Captain America

[Darth Elektra]

i think the first one should take place during WWII; establish the origin of Cap and his archnemesis the Red Skull. and he could be unfrozen in the present for the sequel. he'd be found by SHIELD, be shown around the present by SHIELD agent Sam Wilson (actor Derek Luke), and be just getting situated when Hydra frees the Skull from his government cell (more like a pit and he's down there because he's just too hard to kill). Hydra and Baron Strucker (actor Mitch Pileggi) want the Red Skull to be their figurehead; since he unknowingly inspired the organization much like Cap inspired the creation of SHIELD. oh and Strucker's flackies would be Viper (actress Milla Jovovich), Dr Arnim Zola (actor Udo Kier), and a Hydra strong man/Red Skull-fanboy who is later named Crossbones (actor Andrew Bryniarski).

Thats a preety cool plot.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Ya know, Muze, that concept sounded very close to th' one I been toutin' on this board; 'cept I had Skull return in th' sequel to go after th' cosmic cube an' teamed Cap up with Agent-13.

 

[RAMORE]

love that idea muze

 

[Penguin]

WWII Cap

 

[CaptainCanada]

Cap adjusting to modern times/problems with plenty of flashbacks to WWII

That's the best route.

 

[sepharih]

This isn't really even an issue anymore since they've already said its going to be a man out of his time, fish out of water type flick.

I hadn’t heard that. Damnit...that really sucks.

Honestly, the film from 1990 demonstrated exactly why that’s really not a good idea. Before you ever even attempt to get into the “man out of his time” aspect of the character you really need to establish to the audience why this man is a living legend. The 1990’s film solution completely sidestepped this by only having him serve on one mission before he was frozen, covertly, so that very few even knew of his existence. I’m really not convinced that flashbacks are going to cut it.

 

[HR-PUFF&STUFF]

I hadn’t heard that. Damnit...that really sucks.

Honestly, the film from 1990 demonstrated exactly why that’s really not a good idea. Before you ever even attempt to get into the “man out of his time” aspect of the character you really need to establish to the audience why this man is a living legend. The 1990’s film solution completely sidestepped this by only having him serve on one mission before he was frozen, covertly, so that very few even knew of his existence. I’m really not convinced that flashbacks are going to cut it.

the plot of that movie had little to do with it sucking.
1) the movie was about 90 mins
2) the cast sucked
3) the sets and locations sucked
4) you could tell that they didn't put any money into the movie
5) the Acting
6) the stroy was week, after cap is unfrozen he runs around as steve rogers with the granddaughter of his long dead GF, and when he didn't do that they made bad jokes about him being from the 40's to show how time had changed.
7) Red skull wasn't done right
8) useing everything but his sheild to fight with.

the plot of a man out of his time has worked in meany other movies, books, and tv and that is what cap is know for most.

and to say that because one movie based on cap sucked so they should make the next one unlike that one is flaud logic. the 1990 movie was made cheaply and thats what it looked like on screen.

 

[3dman27]

Nazis

thats the ticket for caps movie

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

WWII and Nazis. Not Vietcong or modern American-villains.

 

[Dr. Fate]

Before you ever even attempt to get into the “man out of his time” aspect of the character you really need to establish to the audience why this man is a living legend.

True... very true.

 

[bulok]

Has anyone ever seen the movie Forever Young with Mel Gibson? That was kind of Capt. America-esque imo.

 

[Dr. Fate]

Has anyone ever seen the movie Forever Young with Mel Gibson? That was kind of Capt. America-esque imo.

Yeah, I've seen that one.

 

[Saved]

I was going to say Cap vs. Nazis as 1 film, and then the next one him adjusting. But, I like the Cap adjusting with lots of WW II flashbacks that lead to the return and battle with Red Skull.

 

[sepharih]

the plot of that movie had little to do with it sucking.

I disagree. I think it had a great deal to do with it. The entire foundation of the film was fundamentally flawed.

