The Dark Knight Rises Batman 3: Where does the story go from here?

[Sharkboy]

Son-Goku? Who the heck is that? Never even heard of him. This character is not even half as famous or iconic as the likes of Batman.

Just because you haven't heard of Son-Goku doesn't mean he's not iconic. Maybe not to the western world, but to the other half he's pretty big stuff, think more like a japanese superman (but way cooler).Even if his iconic status being comparable to a world icon like superman or batman is stretching it too far (batman who obviously has an odd 40 years on the dragon ball franchise) however, My point being Goku is big big stuff in parts of the world, it's ignorant to dismiss him as not being an icon if you haven't heard of him.

Pretty off topic, but i thought i'd get out of lurk mode to call you out on that.

 

[The Joker]

Just because you haven't heard of Son-Goku doesn't mean he's not iconic.

Of course it does. Especially on a superhero message board, where even the most obscure characters can ring a bell. You could walk down a random street and ask anyone do they know who Batman or Superman is, and they'd more than likely know.

Go and ask someone who Son-Goku is, and odds are they wouldn't have a darn clue. They'd probably think it's the name of a Chinese takeaway or something t:

Maybe not to the western world, but to the other half he's pretty big stuff, think more like a japanese superman (but way cooler).Even if his iconic status being comparable to a world icon like superman or batman is stretching it too far (batman who obviously has an odd 40 years on the dragon ball franchise) however, My point being Goku is big big stuff in parts of the world, it's ignorant to dismiss him as not being an icon if you haven't heard of him.

Batman has more than 40 years on him. He's got bigger exposure, and a much wider fan base. He's an icon.

Pretty off topic, but i thought i'd get out of lurk mode to call you out on that.

So glad you did. I enjoyed refuting it

 

[Mr. Earle]

Show me a hero with the iconic status of Batman, Superman, Spider-Man etc who stayed dead for years, and I'll concede to your point.

Barry Allen, Hal Jordan.

 

[The Joker]

Barry Allen, Hal Jordan.

Covered this above. Flash and Green Lantern have been several different people over the years.

 

[Mr. Earle]

It doesnt matter. They were iconic and major heroes of the DCU and their deaths were big events. Even Batman got replaced when he "died".

 

[The Joker]

It doesnt matter. They were iconic and major heroes of the DCU and their deaths were big events. Even Batman got replaced when he "died".

Of course it matters. Each different Green Lantern and Flash lasted YEARS. The gimmicky replacements like Dick Grayson as Batman, Ben Reilly as Spider-Man etc were just that, temporary gimmicks never intended to be long term.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Well if the death is permanent wont the replacement hero stay for longer than the gimmicky ones?

The fact of the matter is that there was a whole generation that grew up on them and then they died and were replaced.

Also, add Ted Kord/Blue Beetle to the mix.

 

[The Guard]

Any character can be written to die, be reborn, and it can always have impact. Doesn't matter if they're iconic. I'm fairly certain Batman was the last of the DC icons to be killed and brought back, wasn't he? My issue is, whether it can be done or not, The Batman works thematically better if he lives to fight on. Would having him die and stay dead set him apart from other heroes and their franchises? Kind of. Neo already did that. Many other movie heroes have had that angle.

But Batman's mission being unending, a constant, almost neverending sacrifice to fight a war he simply cannot win is about 100 times more compelling than him sacrificing himself once, even if it was, to say, save the world ARMAGEDDON style. Is that pretty much a cliche? Well, yes, in Batman terms. And its something a lot of heroes have adopted, much like Superman's neverending battle. But it's still more compelling as a whole. I feel like the second filmmakers simply start trying to be "different" for the sake of being different, and not for the sake of honoring a mythology in a slightly varied way, they've lost sight of one or more things that make the character great.

 

[returntovoid]

He can't die, he's the goddamn Batman! Iconic comic book character that's been there for 75+goddamn years and hasn't aged above 30 because it's a goddamn fictional world!

The Simpson's didn't end and neither did the characters age because it's a fictional world.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

"Things were always going to get worse before they got better."

"The night is darkest just before the dawn. And I promise you, the dawn is coming."

I believe TDK is the darkest this series gets. It's the second act. It's the one where main characters die or lose. It's The Empire Strikes Back.

 

[Lungrocket]

I am not rooting for Batman's death. But I would rather see the journey of the end of Batman's career (even if it happens earlier than expected) rather than just another episode that lacks weight and simply replays formula. When have we ever see the END of a heroes journey in a superhero film? That's different and unique.

