The Dark Knight Rises Batman 3: Where does the story go from here?

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Who fills this new and even larger void? The Freaks. Costumed crazies are the new face of crime, a movement inspired by the Joker.

They could pay mention to how much his chaotic games influenced their rise to power.

Mad Hatter is a pedophile rapist.

Black Mask, the Penguin and the Ventriloquist are mob leaders.

Scarecrow has his gang.

The Riddler is a petty criminal that uses riddles to frustrate and befuddle the cops.

For a while they work alone, isolated. The Cops and Batman have success against them. Crime, in spite of the new growing wave of insane criminals, is falling.

But then things change. It becomes apparent that these small time freaks are being manipulated by a force. A force that has a personal vendetta against Batman.

Take the Hush story line - and I would replace Talia Al Ghul for Hush. Include Catwoman as well, weaving her in and out of the story playing both sides of the law. She steals one nights, plays informant for Batman the next.

This, IMO, is the best way to take this story.


This is kinda what I had in mind in one of my ideas above.

I would prefer it if all the freak mobs are all battling to be the biggest mob in the city...rather than joining forces or anything.

I think Catwoman works best in the way we've both mentioned...no doubt about it. She doesn't really work as just a heroine or just a villain. She has more depth than that.

I do disagree with the Riddler comment. Yes...he is no match for Batman when it comes to physical abilities.....but he excels when it comes to the power of the mind. Of all of Batman's rogues....if there is one I think he would just hands down NAIL..it's the Riddler. A character that loves to manipulate minds being presented by a director that loves to do the same.
 
Just thinking about the different villians from the Batman series, there are only a few that work in the Nolan world. That being said, Bane is one of them. I can easily see Nolan working the whole story of Batman being broken, Jean-Paul Valley taking up the mantle, and taking things too far. Bring in Talia Al Ghul as a love interest, and have her heal Bruce via the Lazarus pool. Then, taking down Bane, and a Batman vs. Batman showdon to finish it off.
 
For me the 3rd fim can only go one way-The Dark Knight Returns inspired storyline. As far as Gotham's concerned Dent died a hero and with Gordon as commissioner I imagine there could be several years of peace and prosperity for Gotham. Batman is still on the scene for a short while cleaning the streets of any loose ends (while being chased by the police) but once the new age of prosperity for Gotham begins Bruce retires and the Batman disappears. Skip forward 15, 20 years and things have once again started to spiral out of control, The Joker has finally managed to escape Arkham and the madness begins all over again. Batman finally pulls himself out of retirement to save the day once again, confront his nemesis (he did say they'd be doing this for a long while after all) and finally clear his name.

Reasons why I think this could work:

They will find it very hard to top TDK. No villain will ever match Joker IMO. Riddler, Catwomen, whoever you want, they can't top Joker, anything else will simply feel anticlimactic and a poor way to end a trilogy.
If it's 20 years in the future they can recast Joker without it looking too out of place. I feel sorry for he poor actor that has to take up the mantle after Ledger, but at least the foundations have been laid and he'll have something to work off.
I'd still want Bale as Batman obviously, although some slight make up and prosthetics to make him appear older.

It will really bring the trilogy full circle in a perfect manner. Realistically Nolan will do no more than 3 and without Nolan, or Bale (who said he'll only do then with Nolan,) the franchise will not be the same. The Dark Knight is supposed to be one of the greatest Batman stories told, would be a fitting way to end this great trilogy.

The movie obviously wouldn’t be a 100% faithful adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns and it's likely that they'll have to alter the story significantly but I think the concept (in the future, Batman out of retirement, Joker v Batman for one last time) lays the foundations for a great final film and would produce something that has yet to been seen in a Batman film.
 
I definetly wanna see joker back in the third, with the trial of the joker. Also i wanna see harley quinn and nightwing. I was thinkin they could jus skip robin and make nightwing a seperate vigillante. Which batman tries to make him stop says "you don't know what your getting into". But unspeakingly help each other out fighting crime. But as the villain I wanna see clayface. Because they made the police dept. of these movies. So that's why I wanna see clayface. But all together it should clayface, joker, harley quinn, & maybe riddler. Also they should kill fox (Morgan freeman).
 