1) the movie was about 90 mins
2) the cast sucked
3) the sets and locations sucked
4) you could tell that they didn't put any money into the movie
5) the Acting
6) the stroy was week, after cap is unfrozen he runs around as steve rogers with the granddaughter of his long dead GF, and when he didn't do that they made bad jokes about him being from the 40's to show how time had changed.
7) Red skull wasn't done right
8) useing everything but his sheild to fight with.

You misunderstood me. I in no way meant to imply that that was the only thing wrong with the film. The flaws pervading that travesty are too many to name. These all stem from one overall problem, incompetent filmmaking. I think the decision to quickly leapfrog from the 40’s to the more modern era was simply another bad decision.

the plot of a man out of his time has worked in meany other movies, books, and tv and that is what cap is know for most.

I thought cap was most known for being a living legend, the hero of WWII.
Just because the man out of time aspect has worked in many other movies, books, and tv, doesn’t necessarily mean it’s an appropriate way to start this franchise off. As I said, before you even think about getting into that aspect I firmly believe that you need to spend time establishing that this man is literally a living legend. The audience won’t understand that if you A) take the road the 1990 film did, or B) have people know who he is in the film and react with awe, but fail to establish to the audience why they react this way around him.
A great screenwriter may be able to do it, and find some kind of a balance, but I think it’s a handicap that’s going to be difficult to work around. I think they’d be better off saving that aspect for future installments.

and to say that because one movie based on cap sucked so they should make the next one unlike that one is flaud logic.

......

...the 1990 film was a complete travesty...so the film in 2009 should be made like it? Is that what you’re suggesting? Sorry, but I think your logic is flawed.

the 1990 movie was made cheaply and thats what it looked like on screen.

You could have given Albert Pyun a 300 million dollar budget and he would have still produced an embarrassing schlockfest of a film. No amount of money overcomes the shortcomings of an incompetent filmmaker.

 

[Duncan MacLeod]

The first one should be completely set in WWII. His origin, his first battle with the Red Skull. No present day elements at all and no cliffhanger ending. About 10 or 15 years ago Marvel did a prestige format 4-issue origin story that would have made a fantastic Cap movie.

The second one should start at the end of WWII with the bomb and Cap being frozen and then found by Shield in the present. That's when to do the man out of time story. But let's establish Captain America as a legend first.

Just my $0.02

 

[CaptainCanada]

but fail to establish to the audience why they react this way around him.

Well, first, you relate his origin in flashback, and establish his heroic nature. Beyond that, the guy is from 1940s and woke up after more than 60 years on ice; that should be enough reason for people to be impressed to meet him.

It's impractical to do a whole movie set in World War II, because the transition to the 21st century is a known fact about Cap's backstory; place it at the end of a film, and you've essentially created an entire first ("first" implying financial success, and sequels, which is by no means a sure thing) film where the ending is known, which is a terrible idea. It's only after he gets to the 21st century that we arrive past the necessary stages of the plot, where what happens has some actual mystery.

Not to mention that, from a purely business/financial angle, period superhero/sci-fi films are traditionally abysmal performers.

 

[sepharih]

Well, first, you relate his origin in flashback, and establish his heroic nature. Beyond that, the guy is from 1940s and woke up after more than 60 years on ice; that should be enough reason for people to be impressed to meet him.

The problem is that I don’t think a few flashbacks are going to cut it. Flashbacks are difficult enough to handle in a narrative because unless they’re done with the utmost care they tend to make the structure incredibly convoluted. It’s possible that some oscar worthy screenplay writer will find a way to do it, but I think you’re grossly underestimating the inherent difficulty.
Assuming that the first flashback you actually see would be his origin, to establish how he became this super soldier to start with, how do you then establish his heroic nature in the same flashback? I don’t think you really can. For that matter, how do you illustrate and convey Legendary status to someone with such a limited timeframe allotted to you to accomplish it in? I suppose someone could find a way to do it, but I still think it’s a severe handicap that’s going to give the screenwriter problems, and may very well lessen the films overall quality.
As for your “60 years on ice” comment, sure that’s one thing to be in awe of, but the point is that people should recognize him for more than just being a complete medical and scientific miracle. People should recognize him for being a bonafide legend and hero in his own right.