And there's nothing saying RISES isn't set some years after the events of TDK (Doesn't have to be decades). Thereby giving the fans the room to believe he continued to battle crime during those years.)

Plus, again, this is what I am deriving from Nolan's comments. You don't say "seeing it as a story with an end, rather than blowing up the balloon or expanding the story" unless that's a "conclusion".

It reads clearly. He might not die. But it's not a "Batman will battle another day" comment either.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Nolan is just taking the same approach he takes to sequels and applying it, in larger form, to the series.

He claims not to think much about sequels. He likes to work in a one-shot format. Makes sense, then, that he would apply this to the series itself. Doesn't mean their can't be a fourth movie, just like their couldn't have been a sequel to Begins. It's just not in his mind, which is focused on making a satisfying third film which he assumes and expects to be his last.

 

[Lungrocket]

"Things were always going to get worse before they got better."

"The night is darkest just before the dawn. And I promise you, the dawn is coming."

I believe TDK is the darkest this series gets. It's the second act. It's the one where main characters die or lose. It's The Empire Strikes Back.

The dawn will be the finally of RISES. Not the entire film. If it was all peaches and cream, there wouldn't be any drama and conflict.

It would be boring. How do you top TDK? Go positively Shakespearian.

 

[Lungrocket]

Nolan is just taking the same approach he takes to sequels and applying it, in larger form, to the series.

He claims not to think much about sequels. He likes to work in a one-shot format. Makes sense, then, that he would apply this to the series itself. Doesn't mean their can't be a fourth movie, just like their couldn't have been a sequel to Begins. It's just not in his mind, which is focused on making a satisfying third film which he assumes and expects to be his last.

But Nolan has stated the only reason to do another one is to do something new or different or can he out do the others. He mentioned it, Jonah, and Goyer.

And you don't top TDK by going lighter.

 

[The Guard]

I feel like I read somewhere that Nolan and company said they didn't need to outdo THE DARK KNIGHT, and weren't going to try to.

Whether that's true...

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

And you don't top TDK by going lighter.

You don't top it, period. Not in the traditional sense.

You scale it back and make it more personal.

 

[Lungrocket]

He can't die, he's the goddamn Batman! Iconic comic book character that's been there for 75+goddamn years and hasn't aged above 30 because it's a goddamn fictional world!

"Unlike the comics, these thing don't go on forever in film and viewing it as a story with an end is useful," Nolan said.

 

[Lungrocket]

You don't top it, period. Not in the traditional sense. You scale it back and make it more personal.

Nolan doesn't agree...

with Jonah Nolan currently locked in a room, beavering away on Final Draft. “He’s struggling to put it together into the epic story that you want it to be,” admits Nolan.

 

[The Joker]

Well if the death is permanent wont the replacement hero stay for longer than the gimmicky ones?

Yes, of course. That's what permanent means. Temporary is just that, a temporary thing. Nobody believed for a second Bruce wouldn't be back in the R.I.P. storyline.

Ditto with Superman.

The fact of the matter is that there was a whole generation that grew up on them and then they died and were replaced.

Replaced several times. That's the difference. Batman has always been Bruce Wayne.

 

[Robin91939]

I wouldn't mind seeing Batman fake his death to end the film in his final act to save the city from whatever threat we'll see in the next film.

Then I'd like to see the very end of the film have Batman springing to strike to stop a crime to end the series, showing the Batman is still alive, guarding the city.

This would reinstate Batman's mythological standing as an urban legend in Gotham.

But having Batman actually die? No.

-R

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Nolan doesn't agree...

with Jonah Nolan currently locked in a room, beavering away on Final Draft. “He’s struggling to put it together into the epic story that you want it to be,” admits Nolan.

I wish them luck.

 

[Lungrocket]

If it serves the story, I don't mind seeing Batman die. I'm not rooting for it, nor do I want a death for shock's sake.

But Nolan's not that kind of storyteller, and I know if he did kill Batman, it would be done in a respectful manner.

 

[Gianakin_]

Nolan doesn't agree...

with Jonah Nolan currently locked in a room, beavering away on Final Draft. “He’s struggling to put it together into the epic story that you want it to be,” admits Nolan.

Epic doesn't exclude personal. BB was epic, albeit in a different way from TDK.

 

[The Joker]

That quote disturbs me a bit. I hope they're not trying to top TDK on the epic scale. So many sequels fail by trying to be bigger than their predecessor.

 

[Lungrocket]

Epic doesn't exclude personal. BB was epic, albeit in a different way from TDK.

i never said it did. Read more carefully. I UNDERLINED the part of his comment about SCALING IT BACK.

It should always be personal.