Black Mask is lame... too much backstory required. It's a waste fo time... so many other organized crime lords they can use. Although I can't pinpoint who the best MAIN villain should be. Bane wouldn't work as the main guy. The only guy I can think of is Riddler. But we need a decent mob boss that is actually a threat to Batman.
 
Having Joker in the third along with Two Face would have worked, but with heath's death there really isn't an option to have a recasted Joker. It would ruin the film no matter how good the story and no good actor would put themselves in that situation to fill someone's shoes. So you will end up getting bad actors for Joker, so might as well just keep him in jail, get a heath look-alike to just show his face with CGI touch, no acting no talking.

Riddler in a lot of ways is like Joker, except instead of direct clues he gives riddles and instead of anarchy and enjoying being evil, riddler is an ego maniac who wants to prove he can out-smart batman. Possibly putting batman in bad situations to make batman the villain. Riddler has other people do his work... he's a mastermind who plans unlike the Joker. This could easily lead to a secondary character who does the dirty work like Bane whom can have a grudge against Batman and want some monetary compensation.
 
The movie is in the tone of the Silence of the Lambs, more of a detective mystery (Long Holloween) than the action heavy TDK because the villain isn't about anarchy, just psychological intimidation to the citizens of Gotham and even more so to Gothams finest/public officials. Why? Because he likes the attention, not because he likes chaos. It starts off with murders. Security cameras capture the murders of random citizens all around the city done by city officials and notable public figures (The Mayor, Gordon, even Bruce Wayne). Some of the murders are seen to be done by members of the remaining mafia (who kill off other mob families), this leads to a mob civil war, practically wiping out organized crime in Gotham for good. Each murder scene has a riddle, taunting the police. The GCPD has turned into a frenzy, and with the city against Batman, they have little help to turn to, most of the cops are finding it increasingly hard to trust each other after the events in TDK and even more so after witnesses and cameras capture their own as perps in the murders. They begin demanding answers as the evidence of the murders have leaked out to the GNC, where Mike Engle has soaring ratings on Gotham Tonight by showing the tapes without explanation as to how the station obtained them. The GCPD get furious with the show when it leaks restricted evidence to the public. Batman tries to beat answers out of Engle, Engle says they are sent in the mail with riddles in each package (a sypher like the Zodiacs), after figuring out the cipher, it gives Batman the name of a theatrical actor, Basil Karlo and we find that with the use of waxed prosthetic applications and careful study on the subjects, he is in fact the one behind the murders. He confesses to it all without any motive given. His face is constantly peeled and bruised due to the waxed applications. The GCPD flaunt the capture to the public, trying to ensure the city is safer, headlines in the paper read "CAUGHT: The Clay-Faced Killer". Everything settles down. Then another riddle turns up at the door of the GCPD with a video tape. Before we know it, the murders start again. This time though, the tape left behind shows what looks like Harvey Dent committing a murder of an accused crooked cop, only this Dent has scars across half of his face. He tosses a coin in front of the camera to determine the fate of the officer. Batman and Gordon consider how many officers knew of Dent's specific fate and more importantly, his method of “fair” justice. Who could have leaked it to another 'clay-face killer', the one still leaving the riddles? More importantly, how is it that this clay-face is capable of recreating Dents appearance perfectly (the prosthetic applications from the first clay-face killer were detectably phony at close inspection). Gordon makes a confession to Batman... Dent was only unconscious when he fell, leaving him in a coma. Gordon, keeping it tight lips with the few that knew, placed him under the psych ward at Arkham. Gordon confesses that Dent just woke from the coma a week ago. Bat’s is not happy about the secret. Gordon tells him he couldn’t reveal it to him because he was afraid that Batman would try to get involved with Dent in an attempt to show Harvey a righteous path (and to clear Batman’s own name to the public) and the few loyal cops that knew of Harvey’s existence might turn on Gordon for if they find out he’s still in cahoots with the Dark Knight. At this point Gordon could not gamble with his men’s trust. Batman thinks the coincidence might be too much to ignore, so he confronts Dent at Arkham anyway. They have philosophical discussions on justice, Dent claims he hasn’t left his cell. This is confirmed by his psychiatrist. The tape of Dent murdering the cop leaks out to Gotham Tonight, after the cities martyr is seen in the video murdering an officer in what he calls “the court of true justice”, The city goes nuts. Another clayface killer mocking the cites symbol of hope. The new clayface killer, now called “The Two-Face” cop killer continues to make video tapes of police murders. The killer explains how each officer participated in something corrupt before flipping a coin to determine their fate. Some survive the flip, others don’t. All leak to Gotham Tonight. The survivors have little recollection aside from being bashed on the head unconscious before filming. Each surviving officer has a one letter code written on their chest. Gordon is forced to fire the survivors for the sake of public perception after the very accurate evidence presented by Dent. The city is burning. Gotham’s finest are slowly quitting, the remaining few believe an insider on the force is leaking the evidence to this “fake Dent”. Cops can no longer trust their own, and because of this, Gordon can trust nobody but Batman. The citizens lose hope in almost everything, everyone every night becomes glued to Gotham Tonight when “Harvey Two-Face” demands that the “court session of true justice” as he likes to put it be shown live on Gotham Tonight or else there will be no flip of the coin for a chance for the officers to survive. The show becomes a sick reality program and rating are up. Bruce begins to think that maybe the Joker was right, maybe deep down everyone is like him. Gordon tells Batman that every officer being captured are officers that were tried by the actual Harvey Dent years ago when he was still a front running Internal Affairs officer, and that all of them were not convicted. Batman interrogates the real Dent, but when confronted, he sees more and more of the Harvey he knew. He wants to believe Harvey’s therapy is working. The psychologist continues to disprove the idea that Harvey ever left Arkham, backing it with video evidence. After the next officer survives, Batman takes account the latest symbol and figures out the riddle. It leads back to Engle. Batman finds Engle. Engle confesses. He is the man behind the riddles and the videos, but he is not “The Two-face killer”. Engle is clearly psychotic; he did it all for Gotham’s attention, both on him in the studio, and the mystery he created. And now he has the attention of Batman, who he got the city to hate on his program by persisting a theory that Batman became the Two Face killer, murdering the cops that insisted the city turn to hate him. He presents Batman with a riddle (one I haven’t written yet) and it all comes back to Arkham…

