, I don't expect to change minds by being the 1001st person to say this. The people that like Laurel for BC just want her regardless of whether it works in the show or not.

They just want her and there's no point trying to talk sense into them.

We'll just have to wait and see but the battle lines are clearly drawn and I hope the showrunners don't continue to force Laurel to be something she's not when they have a perfectly good rendition of that character already. I honestly see her working better as a villain.

 

[Loki882]

I'm not sure how much of a "public figure" Sara really is. Yes she got mentioned in the news report about the boat sinking, but that's kind of it. Everyone was more focused on the Queen's, especially after Oliver turned up alive. I kind of think that many people would have forgotten about Sara (which unfortunately happens in real life as well). It will be interesting to see how they deal with her hanging around Starling City on a regular basis when she's supposed to be dead.