The Dark Knight Rises Batman 3: Where does the story go from here?

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I think it would be better if Riddler didn't get his hands dirty but has his henchmen kill for him. He'd be more a villain in teh shadows.

I wash going for that, but in a more sinister, personal fashion. He's like the Joker but faceless, cold and calculating. While the joker was a masterminded mad dog, he's more of the ruthless chess player; His victims put down impersonally like dogs rather than carved up with knives, and everything fits together into a clockwork -like plan that he only allows Batman to stop, if he can figure out how.
There could also be some ties to the Wayne family and/or enterprise. That way, we could merge both "Edward Nigma" (a name a bit to campy for the movies) and Hush together into a menacing whole.
 
BATMAN III

Villains: Catwoman/Selina Kyle-Main antagonist (Tho she's not a villain, but an anti-hero, but what the hell, she can't kick Batman's ass as she licks his lips)
The Riddler-Supporting villain

PLOT
Contains spoilers
After the events in TDK Batman's now an outlaw vigilante and the Joker's crime empire was just the beginning of the nightmare, mob work has ceased but the streets are now owned by the so called "freaks". Harvey Dent is dead and the city's hope has died along him, even the rich ones from Gotham city have suffered the consecuences, a vicious cat-burglar known in the underworld as The Catwoman has turned the caped crusader's life upside down, not only for Batman but also to his own alter ego. After Rachel's death Bruce has decided to re start his life, by meeting a beautiful woman, called Selina Kyle at a party. The GCPD and Jim Gordon get their own problems when a mysterious cop killer called The Riddler leaves a riddle on the body of his victims so the police can stop the next murder

Catwoman-Marion Cotillard
The Riddler-David Tennant



this is a great idea have catwoman maybe be a vigilanty two that way you are sure if she is good or not, in batmans eyes, maybe. also the riddler could also have a greater plan two kill all the people of power and influence in gotham. and as edward nygma or nash be running for mayor or DA if everyone in the city who has power is dead then they have to turn to him, complete control is what the riddler wants. ubber OCD. maybe oswald cobblepot can cameo as batman's informer to underworld. and riddler's final plan could be to release a bio weapon on the leaders by a bio terroist named pamela isley. idk? just ideas.

catwoman= charlize theron
riddler= daniel day-lewis
OC= bob hoskins
ivy= amy adams

joker in cameo= jonny deep, or ben foster, or joseph gordon-levitt
 
I think Batman 3 will continue to address these elements. I picked these elements because they were an integral part of both BB and TDK:

-Batman has a symbol for inspiration to Gotham Citizens. This is paramount. Both BB and TDK deal heavily with Batman as a symbol for Gotham citizens to use in order to become more upstanding, moral people.

-Batman's loneliness, Batman pushing the limits of his capabilities as a human being, and Bruce's struggle with never being able to give up the mantle as long as he lives.

-Catwoman (new love interest, and, someone Bruce can relate to, as she also maintains a duel personality as "normal person" and "masked person")

-Gordon searching/hunting Batman (this could bring the Riddler into the picture, as a hired hand in discovering Batman's identity)

-Freaks versus the Mob. I think there's a good chance Nolan will want to overpopulate Batman 3 with multiple villains. Escalation is a big theme. Freaks taking over Gotham is something Nolan is obviously interested in exploring, therefore, I think it's VERY possible we could see the return of Scarecrow, mentioning of the Joker, and other "freak" villains (Mad Hatter, Ventriloquist, etc.) in order for Nolan to show the mob has virtually lost all control of Gotham and that it is now in the hands of various freak villains.

-Alfred as a background manipulator of Batman's quest. Alfred is obviously invested in Batman as much as Bruce is.... he burnt Rachel's letter to save Bruce's hope of "a normal life".... what else is he capable of doing?
 
BATMAN: REDEMPTION. That's my thought for a working title, like how everyone thought Escalation would be the title for this new one.

