The Dark Knight Rises Batman 3: Where does the story go from here?

[Yurka]

Anyone have the link to the article where Goyer talks about part 3?

 

[DoesItDepressU]

Anyone have the link to the article where Goyer talks about part 3?

“I think that’s the scariest thing – to think, could we come up with a third movie that was as good as the first two? Can we top ourselves?” screenwriter David Goyer asked aloud, almost rhetorically, in a recent conversation with MTV News. “Doing it a third time would be a big proposition.”
Make no mistake about it, though, a third film HAS been discussed, Goyer confessed, revealing that, while nothing is concrete, both a villain and a theme have been bandied about.
“We’ve only talked loosely about it, though, Chris and I,” Goyer said.
Interestingly, it’s the theme, and not the villain, that most interests me, especially given how the latter seems inexorably tied to the former in this new modern Batman universe. (Fear the predominant issue in “Begins” precipitating the introduction of Scarecrow, escalation in “Knight” similarly calling for The Joker.
The fact that Goyer has a theme he wants to keep in mind for a possible “Batman 3” means he also has a direction, a crisis, and, yes, a villain.
So what is it?
“I have one,” Goyer said laughing. “But I’m not going to tell you. Chris is very particular about that.
“I do think, though, that if there’s not a third film – these two movies stand on their own,” he added. “I think it could go either way.”








http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2008/07/21/exclusive-david-goyer-says-he-knows-the-theme-for-batman-3/

 

[boywondernerdDC]

i don't think catwoman would work, especially after rachel dying, there would be no way bruce would date someone for real after that, and if she was just arm candy at one or two parties it wouldn't make sense for him to just know she was catwoman, plus after Halle Berry....

 

[BobJM]

They don't have to be "seriously dating" in BB3. She can simply bump into him during several parties, enticing him with her mysterious and sultry behavior.

Their relationship would be played out, for the majority, during their time as Batman and Catwoman.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

Here's how I imagine the third movie beginning (i call it "The Batman")

EXT. BACK LOT, 250 52nd STREET BUILDING, NIGHT

As BATMAN runs off into the night, COMMISSIONER JAMES GORDON clicks a POLICE RADIO.

ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BUILDING

An officer holds his German Shepherd in check.

GORDON (O.S.)
Harvey Dent is down, I repeat, Harvey Dent is down. Pursue the Batman, PURSUE THE BATMAN.

OFFICER
OK, let's go! Let's go!!

Batman jumps on the BATPOD and the vehicle ROARS to life just as we hear BARKING close behind him.

BACK LOT

Gordon pulls out his cellphone and dials a number.

GORDON
This is Commissioner Gordon...I need a secure medical transport unit at 250 52nd Street immediately. Top priority.

CUT TO:

EXT. STREET

Waiting in a squad car, police officers' radios crackle to life.

DISPATCHER
Attention all units, Batman sighted on Lower Fifth, pursue and arrest.

The squad car RUMBLES to life, and the SIRENS WAIL as the cop car zooms down the street.

CUT TO:

INT. ARKHAM ASYLUM

Gordon enters the medical facility just as EMTs bring in a BODYBAG. They set it on a gurney and unzip it, revealing HARVEY DENT. An ELDERLY MAN, DOCTOR LEHMAN, walks over and begins examining him.

GORDON
Please tell me he has a pulse.

DOCTOR LEHMAN
It's faint, but it's there, Commissioner.

GORDON
Get him on life support, I want him alive.

LEHMAN
Sure thing, Commissioner.


Maybe i'll write a fanscript, who knows? Lemme know if you like

 

[souvlaki]

The lame argument was intended, by the way. I was just trying to show that yours is the same argument witht he Riddler substituted in for the Joker. I guess you missed that. I'm sorry if your argument is the lamest you've ever heard.

The Riddler will have to look different, just like the Joker had to look different. What direction is necessary depends on the character. The Joker is wild and insane, thus he was changed to look more wild and insane. The Riddler is more gentlemenly and highbrow, thus his look should be changed accordingly. And for God's sake, I'm not talking about removing his riddles, just reducing them so that the movie isn't one whole riddlefest. Riddles take time and thought to solve, and we can't just have 20 riddles throughout the movie with Batman spamming the pondering pose on the screen instead of kicking ass. The outcry about the Joker not being permawhite was huge, and I imagine that the Riddler's suit color is far from that much of a controversy. Not to mention, Ra's al Ghul was way different too.