The clues comes together… Engle’s riddle explains everything. We find out that Harvey’s psychiatrist let Harvey out every night to commit the murders. Harvey agreed to leave the riddles on the survivors in return for getting justice on the police force that destroyed his family. The execution might have been done by this “Riddler” (Engle) but its birth came from none other than The Joker. Engle explains that he got an exclusive interview with the Joker after he was captured, The Joker offered him a chance to be infamous. He told him where to find the remaining money he took from the mob and to offer half to Basil Karlo, the clay-face killer, an actor he knew from “back when” who was clinically insane and would do anything to get out of dept. Engle agreed in exchange for the other half and the “exclusives of what was to come”. All it took was an almost Stockholm syndrome- like relationship Dent’s shrink, Harley Quizno had with The Joker. Batman, after hearing this from Engle (we see it in Nolan esc. Flashbacks kind of like The Prestige), Batman rushes to Arkham. He moves to the Jokers cell. He finds Dr. Quizno, hung by the next, with a fresh chiseled smile dressed up with black eyes, white and red paint on her face, like The Joker. “HA HA HA” is smeared everywhere in the cell with her blood. He moves to Dents cell. Dent taunts Batman “I did what was fair. If Gotham wasn’t afraid to live in a city that is truly fair, it wouldn’t have needed you”. Dent explains that Engle offered him a chance out for good but being a man of “justice”, he flipped and lost the toss, so he came back every night. Harvey gives Batman a note left by The Joker addressed to him. It reads of how they are they are two freaks now destined to battle for the sanity of Gotham and now that the city hates both of them, Gotham has nothing left but extinction. Gordon comes too. He states in a public address along with the Mayor that The Batman solved the murders. The city demands answers about the “Two-Face” killer, Gordon says that Harvey has always been dead, and that the killer was another “Clay-face” that has been arrested. The spirit of Gotham resides now on Batman. He is the hero the public should have seen all along. Bruce comes to terms with it and decides he can never hang up the cape.