I think the story will be about redemption. Batman has to be seen as a hero again, I don't think they'll have everyone hating him, I think it seemed alot of Gothamites loved Batman as a symbol of hope, I don't think they'd just give up on him. They'd maybe not believe that Batman was responsible for what Two-Face did, and that Jim would finally let it be known Batman is innocent and still Gotham's Hero.
Gordon won't let Batman take the fall, he didn't want to do it, I think gordon will figure out some way and work hard to clear Batman's name so that the Bat sgnal will shine again.

Also Gordon's the Commissioner now, he can stand on that rooftop and shine the signal proudly and not care what anyone has to say. I just don't want the redemption thing to take up the whole movie, it would be nice if they can wrap that story up in the beginning of the film and go from there, or if it does take the whole movie then they can have a nice dramatic scene towards the end of the Bat-signal shining in the sky again and criminals running scared and people looking up happily at it and then Batman standing in front of it. Like in that awesome pic from Jim Lee during Hush. I have that poster which they recreated for the Gotham Knight dvd.
 
Why do so many people want the Riddler to be a mass murdering psychopath? I think the Riddler should be a cerebral character whom is after something specific, and his plan is complex. Not just kill people and hint at his next target. Joker did that (though his clues were very blatant). Joker was a mass murderer. We've seen it. Our next villain should have a higher goal than anarchy.

Though I will say David Tennant would be my choice for the Riddler (good call on that one people who suggested him :up:)
 
I just hope things get better for bruce/batman cause the escalation/chaos is getting repetitive
 
Catwoman in on the man hunt of batman... aswell as other batman imposters who arnt as good as her... keep two face alive too.... have Joker get out of Arkham and let the inmates out to wreck things once again... have Two Face secretly in Arkham and start to finish what he started in TDK... eventually the people of gotham see harvey for what he is and batman for what he is... maybe Batman can go to Reese like he did to riddler in TLH to find out who Catwoman is


I posted this in another forum but it belongs here more so....

also I dont liek the idea of riddler being a killer... he's not really very vicious... just messed up almost pathetic and is smart besides hiring someone to find out who batman is.... someone already knows who batman is ..... if they do make him a killer he'd most likely kill reese to find out who he is since everyone in gotham know he knows who he is and he's wanted now........ but id be mad if joker never wormed his way out of Arkham to not let someone get rid of batman... heath was signed for 3 movies.... the 3rd would be boring without joker now... heath did the hard part for a actor by creating something amazing let another actor have a turn there are other good ones out there..... dont let the role of the joekr die with heath ledger ... he would want joker to keep going im sure it was his baby
 