The computer hacker thing was just a suggestion and it is only really relevant to the story I proposed. You could easily swap in someone who plays the markets.

Let's see here...

Green hair? Check. White face? Check. Red lips? Check. Purple suit? Check. You are equating a change made to his origin to a major change in his appearance. I am well aware of the perma-white argument. But make up or no, his face is still white, his lips are still red, and his hair is still green. Your ideas for the Riddler are not comparable to the changes made to the Joker. Not even close. Noone is going to look at Heath Ledger and mistake him for someone else. But I guarantee if you show a picture of a guy with long hair, a business suit, a cane, and John Lennon glasses, and ask him who he is not one single person is going to say that is the Riddler.

And I have to ask, if the suit being green or not is far from a controversy, why change it? It's the most identifiable thing about the Riddler's wardrobe. You are associating two things with his appearance that are more or less irrelevant. Noone that thinks of the Riddler immediately thinks of his cane, or his glasses (which are a relatively new thing too, mind you). They think of his green suit, his question mark tie, and his hat. I just don't get why you would take away the one thing that is automatically identified with the Riddler (the color green) just because you think it makes more sense in Nolan's movies (which it doesn't). I can even understand an argument being made against a question mark tie, or even the hat, but the green suit? Please. There gets to be a point where this hyper-reality argument just flat out makes Batman, and his villains boring, and drains away anything that makes the character interesting. And it shows me that some people have absolutely no understanding whatsoever what Nolan means when he says his Batman exists in a realistic universe. Just because his universe is a little more realistic doesn't mean he likes to take away everything about the aesthetics of a certain character that makes them interesting. The characters still look and act like the characters they were intended to be. Riddler is easily the second easiest character (behind the Penguin) to adapt to the screen without making major changes to the looks of the character that might be deemed as silly. I mean, all you need to do it give the guy a green suit, a green or purple tie, a black dress shirt, a cane, and a hat and there is the Riddler. If Nolan cant even do that correctly he has no place directing a Batman film. Luckily for us he has more common sense than a few people posting on these boards, and knows how to keep the essence of a character's looks without making them look silly. That is the whole point of his stance on realism. He adapts these characters as closely as possible without making them look silly on the big screen. Please explain to me what is silly about a green suit, because I just don't get it.

 

[Doc Samson]

Let's see here...

Green hair? Check. White face? Check. Red lips? Check. Purple suit? Check. You are equating a change made to his origin to a major change in his appearance. I am well aware of the perma-white argument. But make up or no, his face is still white, his lips are still red, and his hair is still green. Your ideas for the Riddler are not comparable to the changes made to the Joker. Not even close. Noone is going to look at Heath Ledger and mistake him for someone else. But I guarantee if you show a picture of a guy with long hair, a business suit, a cane, and John Lennon glasses, and ask him who he is not one single person is going to say that is the Riddler.

And I have to ask, if the suit being green or not is far from a controversy, why change it? It's the most identifiable thing about the Riddler's wardrobe. You are associating two things with his appearance that are more or less irrelevant. Noone that thinks of the Riddler immediately thinks of his cane, or his glasses (which are a relatively new thing too, mind you). They think of his green suit, his question mark tie, and his hat. I just don't get why you would take away the one thing that is automatically identified with the Riddler (the color green) just because you think it makes more sense in Nolan's movies (which it doesn't). I can even understand an argument being made against a question mark tie, or even the hat, but the green suit? Please. There gets to be a point where this hyper-reality argument just flat out makes Batman, and his villains boring, and drains away anything that makes the character interesting. And it shows me that some people have absolutely no understanding whatsoever what Nolan means when he says his Batman exists in a realistic universe. Just because his universe is a little more realistic doesn't mean he likes to take away everything about the aesthetics of a certain character that makes them interesting. The characters still look and act like the characters they were intended to be. Riddler is easily the second easiest character (behind the Penguin) to adapt to the screen without making major changes to the looks of the character that might be deemed as silly. I mean, all you need to do it give the guy a green suit, a green or purple tie, a black dress shirt, a cane, and a hat and there is the Riddler. If Nolan cant even do that correctly he has no place directing a Batman film. Luckily for us he has more common sense than a few people posting on these boards, and knows how to keep the essence of a character's looks without making them look silly. That is the whole point of his stance on realism. He adapts these characters as closely as possible without making them look silly on the big screen. Please explain to me what is silly about a green suit, because I just don't get it.