Themes
Redemption but at a cost. Batman becomes the only thing Gotham trusts, Bruce knows that because of this, he can never quit.

Might need a few fixes but I think a murder mystery like this would be the best way to go. … Sorry for the long post!



woww good story almost sounds believable
 
Am i the only one who doesnt like the idea of Mad Hatter being a pedophile and a rapist? I mean, he's a creepy dude sure, but he doesnt have to have a thing for little kids. He has an obsession with Alice in wonderland. The girl he obsesses over doesnt have to be a child, she can be someone in her 20's...
 
The Mad Hatter would be a cult leader if I were going to make him more realistic. I have suggested this many times (really have got no response), but cult's brainwash people into their beliefs (I think this is faithful to the concept of mind control), and he could theme the cult after Alice in Wonderland. Plus, his henchmen would defy Batman out of extreme loyalty to the Mad Hatter.

Though I don't see this version of the Mad Hatter being a main villain. He'd have to be secondary. My bro and I came up with a Batman 3 concept where Riddler is the main threat (the brains), and the Mad Hatter's cult is involved in his plan and Catwoman would also be involved (possibly as his muscle against Batman).

In any case, the Riddler needs a serious approach and his plan I feel needs to be extremely complex (unlike that crappy BF movie).
 
The Mad Hatter would be a cult leader if I were going to make him more realistic. I have suggested this many times (really have got no response), but cult's brainwash people into their beliefs (I think this is faithful to the concept of mind control), and he could theme the cult after Alice in Wonderland. Plus, his henchmen would defy Batman out of extreme loyalty to the Mad Hatter.

Though I don't see this version of the Mad Hatter being a main villain. He'd have to be secondary. My bro and I came up with a Batman 3 concept where Riddler is the main threat (the brains), and the Mad Hatter's cult is involved in his plan and Catwoman would also be involved (possibly as his muscle against Batman).

In any case, the Riddler needs a serious approach and his plan I feel needs to be extremely complex (unlike that crappy BF movie).

You know, I can actually see the Mad Hatter being a pretty damn good villain if you take the Riddler ideas, and tweak it. Gotham needs a new face to help change things, and people can buy into the Mad Hatter's bullcrap, one of them being killing the Batman. Throughout the movie, his cult grows and they start doing worse things that force Batman to step in and the city to change it's tune. I'm not sure if he should be the major villain, but right now I can't think of how I'd fit someone like Black Mask, Riddler, or Bane in to make the story better.
 
I'd have Mad Hatter hold a group of blonde teenage girls hostage for an opening sequence to reintroduce Batman to the audience.

The situation is purposely left ambiguous and perhaps later Gordon comments on Mad Hatter's status as a cult leader or something like that. Child molestation is too hardcore for a PG13 film.
 
These are some ideas that me and a friend came up with for Batman 3.....

1. Edward Nigma is an eccentric detective in the GCPD who becomes obsessed with Batman (possibly because Batman correctly solves a case that Nigma had said he solved).

2. Batman has retired (I know its cliche but give me some slack).

3. True to Joker's prediction freaks are now coming to Gotham, including some fighting for control of Gothams underworld (we were thinking of Bane and Black Mask).

4. A new group of men try to fill the void left by Batman and operate under the group alias Azreal. They have the discipline, talent, and equipment to rival Batman and unlike the copy-cats refuse to break the "no-kill" rule. However, as the war escelates they become more extreme. Never killing anyone personally they do resort to torture and kidnapping. Nigma also has put himself in the same position that Gordan was with Batman, and manipulates them to do more extreme things as a way to draw Batman out of retirement.