Some bullet points and ideas
  • The movie starts with a look into Bruce Wayne's past when he travelled to Europe and studied with "The Flying Graysons" (at the time, an unmarried duo). During this time they teach him some basic arcobatics and fighting skills, when it is revealed the wife is pregnant she asks Bruce to be the Godfather of her child, Richard. Bruce departs, however, fearing he is getting too close with these people and heads to Tibet/China.
  • Throughout the first and second act, in present day, Bruce is being pursued by police and a "fake anti-Batman" Azrael, who is truly an insane ex-Green Berret named Jean-Paul Valley. Jean Paul is a sniper, who follows the police and Batman around, hoping to make Batman pay for the murders of the three police officers.
  • Over in Arkham, Two-Face and Joker share cells next to eachother, Harvey's pressence is kept secret from both the outside world and the rest of Arkham. They are watched over by a doctor named Harleen Quinzel.
  • The remainder of the mob is made up mainly of low-level enforcers, one being Anthony Zucco, who attempts an insurance scam with a travelling circus. In his attempts to sabotage, the flying Grayson's, save their son Richard, are killed. Bruce takes in Dick (16) as an act of kindness to the Graysons.
  • Two-Face escapes from Arkham following a massive earthquake ("No Man's Land"), and kills the Mayor during a series of riots over power outages and the widespread destruction of the quake.
  • Amidst Two-Face's return a series of murders is taking place, seemingly caused by the Joker, who is still in his cell in Arkham (think "Summer of Sam")
  • Two-Face eventually reappears during a riot, revealing the lies that Gordon has told the public about the Batman. Batman is redeemed, however Gordon is forced to forfeit his job to Crispus Allen, who hates Batman almost as much as Loeb did.
  • Azrael, feeling betrayed, turns his sights on Gordon, who he blames for the murders by association.
  • Batman investigates the new "Joker" murders, but cannot find enough proof to pin them on the Joker, who is still in his cell with no way out.
  • Eventually Dick escapes Wayne Manor, and hunts down Zucco. Batman finds him and convinces him not to kill Zucco. Dick tries to use Zucco's gun to kill him, but can't go through with it; he's too moral. He tells Dick who he really is. Fearing Dick's safety he hands him over to Lucius Fox in Wayne Tower so Dick won't become a target for his enemies.
  • Azrael eventually finds and targets Gordon's family, hoping to enact final revenge. Batman comes to stop him, and does, but in the crossfire Gordon is injured (in the shoulder) and Ramerez is killed.
  • Crispus Allen blames Batman for Ramerez's death. Two-Face, who has now taken control of some remaining Mafia members, eventually captures Crispus Allen. Two-Face says he will do away with Batman in return for legal protection. Crispus Allen agrees.
  • Batman eventually manages to track down the murderer, and it turns out to be Harleen Quinzel, the doctor at Arkham. Joker had been chipping away at her psyche, and now she fulfills his wishes from the inside. She also reveals that she was responsible for breaking out Harvey Dent, thus causing Gordon's fall from grace.
  • Batman contemplates killing the Joker, and even pockets a gun, going to Arkham to do it. However once he gets there he again realizes he can't. At that time Two-Face, knowing all about Harley Quin, ambushes Batman, and locks him in his old cell. Two-face allows Joker the pleasure of psychoanalyzing Batman.
  • Alfred realizes that Batman is missing, and contacts Lucius. Lucius, unfortunately, is unable to track him, since the widespread blackout is still ongoing. Dick convinces him to let him go, so Lucius outfits with several tech items, and a motorcycle helmut to hide his identity. Dick immediately goes and hunts down Gordon, who he knows communicates with Batman. Gordon knows nothing, but tells Dick about a series of Joker style murders he was aiding Batman on before he was forced to resign. Dick is pointed in the direction of Arkham.
  • Dick is able to find Batman in Arkham, and together, they defeat the Joker (who doesn't like guns, so don't complain about Dick's possibility of being shot).
  • Batman then goes to hunt down Two-face, alone. Crispus Allen also, feeling guilty for giving the reigns of Gotham to a madmanm also tracks him down. The two end up their, unknowingly, together. Batman defeats Two-Face, but not before Two-face mortally wounds Allen.
  • Before he dies, Crispus Allen exonerates Gordon by coping to his deal with Two-Face, and claiming that he set Gordon up as a power bid. Two-Face cannot credibly refute his claims, so Gordon is placed back as commishioner. Batman begins seriously training Dick, who he hopes can replace him one day when he retires.
I only like your first idea :grin:
 
Look guys... To figure out the third film first of all you have to realise the state of Gotham at the end of TDK...

The mob is crippled... They've lost their leaders, they've lost half their money, and the other half? Well that died with lau, and only joker knows where it is.

You also have batman on the run and in need of redemption.

You take it from there...
 
Gotham City is still picking up the pieces a year after the events of TDK. The mob still runs the streets, run by Sal Maroni who evidently survived Two Face’s attack. Though he is confined to a wheelchair, he fights hard to maintain control over the Falcone crime family.

The film opens up with some button men (Tony Zucco is among them) hired by Maroni overlooking workers at the shipyard unload a shipment of drugs. Several men in Halloween masks (Bill Clinton, nerds, monsters, etc.) subdue the workers and begin to place bombs throughout the area. Maroni’s button men rush over and a gun fight takes place. The mysterious masked men manage to escape after killing some men and blowing up most of the shipment.