Good post, but IDK, the Riddler was always kinda ridiculous to me, and it's not just his suit I'd be worried about. If you think about it, most of what the Joker did in TDK would be very similar to the Riddler, setting up elaborate traps that Batman would have to race around and stop. Only difference is it's in a Riddle, and once Batman gets a hold of him, he'll kick his ass within 10 seconds. Riddler's never been that dangerous of a villain in almost any incarnation, and has recently, in the comics at least, been reduced to a minor character much like the Penguin. Yes these guys are easily adjustable to Nolan's world, but after Ras, Scarecrow & the Joker, they're also a lot more dull and bland. The Riddler tries to outsmart Batman, but he's not the type to kidnap a fake Batman and cut his face, or try to vaporize the whole water supply, or even give the audience a cool visual with a fear toxin. No....Riddler is none of those things, and if he were to be used, I'm interested to see how they plan to use him as a force, rather than a nuisance

 

[Gianakin_]

If you think about it, most of what the Joker did in TDK would be very similar to the Riddler, setting up elaborate traps that Batman would have to race around and stop.

I'd argue that Joker didn't set up elaborate traps, just deceptive ones. The Riddler uses puzzles and riddles, the Joker switched addresses and forced choices. They're not really similar.

Now, the Joker viral marketing? Yes, that was more Riddler-ish.

 

[returntovoid]

***Edit***

 

[wikum]

Ok I haven't seen one of these threads yet (maybe they have all been deleted) so I thought I'd take the liberty of making this one. I posted this in this forum rather than one of the other ones as it is likely to contain spoilers for both previous films.

How do you follow up from The Dark Knight?

How do you top it? Do you even bother? Why not just finish it here?

The Dark Knight ends with Batman on the run from the police....and has been declared a wanted man for the murders of five people. Harvey Dent is apparently dead and The Joker has been imprisoned.

So let's make some lists of some of the possibilities (If I miss anything or anyone out mention it and I'll add it to the thread):

Who is contracted to return in the sequel?:

Bale (Batman)
Oldman (Gordon)
Caine (Alfred)
Freeman (Fox)

Other characters who could possibly return:

Ramirez
Reese
Mayor
Scarecrow
Engel

Let's assume these characters won't return:

Ra's Al Ghul (Dead)
Harvey Dent/Two Face (Dead)
The Joker (Ledger's death)
Flass (Fear Gas)
Falcone (Fear Gas)
Maroni (Most likely dead)
The Chechen (Dead)
Lau (Dead)
Weurtz (Dead)
Loeb (Dead)

Major and minor rogues that are likely to be thought of by Nolan and the rest of his crew:

Catwoman
Riddler
Penguin
Bane
Black Mask
Mad Hatter
Freeze
Ivy

Batman's Arsenal:

Does the Tumbler return? Or do we get a new Batmobile?
Bat Pod?
Bat Boat?
Batwing?

Any other cool gadgets from the comics that would work in a realistic fashion?

So my question to you guys/gals is simple: If you were writing the next Batman film....which route would you take?


A couple of quick thoughts on where I think you could go from here (I'll elaborate on them at a later date):

Batman has gone in to hiding. Have a new guy imitate Batman.....but not like the C.F.B. Someone that can do it WELL. Something similar to Azrael with a twist.... make him a bad guy....using his status for money/power/destruction....forcing the real Batman to come out of hiding and clear his name once and for all.