Opinions? (please dont flame if you disagree)
 
Just one friendly reminder.

In order for a villian to work and actually require batman to be there...you need another villian that is strong enough when he or she is faced with Competant police officers.


When the police is more 'realistic' and can actually solve crimes without needing extra help, then you will really need a vilian that he beyond the control of any real world police.


In BB, we have a town so corrupt that it is impossible for the police to function and to take down the mob.


Then there is also Ra's Al Gul, which is on the level of an terrorist...a massive spread of fear gas is something that even the best police force in the real world can't handle.


In TDK, there is the joker, who manage to outwit what any police force can do. Even when the police manage to take down the joker and put him in a cell, no one expects that the joker is capable for pulling such an escape.



Guys, think of a villian who is able to defeat any action a real police force can take.



The next film would need someone who is just as dangerous as Ra's or the joker...someone that only batman can take him down.
 
Some more things me and my friend thought of..........

1. Bane is (at first glance) a drug dealer trying to get power in Gotham, his product has the effect of getting you completly wasted and temporarily increasing your strength. Bane besides being at peak fitness for a human also has a concentrated amount of the drug that makes him nearly superhuman (within the boundries of reality)

2. Nigma discovers the truth about Harvey Dent and threatens to expose his crime to the public as a way to draw Batman out. (Our idea was that he leaves an envelope at a crime scene with a question mark on it and inside of it is a Dent campaign sticker that says "I used to believe in Harvey Dent" and Dents coin.
 
Apology if my idea is corny or doesn't fit the Batman mythos.

**** SPOILERS AHEAD IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN DARK KNIGHT****




BB: Ra challenged Batman's ideals of not killing and Ra was trying to create a better world through wiping everyone out in the city (mass murder) by using Scarecrow's fear gas to turn everyone insane and delusional.

TDK: Joker challenged Batman's philosophy and existence, that Batman is a joke. Tries to do this by turning the city and everything good into something evil. This went both ways as Harvey showed Joker was right and the people on the boat showed Joker was wrong. Batman counters what happens with Harvey by taking the blame

3rd Film: A villain (i think Riddler) that will challenge Batman and Bruce Wayne at the heart (his loneliness) by framing Batman as the villain which then results in the city turning against him. A villain (Riddler) that is a schemer unlike Joker that frames Batman and tries to find the true identity to ruin Batman and be acknowledged as the mastermind. Batman reaches breaking point when he is constantly reminded what he has lost in his good friends (rachel and harvey)... only one he can trust is Goodman and Caine. However, Goodman has troubles of his own as the new D.A. replacing both rachel and harvey is breathing down Goodman's neck about his dealings with Batman which eventually leads to release of several criminals including Two Face. The city starts to follow Two Face as he convinces the public that Batman must pay for his crimes. The police squad Goodman is leading all believe Batman is responsible for all the deaths and crimes that insue. One of the criminals (catwoman) starts to cling to Batman by taking advantage of his moments of loneliness and they become attached. Someone of strength (Bane? Black Mask?) finds out catwomen's identity and uses her as bait (riddler leaves riddles to her location) then physically fight Batman (something we haven't seen yet). Batman saves catwoman, meanwhile the crime rate of Gotham skyrockets to anarchy and madness. Most of the cops are underhandedly allying (dealing) with the criminals as Two Face and the Riddler take control of the city. The people of gotham realize they need a hero, the D.A. realize Goodman was right and apologizes for her mistakes. The batman sign once against lit up the skies and catwoman agrees to help batman clean the streets of both new criminals and those released by the new D.A. and stop Riddler and Two Face. As the city returns to peace in fear of batman, catwoman tells batman that she only helped due to her gratitude of saving her and her thrill-seeking desires. She decides they have different paths and Batman warns her he will not hesitate to put her in jail like the rest of the criminals, but that is exactly what catwoman wants and smiles.
 
I like the idea for Hush...

BUT, with some changes...

First of all, Hush would end up being Rutger Hauer from Batman Begins and The Riddler could be anyone for all I care. Reese, Engel, hardly matters to me...he's merely a stooge for Hauer anyway.