The film then jumps over to The Mad Hatter in an abandoned warehouse. He has taken hostage several blonde haired teenage girls. Batman arrives and brutally takes down Hatter in front of the girls. When Batman goes to untie them, he realizes they’re more frightened of him than of their kidnapper.

Bruce Wayne attends a gala for Roman Sionis, CEO of a very lucrative cosmetics company as well as Gotham City’s new poster child. The two have known each other since childhood and retain their friendly rivalry. At the gala, Bruce meets Selina Kyle, a rich socialite who obtained her wealth via “playing the stock market”.

Later, Bruce uses Wayne Enterprises to look into Janus Cosmetics and finds several anomalies within the company’s quarterly reports. Bruce suspects foul play and opts to take a closer look. At night, as Batman, he goes to Roman’s penthouse only to find himself fighting against Catwoman who was breaking in to steal a priceless diamond from Roman’s safe. The two fight but she manages to slip away.

Commissioner Gordon is having trouble getting along with the new district attorney Janice Porter. She questions his methods when the MCU, despite no longer going to Batman for help, manages to make more arrests than ever before. Ramirez, due to her involvement with the Harvey Dent fiasco, knows that Gordon is lying about the case and that Dent killed the six people, not Batman. She doesn’t question Gordon too much, trusting his instincts in doing the right thing. We later find out that Gordon and Batman are indeed having secret meetings. Porter suspects this and asks for Detective Stephens to keep tabs on the commissioner and report back to her.

Zucco tells Maroni about what happened at the shipyard and it is revealed that it’s the 3rd time in a month that one of his shipments has been disrupted. Black Mask enters and shoots holds a gun to Maroni, telling him that he is responsible. His False Face Society (the men in the Halloween masks) follow after him and hold guns up to the button men around. Black Mask says that the mob’s days are numbered and pulls the trigger. The bullet misses Maroni purposely. Mask explains to Maroni that he can’t try to seek revenge for the sabotage of his shipments or the bullet won’t miss next time but he’ll kept alive so that he can provide a healthy competition.

Gordon receives a box on his desk the following day at work with a question mark on it. Inside is a riddle that’s answer is the number 182 (the address of the police department). The lobby blows up and many cops are injured and killed. Inside the box, Gordon finds several print outs of e-mails originating from his computer and sent to Arkham Asylum. Written in green on one of the copies is “Where do you hide a dead man?”

Gordon visits Arkham Asylum and goes to its subbasement. There, we see that Harvey Dent is locked up. Gordon tries to talk to Dent, trying to find out if he knows anything about the bombing. Dent refuses to speak to him.

As the film continues a mob war breaks out between Maroni and Black Mask. Both sides are being armed via a British gun runner known to the underground as Penguin. During the film, Batman confronts him at his Iceberg Lounge (the Penguin’s business cover) and receives information about both sides return for amnesty.

Batman and Catwoman frequently cross paths when he investigates Black Mask and his activities in the Narrows. We learn throughout the film’s duration that learn that she is trying to protect the Narrows’ from falling apart, saying that she “refuses to turn her back on a place that the world has long forgotten about.” Catwoman makes Batman question his actions and the gray area in his life, especially his constant evasion of the GCPD. Though there is a connection between the two in both parts of their lives, Batman works hard not to act on it.

The Riddler continues throughout the film to send riddles to Gordon and Batman, regarding the secrets surrounding Harvey Dent’s apparent death. Along with the riddles, he sends them copies of falsified coroner reports of Wuertz’s death and other incriminating information. Black Mask learns of this and contacts the Riddler, hoping to learn what he knows. Riddler doesn’t reveal anything, saying “a riddle everyone knows is worthless”, but he tells him someone who might: Ramirez.

Black Mask blackmails Det. Ramirez into publically declaring that the Batman did not commit those murders but that Harvey Dent did. Gordon is then thrown into a media frenzy, so he contacts Batman and tells him that he’ll need to end this mob war on his own.