It's impractical to do a whole movie set in World War II, because the transition to the 21st century is a known fact about Cap's backstory; place it at the end of a film, and you've essentially created an entire first ("first" implying financial success, and sequels, which is by no means a sure thing) film where the ending is known, which is a terrible idea. It's only after he gets to the 21st century that we arrive past the necessary stages of the plot, where what happens has some actual mystery.

Anyone who hadn’t been living under a rock since 1977 knew that Anakin was going to betray the Jedi order and become Darth Vader in Episode III. Popular opinion on the first two films notwithstanding, most people still seemed to love the movie.
Everyone, with the exception of utterly insane conspiracy theorists, knows what ultimately happened to the passengers on United 93, but that didn’t lessen the drama of the film.
Ever heard the saying that life is a road, not a destination? The same thing goes with drama and film in many respects. Besides:
1. I’m not sure that the majority of people who will see this film will actually know these details.
2. Another option was provided on this page as well. You could do this film and save his “death” and arrival in modern days for a sequel (assuming it was to happen at all).

Not to mention that, from a purely business/financial angle, period superhero/sci-fi films are traditionally abysmal performers.

The only period superhero films that come to mind at the moment are The Shadow and The Phantom, and I don’t exactly think it was the fact that those were period pieces that gave them lackluster box office draws. Plus, they were both made in a time where superhero films were traditionally abysmal performers in general.

 

[HR-PUFF&STUFF]

The problem is that I don’t think a few flashbacks are going to cut it. Flashbacks are difficult enough to handle in a narrative because unless they’re done with the utmost care they tend to make the structure incredibly convoluted. It’s possible that some oscar worthy screenplay writer will find a way to do it, but I think you’re grossly underestimating the inherent difficulty.
Assuming that the first flashback you actually see would be his origin, to establish how he became this super soldier to start with, how do you then establish his heroic nature in the same flashback? I don’t think you really can. For that matter, how do you illustrate and convey Legendary status to someone with such a limited timeframe allotted to you to accomplish it in? I suppose someone could find a way to do it, but I still think it’s a severe handicap that’s going to give the screenwriter problems, and may very well lessen the films overall quality.
As for your “60 years on ice” comment, sure that’s one thing to be in awe of, but the point is that people should recognize him for more than just being a complete medical and scientific miracle. People should recognize him for being a bonafide legend and hero in his own right.

so because its hard to do just take the easy way out is that it, or is it that because "you" don't think there is any one that can do.

the thing is with the flash backs is, is that people will know that its a flash back seeing as it takes place in the 40's.


plus there are movies that have used the flash backs and it worked-

Highlander
Batman Begins

these are two movies that used flash backs and it worked.

but i find that this is all mood seeing as we know that the movie will be a man out of time story.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

I would have the Captain taking on the Nazi`s during World War II,if this is done right,it might be one of the greatest Marvel films ever made.

 

[sepharih]

so because its hard to do just take the easy way out is that it, or is it that because "you" don't think there is any one that can do.

I’m for going the way which I feel would produce the best film, period. I’m not saying you definitively can’t do it well by setting it in the modern day with flashbacks. Anything is possible, but my point is that unless it’s done by a guy who REALLY knows what he’s doing it’s going to be a big complex inane mess, much like Ang Lee’s Hulk was for similar but different reasons. Again, I think you’re underestimating the inherent difficulty in structuring the film in such a manner.
Honestly, I enjoy David Goyer’s work for the most part, but I really don’t think he has what it takes to construct a well paced two plus hour narrative that does justice to Cap’s origin and living legend status and also brings him into the modern era with a general direction for him to go in. I can already imagine how incoherent that could end up being without a brilliant screenwriter at the table. In this case, less is more, and you’re better off keeping things more simple.

the thing is with the flash backs is, is that people will know that its a flash back seeing as it takes place in the 40's.