Or you could just have a film that ties into the same theme as above using absolutely loads of characters from Batman's rogue gallery creating all out war in Gotham....each of them fighting for control and power. Throw Selina Kyle in there a heroine....maybe someone more like an anti heroine....trying to take over from where Batman left off.....until she is overwhelmed by all the chaos. With Bruce looking on he decides that he has to don the mask once more to clean up the city.... ect ect.

This is stuff I'm just making up off the top of my head....but I'd love to see what you guys make of it too.

 

[DoesItDepressU]

Good post. But there's a forum devoted to Batman Begins Sequels.

 

[wikum]

Good post. But there's a forum devoted to Batman Begins Sequels.

I KNOW. but this is likely to have spoilers in it so it's not fair for the people who haven't seen The Dark Knight.

 

[the maddie]

Anyone notice the Catwoman reference when Fox was talking about the new suit specs? Something along the lines of it being able to stand up against a cat... just a little something i noticed. I love the Nolan-verse's dialogue, it assumes that you're an intelligent viewer.

 

[DARKMETHOD]

i just heard this famous hollywood insider reporter on 'the woody show' this morning saying that christopher nolan has told WB that he wants to do a thrid film but wants angelina jolie to play catwoman.

so 3 great things in this (if it's true), we get a 3 film, catwoman is the villain(according to the reporter) and Mr. Nolan is back.

if anybody listen's to the woody show and knows the guys name, he is pretty much right on. but ofcourse this early after tdk, first take it with a grain of salt until we get some good facts.

 

[ctkwilson]

OK, I will play along.

My idea. We start in a Gotham that now has seen a drastic turn around. Organized crime has all but been eliminated. Most of the corrupt cops have been eliminated from the force. The need for batman has faded away and the search/hunt for him has also faded.

But all is not good in our fair city... There is a new, darker force on the horizon then anyone could have imagined. Joker is now in Arkham, but has had contact with someone from the outside (we don't see Joker, but this is discussed between Gordon and Batman).

There is a new resident in Gotham that has gained acceptance from the people and uses his/her new found power to corrupt the city beyond anything the residents had experienced before. When the people reach out to batman for help, he at first refuses. When the new force targets batman to eliminate him to increase their power, batman is left with no choice but to fight back.

By the end of the movie batman has regained his status as a hero in Gotham, even though the man, Bruce Wayne will be forced to deal with the death of another person close to him.

 

[Paradyme]

I really don't know what they are going to do with this next movie but to be honest I only see Nolan using one character and that's Riddler. I don't think it will be as nearly as action packed as this previous installment and will in all probability be more of a mystery movie. Although I hope I'm wrong this is just what I'm visualizing at the moment.

 

[Mr Bungle]

The Riddler and Scarecrow

 

[DoesItDepressU]

Goyer and Jonah said that the list of rogues is very extensive beyond what has been portrayed on film. I think Riddler will be in it and Black Mask.

 

[RickO'Connell]

For the villian I want to see Nolan do Catwoman. Lets have a female villain for the third outing. Although there is no way in hell they will top the Batman Returns Catwoman Costume & I will always love Michelle as Catwoman but she can be topped

 

[Commodore Schmidlapp]

I know there's probably little chance, but I'd love to see the Black Mask in a Nolan movie. Pair him with the Riddler.

 

[wikum]

Goyer and Jonah said that the list of rogues is very extensive beyond what has been portrayed on film. I think Riddler will be in it and Black Mask.

After thinking about it for a while.... I'm pretty certain the sequel has to involve either Catwoman or The Ridder....just from a marketing standpoint. I mean....how can you go from having Two Face and The Joker to absolutely nobody worth caring about?

But is Catwoman really a villain? Or is she something in between? I've never viewed her as an out and out villain and I don't think any of the good carnations of the character have either.

Ideally I would love a murder mystery story involving The Riddler. Imagine Batman meets The Usual Suspects or Memento or Fight Club or any of those mind **** films. IT WOULD BE AMAZING! Maybe you could end up with something in between like Die Hard With A Vengeance....**** it....Jeremy Irons would make a great Riddler.