Batman, through information given by Penguin, arrives at a meeting between Maroni and Black Mask. Catwoman appears with him, saying that he’ll never have to be alone in his fight against crime. He reluctantly accepts her help and the two spring into action, taking down both sides of the mob.

Meanwhile Riddler goes to Arkham and releases Dent, saying that the “cat is out of the bag”.

Catwoman corners Black Mask and reveals that he killed her sister in the Narrows, thus giving her a personal vendetta against Mask. Batman stops her saying that murder is a line he can’t allow her to cross. She ignores him and shoots him anyway, saying that the two of them can never be together.

Dent arrives and shoots Maroni, saying his reign over Gotham should have ended a while ago. Riddler eggs him on to kill Batman too, but Dent shoots Riddler instead and surrenders.

The film ends with Riddler hospitalized. Maroni and Black Mask dead, with the mob dying out. Catwoman is still on the loose. Batman is redeemed in the eyes of public and the GCPD. And Harvey Dent sits in his cell at Arkham, flipping his coin.
 
^ Too many cooks spoiling that broth.
 
Too many characters, more specifically, bad guys.
 
Gotham City is still picking up the pieces a year after the events of TDK. The mob still runs the streets, run by Sal Maroni who evidently survived Two Face’s attack. Though he is confined to a wheelchair, he fights hard to maintain control over the Falcone crime family.

The film opens up with some button men (Tony Zucco is among them) hired by Maroni overlooking workers at the shipyard unload a shipment of drugs. Several men in Halloween masks (Bill Clinton, nerds, monsters, etc.) subdue the workers and begin to place bombs throughout the area. Maroni’s button men rush over and a gun fight takes place. The mysterious masked men manage to escape after killing some men and blowing up most of the shipment.

The film then jumps over to The Mad Hatter in an abandoned warehouse. He has taken hostage several blonde haired teenage girls. Batman arrives and brutally takes down Hatter in front of the girls. When Batman goes to untie them, he realizes they’re more frightened of him than of their kidnapper.

Bruce Wayne attends a gala for Roman Sionis, CEO of a very lucrative cosmetics company as well as Gotham City’s new poster child. The two have known each other since childhood and retain their friendly rivalry. At the gala, Bruce meets Selina Kyle, a rich socialite who obtained her wealth via “playing the stock market”.

Later, Bruce uses Wayne Enterprises to look into Janus Cosmetics and finds several anomalies within the company’s quarterly reports. Bruce suspects foul play and opts to take a closer look. At night, as Batman, he goes to Roman’s penthouse only to find himself fighting against Catwoman who was breaking in to steal a priceless diamond from Roman’s safe. The two fight but she manages to slip away.

Commissioner Gordon is having trouble getting along with the new district attorney Janice Porter. She questions his methods when the MCU, despite no longer going to Batman for help, manages to make more arrests than ever before. Ramirez, due to her involvement with the Harvey Dent fiasco, knows that Gordon is lying about the case and that Dent killed the six people, not Batman. She doesn’t question Gordon too much, trusting his instincts in doing the right thing. We later find out that Gordon and Batman are indeed having secret meetings. Porter suspects this and asks for Detective Stephens to keep tabs on the commissioner and report back to her.

Zucco tells Maroni about what happened at the shipyard and it is revealed that it’s the 3rd time in a month that one of his shipments has been disrupted. Black Mask enters and shoots holds a gun to Maroni, telling him that he is responsible. His False Face Society (the men in the Halloween masks) follow after him and hold guns up to the button men around. Black Mask says that the mob’s days are numbered and pulls the trigger. The bullet misses Maroni purposely. Mask explains to Maroni that he can’t try to seek revenge for the sabotage of his shipments or the bullet won’t miss next time but he’ll kept alive so that he can provide a healthy competition.