And? Flashbacks don’t just make a story convoluted because you may not be able to tell which timeframe your in currently, It’s more a matter of that, when a flashback goes on for an extended amount of time, it becomes easy to forget that you’re in a flashback at all, and it dilutes the central narrative. Take a screenwriting class and they’ll tell you straight up that flashbacks are a no-no for the most part.
If Cap’s WWII days are going to be told through flashbacks then it means, fairly certainly, that the focus of the film will be on his adapting to the modern days. I think that’s a bad idea. It would be better I think to focus in and establish his character during WWII so that we can both understand his living legend status and, perhaps more importantly, see things from his perspective when he finally *does* come to modern times. If you bring him into modern times too soon we also won’t get the full impact of how jarring an effect it must be on him.

plus there are movies that have used the flash backs and it worked-

Highlander
Batman Begins

these are two movies that used flash backs and it worked.

And you may notice that in Batman Begins case, (which Goyer also wrote) that the flashbacks are only used in the films earlier acts (exempting the brief segments concerning Bruce’s father). By the time his training with the league of shadows is complete the story keeps its focus entirely on Batman’s current course. It helped convey the idea of Bruce not knowing where to go or what path to follow.

And I really wouldn’t suggest using Highlander as an example of how to construct a film. Sure, I enjoy the movie and I think it’s pretty good for a cult 80’s b-movie, but I think we should set our standards a bit higher.

Understand, flashbacks do have their place in storytelling, but they’re still something you desperately want to avoid if at all possible.

but i find that this is all mood seeing as we know that the movie will be a man out of time story.

The point is far from moot since my submission is that, whether or not it *is* done as a man out of time story, doing so will be both problematic and, I feel, inferior to devoting an entire film to his days during WWII.
Also, has the script been finalized? Keep in mind that until production starts, and even during production for that matter, the script is in a constant state of flux. Even once the first draft is complete, revisions and rewrites are inevitable. Unless I missed something somewhere they haven’t even hired a director yet. Until production actually starts they could just as easily do a complete 180 and go the other way.

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

i still think a cap film will be very hard to do without forcing the whole america is the best on the film

 

[HR-PUFF&STUFF]

i still think a cap film will be very hard to do without forcing the whole america is the best on the film

if you think thats what cap is about then you don't know much about him.

 

[sepharih]

^I don’t think that’s what he was implying, though I could be wrong. It seemed more to me like he was making the point that the filmmakers could spend two hours degenerating into yet another America saves the day and the rest of the world just stands their flabbergasted and in awe of how awesome we are, which is a decent point. Honestly though, that’s not really what I’m worried about.
Actually, considering the current political state we’re in, I’m more worried about this film being hijacked and turned into a two hour long piece of political criticism in which Cap basically tears the current administration a new one for their pious actions. Not that they don’t deserve it mind you, but I go to movies such as this to escape from said political climate.

Either way, it’s yet another reason why I think WWII is the best option.

 

[HR-PUFF&STUFF]

^I don’t think that’s what he was implying, though I could be wrong. It seemed more to me like he was making the point that the filmmakers could spend two hours degenerating into yet another America saves the day and the rest of the world just stands their flabbergasted and in awe of how awesome we are, which is a decent point. Honestly though, that’s not really what I’m worried about.
Actually, considering the current political state we’re in, I’m more worried about this film being hijacked and turned into a two hour long piece of political criticism in which Cap basically tears the current administration a new one for their pious actions. Not that they don’t deserve it mind you, but I go to movies such as this to escape from said political climate.

Either way, it’s yet another reason why I think WWII is the best option.

i an with you on that, cap should be for whats right as he was ment to be.

 

[The_Hulk]

it should definitely be WWII with nazis..and maybe it could end with bucky dying and him being frozen to set up a 2nd movie.