Second, Id only do the villian cycle of bad guys we've seen thus far...Joker, Zsasz etc but maybe bring in Catwoman for a small part, to be expanded upon if you need her in a future movie to fight Harley Quinn.
 
I think there should be a few aspects of "No Man's Land" mixed with some Dark Victory. I think Bruce Wayne should finally step up and be the public face that his dad was instead of being the billionare playboy.

I think the movie should take place about a year or little more after Dark Knight. I definitely think Mad Hatter can be used with some tweaking, Black Mask should be used (I will explain why) and definitely Hangman.

Now mind you I have a clusterufck of ideas and Im carving them down to form a linear story.

- Hangman begins killing cops leaving clues at the scene suggesting it is Harvey Dent behind it all. The Hangman is a former Gotham Police officer who finds out that Harvey Dent is in Arkham, He begins killing cops who know about Dents stay in Arkham leaving the clues for Batman.

- Black Mask is an employee of Wayne Enterprises who is personally let go for unethical work practices. This infuriates Roman Sionis sending him on a vendetta against Wayne.

- Firefly is used as muscle in the movie, a pyromaniac for hire. Doesnt play a terribly integral part of the story other than a scene where Black Mask falls out on a deal with Gary Lynns, and Lynns sets Roman's mask a blaze, causing it to bond and met to his face permanently.

- Riddler is the head of it all. He has always been more cerebral than any of the other villains, and strategically uses Hangman, Black Mask, Hatter, and Firefly to get Batmans attention.

- Talia Al Gul squeezes her way into the Gotham Police department and is one of the heads on the hunt for Batman (Knowing that Batman is responsible for her father's death, but she does not know he is Bruce Wayne). I think this will enable a possible date between the two which could give us a partial sample of what Catwoman would be like. I just feel Catwoman in any sense wont play an integral part of the story, other than love interest, and I dont think that is necessary, granted I just suggested a date scene with Talia and Bruce, but only for the reveal at the end to be that much better.

The Riddler uses muscle as pawns in a grander riddle for batman. Which causes Bats to be more present in the city than he would really like since the heat really isnt off him.

This enables Talia an opportunity by the end of the movie to get the drop on Batman.

As a result to The Riddler, or simply the Hangman "framing" Twoface they are broken out of the new Arkham (located on the outskirts of Gotham now as opposed to the Narrows) I also think even if its minimal Joker should make comments about how he told him (batman) so. I would even love if it was Harleen Quinnzel who breaks the Jokers Cell block out, which would include Scarecrow, Zsaz, Joker, and Two Face.

IT seems like a lot, and I am working on a treatment right now, so some of it may seem a little crude but it will be polished out. I definitely think in the beginning of the movie we need to see Bruce making up for his lack of Batman by taking care of the city during the day.

Since he cant prowl the rooftops as much as he used to, his batcave is equipped with the best in criminal tracking technology.

I would love to see him rebuild his wrecked Lamborghini into a new batmobile using Tumbler technology.

What do you guys think so far?
 
it seems alright. i really would like to see the villains getting together and trying to take down the batman. all the villains that are established anyway plus a few more new ones like the riddler.
 
Some more things me and my friend thought of..........

1. Bane is (at first glance) a drug dealer trying to get power in Gotham, his product has the effect of getting you completly wasted and temporarily increasing your strength. Bane besides being at peak fitness for a human also has a concentrated amount of the drug that makes him nearly superhuman (within the boundries of reality)

2. Nigma discovers the truth about Harvey Dent and threatens to expose his crime to the public as a way to draw Batman out. (Our idea was that he leaves an envelope at a crime scene with a question mark on it and inside of it is a Dent campaign sticker that says "I used to believe in Harvey Dent" and Dents coin.

I like the idea of the Riddler threatening to expose the secret of Dent as a means to draw Batman out :up:

I agree on other posters of the freaks sort of taking over Gotham from the mob, but the Riddler should be the freak that is taking the most control with his elaborate plan.
 
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