Gordon receives a box on his desk the following day at work with a question mark on it. Inside is a riddle that’s answer is the number 182 (the address of the police department). The lobby blows up and many cops are injured and killed. Inside the box, Gordon finds several print outs of e-mails originating from his computer and sent to Arkham Asylum. Written in green on one of the copies is “Where do you hide a dead man?”

Gordon visits Arkham Asylum and goes to its subbasement. There, we see that Harvey Dent is locked up. Gordon tries to talk to Dent, trying to find out if he knows anything about the bombing. Dent refuses to speak to him.

As the film continues a mob war breaks out between Maroni and Black Mask. Both sides are being armed via a British gun runner known to the underground as Penguin. During the film, Batman confronts him at his Iceberg Lounge (the Penguin’s business cover) and receives information about both sides return for amnesty.

Batman and Catwoman frequently cross paths when he investigates Black Mask and his activities in the Narrows. We learn throughout the film’s duration that learn that she is trying to protect the Narrows’ from falling apart, saying that she “refuses to turn her back on a place that the world has long forgotten about.” Catwoman makes Batman question his actions and the gray area in his life, especially his constant evasion of the GCPD. Though there is a connection between the two in both parts of their lives, Batman works hard not to act on it.

The Riddler continues throughout the film to send riddles to Gordon and Batman, regarding the secrets surrounding Harvey Dent’s apparent death. Along with the riddles, he sends them copies of falsified coroner reports of Wuertz’s death and other incriminating information. Black Mask learns of this and contacts the Riddler, hoping to learn what he knows. Riddler doesn’t reveal anything, saying “a riddle everyone knows is worthless”, but he tells him someone who might: Ramirez.

Black Mask blackmails Det. Ramirez into publically declaring that the Batman did not commit those murders but that Harvey Dent did. Gordon is then thrown into a media frenzy, so he contacts Batman and tells him that he’ll need to end this mob war on his own.

Batman, through information given by Penguin, arrives at a meeting between Maroni and Black Mask. Catwoman appears with him, saying that he’ll never have to be alone in his fight against crime. He reluctantly accepts her help and the two spring into action, taking down both sides of the mob.

Meanwhile Riddler goes to Arkham and releases Dent, saying that the “cat is out of the bag”.

Catwoman corners Black Mask and reveals that he killed her sister in the Narrows, thus giving her a personal vendetta against Mask. Batman stops her saying that murder is a line he can’t allow her to cross. She ignores him and shoots him anyway, saying that the two of them can never be together.

Dent arrives and shoots Maroni, saying his reign over Gotham should have ended a while ago. Riddler eggs him on to kill Batman too, but Dent shoots Riddler instead and surrenders.

The film ends with Riddler hospitalized. Maroni and Black Mask dead, with the mob dying out. Catwoman is still on the loose. Batman is redeemed in the eyes of public and the GCPD. And Harvey Dent sits in his cell at Arkham, flipping his coin.

I am sorry, but I stopped reading when I saw Two-Face was in it. To me, he is clearly not going to be in a 3rd movie, and if he is WHY? Best part of his story is done, and Batman has so many more villains than Joker and Two-Face, but you wouldn't know it buy all the people proclaiming Batman has no more villains or just want to see them again (though they already had their moment and served their purpose).

New theme. New villains. NEW MOVIE!
 
If you read the whole thing, you'd find out that Two-Face really isn't a villain and that's it more Harvey Dent characteristics. He is actually there to personify the idea of redemption and shows that a person can go through tragedies and still pick himself up at the end of it all.
 
I don't think that Dent should be alive.

That said- I like the angle of Eddie Nashton KNOWING about Dent and the truth about Batman's innocence. That would be interesting to see him leaving riddles showing that he knows- kind of blackmailing Gordon and Batman into submission.

I see it as this:

The cops bring in private investigator, Edward Naston to find the Batman, and possibly I.D. him. Simultaneously, a new cop killer is on the loose- however all of the evidence points to it being the Batman committing these crimes--so much so that Gordon even is losing faith and trust in Batman.