So you got your Riddler plot going on and then you could also have this at the same time...to quote myself from earlier:

Batman has gone in to hiding. Have a new guy imitate Batman.....but not like the C.F.B. Someone that can do it WELL. Something similar to Azrael with a twist.... make him a bad guy....using his status for money/power/destruction....forcing the real Batman to come out of hiding and clear his name once and for all.

Hell....you could even have the fake Batman employed by The Joker himself from inside prison...seeing as The Joker knows that Batman didn't kill those people he could take advantage of what he finds a "funny" situation and send a fake Batman on a killing spree.

 

[DoesItDepressU]

After thinking about it for a while.... I'm pretty certain the sequel has to involve either Catwoman or The Ridder....just from a marketing standpoint. I mean....how can you go from having Two Face and The Joker to absolutely nobody worth caring about?

But is Catwoman really a villain? Or is she something in between? I've never viewed her as an out and out villain and I don't think any of the good carnations of the character have either.

Ideally I would love a murder mystery story involving The Riddler. Imagine Batman meets The Usual Suspects or Memento or Fight Club or any of those mind **** films. IT WOULD BE AMAZING! Maybe you could end up with something in between like Die Hard With A Vengeance....**** it....Jeremy Irons would make a great Riddler.

I agree. If we look at this from a commercial standpoint you can see where they will go. One popular villain will be used and a love interest has to come into play simply b/c WB will want a love interest for the lead no matter what. That's probably the main reason why the character of Rachel Dawes was manufactured, I always felt it was a forced love interest.

So Catwoman is a convincing choice. The Riddler too could serve as a popular villain with great marketability. But I'm convinced that there will be a lesser known villain as well. The other situation would be a love interest who isn't catwoman but I personally don't see that.

 

[Night Walker SL]

What were the themes of these movies?

Batman Begins - Fear Vs Courage
The Dark Knight - Chaos Vs Order

I'm thinking the third film could be something like Life Vs Death?


I'm thinking lots of time should pass between TDK and the third film(maybe around 5-7 years) and they really should go the contagion route, since the league of shadows has splinter cells in gotham (they did infiltrate every level of the city's infrastructure after all). Talia and Ras should make a return and unleash a bio weapon attack on the city. this should be the movie where batman runs a gauntlet, facing off against scarecrow, two-face, joker, etc. perhaps alfred gets infected as do other characters in the film (i.e the flying graysons?). Catwoman can be introduced as an antagonist turned ally when it becomes apparent that stopping the mass death due to the virus is a priority, which of course can lead to a love interest.

 

[StorminNorman]

The Riddler is NOT a main villain. The guy is a fairly pathetic villain. You can't go from complete anarchy in the form of the Joker to...the Riddler. There is no escalation there. Hell - The Riddler doesn't propose half the threat the Scarecrow does.

That being said - I want to see the Riddler. I also want to see Mad Hatter and Catwoman and Black Mask and Scarecrow and Ventriloquist.

Basically the way I see it - after TDK all the organized crime heads have been taken out, either by Dent/Gordon or Two Face or Joker.

Who fills this new and even larger void? The Freaks. Costumed crazies are the new face of crime, a movement inspired by the Joker.

Mad Hatter is a pedophile rapist.

Black Mask, the Penguin and the Ventriloquist are mob leaders.

Scarecrow has his gang.

The Riddler is a petty criminal that uses riddles to frustrate and befuddle the cops.

For a while they work alone, isolated. The Cops and Batman have success against them. Crime, in spite of the new growing wave of insane criminals, is falling.

But then things change. It becomes apparent that these small time freaks are being manipulated by a force. A force that has a personal vendetta against Batman.

Take the Hush story line - and I would replace Talia Al Ghul for Hush. Include Catwoman as well, weaving her in and out of the story playing both sides of the law. She steals one nights, plays informant for Batman the next.

This, IMO, is the best way to take this story.

 

[Thythoutrust]

I don't even want to talk about it. It could easily end this way.... The only opening I saw seriously is that the joker didn't die but.... Heath is dead so... I mean you can't make a 3rd movie with no joker that wouldn't make any sense... Unless you get an actor that could show us another side of the joker maybe like they did with Rachel.... I guess that could work but they're not many actor capable of doing such thing...Seriously the only one I see right now is Johnny Depp...