It is discovered through more detective work by Batman that these clues that supposedly link him to the crimes, when reordered/reexamined, are actually clues to who the next victim will be- and even who is the mastermind behind these crimes. These clues are CLEARLY meant to be only for Batman's eyes and a challenge for "the only one worthy of the game!"

-R
 
Personally, I just want to see Gordon discover who Batman is the old fashioned way - old time detective work.

All the other stuff, Riddler and all that, sounds good to me. But I must say that I hope the Nolans continue on and finish this thing.

But Catwoman would be really, really cool!

BTW - all of you have great imaginations! I mean that, it's a compliment :yay:
 
I don't think that Dent should be alive.

That said- I like the angle of Eddie Nashton KNOWING about Dent and the truth about Batman's innocence. That would be interesting to see him leaving riddles showing that he knows- kind of blackmailing Gordon and Batman into submission.

I see it as this:

The cops bring in private investigator, Edward Naston to find the Batman, and possibly I.D. him. Simultaneously, a new cop killer is on the loose- however all of the evidence points to it being the Batman committing these crimes--so much so that Gordon even is losing faith and trust in Batman.

It is discovered through more detective work by Batman that these clues that supposedly link him to the crimes, when reordered/reexamined, are actually clues to who the next victim will be- and even who is the mastermind behind these crimes. These clues are CLEARLY meant to be only for Batman's eyes and a challenge for "the only one worthy of the game!"

-R

I am a fan of this interpretation of the Riddler, and if were used in the third movie, I'd like to see something similar to this.
 
I see it as this:

The cops bring in private investigator, Edward Naston to find the Batman, and possibly I.D. him. Simultaneously, a new cop killer is on the loose- however all of the evidence points to it being the Batman committing these crimes--so much so that Gordon even is losing faith and trust in Batman.

It is discovered through more detective work by Batman that these clues that supposedly link him to the crimes, when reordered/reexamined, are actually clues to who the next victim will be- and even who is the mastermind behind these crimes. These clues are CLEARLY meant to be only for Batman's eyes and a challenge for "the only one worthy of the game!"

-R
These ideas are nice and all, but most of them come off seeming more like good ideas for Gotham Knight II than for the sequel to The Dark Knight. Even my own idea, I feel, as spiced up as I could get it, misses the mark. I see what amounts to some fairly dead ideas; serial killer this and criminal mobster that. Truth of the matter is, outside of a few subplots featuring throwaway characters, Batman has not dealt with either a serial killer or a mobster in these films. His main thread, and moreover the main villains of the movie have both been terrorists or some kind, and affected things on a broader scale.

As things have gone so far we've had Ra's Al Ghul and the league of shadows (plus agents), who was a self-righteous genocidal manic, and Joker, who was a chaoic terrorist. If you use Riddler, or Oswald Cobblepot their going to have to be something much more than an idle "serial killer/obsessive complusive smart guy" and "urbanite arms dealer" respectively. They are going to have to rip Gotham a new one.

It seems to me the way things are going you either need A) some distaster of epic proportions (e.g. "No Man's Land", The Dark Knight Returns or "Knightfall/Knightsend") or some major character driven arc (e.g.Robin: Year One, Death in the family or "Batman: R.I.P"). Not saying those stories in particular are fodder for films, merely using them as examples to illustrate a point: as Batman stands he's not as easily made epic as Superman, in fact it's much easier to write a boring Batman story than it is to write a boring Superman/Spider-Man/X-Men story.

To me most of these ideas play it safe, in same way many superhero movies have. They lack umph and imagination. This is somewhat to be expected though, with the Joker "gone" who is there really. Well besides him, among the more popular choices there is Catwoman and Riddler. Catwoman is a mere jewel theif; a rich young lady who idles away her time and boredom ripping off individuals. Riddler is a narcisistic goofball, who can't help but con police and investigators to catch him. At the end of the day I don't see any thematic elements with them that truly lend themselves to [leading roles in] a movie. They are just to "meh".

A couple of thoughts on a few potential villains, not often discussed here.
  • Doctor Death - A name I never see mentioned at all, which is funny, because he is Batman's first villain. The man is nothing short of a Neo-Nazi, using poison gases and threatened powerful people for money and tribute. Modern incarnations, in stories such as War Games, reinvented him into a biological weapons specialist, who engaged in terrorism much similar to what is seen in the Middle East today. So certainly some potential there.
  • Hugo Strange - Is a psychiatrist who knows Batman's true identity. He again was one of the first Batman villains ever, and besides Joker and Catwoman, one of the first often recurring villains. An interesting story to look at for this character is Batman And the Monster Men, which could certainly prove to be a launch pad for characters like Killer Croc.
  • Azrael - Certainly in the comics he is depicted as the fake "anti-anti-Batman", a man who used Batman methods, tech, and even image, but failed to have the same moral compass as him. The main problem is he is mainly limited to Batman himself, however the idea of a Batman more ruthless, whose willing to go throughout the criminal underworld a cross the line Batman isn't willing to certainly makes for an interesting arc.
  • Prometheus - Similar to Azrael, but on a large scale.
  • Zodiac Master - The Zodiac Master was an older Batman villain with a somewhat interesting hook; he predicts natural and man made disasters, but as it turns out, he himself orchestrates all of them: think "Mr. Glass" (from Unbreakable) versus Batman (could also be an interesting new take on the Riddler).
  • The Wrath - The Wrath is certainly an interesting anti-Batman as he has personal ties to Gordon. Gordon, when younger, killed his parents. Wrath becomes an anti-Batman who kills and hunts cops and officials instead of criminals. Rooting out corruption from the inside out, rather than the outside in.
  • The Black Glove - A recent storyline "Batman R.I.P", introduces this colorful group who claims they can destroy Batman better than anyone. I'd expound on this more, but the story is far from over. Best to wait and see what develops, but it has potential.
  • Maxie Zeus - A self proclaimed God, who using electrical based technology to commit his crimes. Perhaps he could land Gotham in a perminant blackout.
 
I don't think that Dent should be alive.

That said- I like the angle of Eddie Nashton KNOWING about Dent and the truth about Batman's innocence. That would be interesting to see him leaving riddles showing that he knows- kind of blackmailing Gordon and Batman into submission.

I see it as this:

The cops bring in private investigator, Edward Naston to find the Batman, and possibly I.D. him. Simultaneously, a new cop killer is on the loose- however all of the evidence points to it being the Batman committing these crimes--so much so that Gordon even is losing faith and trust in Batman.

It is discovered through more detective work by Batman that these clues that supposedly link him to the crimes, when reordered/reexamined, are actually clues to who the next victim will be- and even who is the mastermind behind these crimes. These clues are CLEARLY meant to be only for Batman's eyes and a challenge for "the only one worthy of the game!"

-R


That sounds nice and all...but i'd like to see a bit more of The Riddler doing more than just laying out clues...and blackmail isn't really a very suitable thing for a super-genius...I would think he'd feel he's above such things. I'd like to see him do more along the lines of riddles that are basically death trap...at least physically.

On the side i'd like to see him use his genius to extract information from certain people (like gordon about batman) and also learn Batman's identity.
 
Why do so many people want the Riddler to be a mass murdering psychopath? I think the Riddler should be a cerebral character whom is after something specific, and his plan is complex. Not just kill people and hint at his next target. Joker did that (though his clues were very blatant). Joker was a mass murderer. We've seen it. Our next villain should have a higher goal than anarchy.

Though I will say David Tennant would be my choice for the Riddler (good call on that one people who suggested him :up:)
i agree. Ra's wanted justice through the complete destruction of Gotham, and Joker wanted to raise the bar for crime in Gotham... I'd like to see the next villain make it personal with Batman. Batman hasn't specifically seen that yet.
 
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