The Dark Knight Rises Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 1

[DKDetective]

Yeah, but your comparing story influences, when most people are comparing characteristics.

Not really, they were talking about characterizations as well. Arguably, psychological characteristics/personality traits are more important than visual ones and Nolan has been very faithful to those, hence Nolan's ability to not only to tell stories heavily inspired by the comics, but to hit the same thematic beats as them. Story stems from the characters. He's gotten the characters right and, as such, he's been able to tell stories that are both original and highly faithful to the spirit and ideas of the comics at the same time.

 

[Travesty]

Not really, they were talking about characterizations as well. Arguably, psychological characteristics/personality traits are more important than visual ones and Nolan has been very faithful to those, hence Nolan's ability to not only to tell stories heavily inspired by the comics, but to hit the same thematic beats as them. Story stems from the characters. He's gotten the characters right and, as such, he's been able to tell stories that are both original and highly faithful to the spirit and ideas of the comics at the same time.

That's highly debatable....

 

[The Guard]

Indeed it is.

 

[DKDetective]

That's highly debatable....

Hence my use of the word "arguably". It is an adaptation after all and given the films' different medium and audience, certain things will change. However, personally, I'd say every character he has adapted from the comics retains at least some of his or her key characteristics. Other times change is a good thing. For instance, I doubt you could find anyone who prefers Alfred's pre-Crisis history to his post-Crisis back story. Moreover, I know some here complain about Caine-Alfred's Cockney accent and seeming un-Butler-like characterization, but comics like Year One and others hinted at a military past. I know Year One references that Thomas Wayne hired Alfred for his training in combat medicine and I believe there are silver age references to Alfred having been a spy in the past.

 

[Travesty]

Hence my use of the word "arguably". It is an adaptation after all and given the films' different medium and audience, certain things will change. However, personally, I'd say every character he has adapted from the comics retains at least some of his or her key characteristics. Other times change is a good thing. For instance, I doubt you could find anyone who prefers Alfred's pre-Crisis history to his post-Crisis back story. Moreover, I know some here complain about Caine-Alfred's Cockney accent and seeming un-Butler-like characterization, but comics like Year One and others hinted at a military past. I know Year One references that Thomas Wayne hired Alfred for his training in combat medicine and I believe there are silver age references to Alfred having been a spy in the past.

I would say every movie has done a good job of doing that. It's just what you prefer....

 

[Nave 'Torment']

i can't be the only one who wants to pull off that Bale-do

 

[Darthhawkeye]

I also think as we as fans grow older, "our" version of the character starts to be the "outdated" version; these characters have been around, some anyway, for almost 100 years! It's like SHerlock Holmes, there's gonna be slight variations to the characters. In a comic book sense, people are annoyed that Spidey in the new movie is a skateborder and still a "nerd". Nerds are not depicted in movies now like they were years ago, wearing a pocket protector and taped up glasses. This is why, with the MAN OF STEEL, Clark Kent's persona needs to be updated. We may want out characters to be like WE remember them, but there is always a new generation that remembers them differently.

 

[kvz5]

LOTS of stuff from the production notes:

http://www.thedarkknightrises.com/downloads/TDKR_productionNotes.pdf

Here are some of the parts that stood out but I suggest reading the entire thing because it's a fantastic read:

Christian Bale, who reprises the film’s title role, details, “In ‘Batman Begins,’ you see the tragedy and the pain that motivates this angry young man, who feels useless and is searching for a path—who wants to find out who he is and what he can become. Then in ‘The Dark Knight,’ he’s discovered that path. He is useful; he is doing what he imagines is the best thing for him to be doing in his life. Now, we are eight years on and he has lost the one thing that gave him a purpose...until he is forced to deal with a new threat to the city and to himself.”

“This is the first time it appears highly unlikely that Batman will come out on top in a physical altercation,” Bale allows. “He has been dormant for years, so he’s in a weakened condition to begin with, and Bane is not only incredibly strong but ruthless in terms of his sheer militancy and the ideology that drives him.”

Taking on the dual role of Bruce Wayne and Batman for the third and final time, Christian Bale says, “Bruce feels absolutely isolated since the tragedy of losing the woman he loved, Rachel, and the terrible turn of events with what happened to Harvey Dent. He carries a certain amount of guilt that if he had not chosen the course of becoming Batman, none of that would have happened. His belief has been rocked, and that has caught up with him, physically and emotionally. But how much longer can he allow the pain of what has happened in his life control what he does with his life? And at what point does it start to become completely self-destructive?”

Nolan observes that, in giving up the guise of Batman for all those years, Bruce has, in a very real way, sacrificed both identities. “We come back to find a man who is no longer on a mission, even though that had always been the goal.”

“On the surface, Gotham has become what Bruce had hoped for,” Thomas adds, “but because it was all founded on a lie, nothing is quite that simple. It falls along the lines of ‘be careful what you wish for’ because without Batman, Bruce has no sense of purpose.”

“The reason I have always gravitated to the character of Batman is that, as often noted, he is a superhero with no super powers, apart from his wealth,” Nolan says. “His extraordinary nature has always come down to his extreme motivation and sheer dedication, which makes him a very credible individual.”
“One of the great things about this character is that the least relatable thing about him is his billionaire status. Having those kinds of resources is something very few people could ever fathom. But the rest of it is understandable from an emotional perspective,” Bale comments.

“It’s been very rewarding to watch Christian chart the progression of his role through the three films,” says Nolan. “He always had a strong commitment to finding the truth of the character, and I think you especially see that in this film, where he really embraced that Bruce is older, but not necessarily wiser. It’s a very thoughtful performance, and that’s what you consistently get from a talent like Christian.”

 

[kvz5]

Catwoman's effect:

In spite of Bruce Wayne’s seeming absence, Gotham’s most influential citizens have gathered at Wayne Manor for a benefit honoring Harvey Dent Day. It is the perfect hunting ground for an audacious and undeniably attractive cat burglar, whose name is Selina Kyle. Her encounter with Bruce Wayne has an unexpected effect on him.

Bale reveals, “What really impacts Bruce is that, after years of isolation, he’s meeting this woman he finds fascinating and funny. He suddenly recognizes he’s been seeking something, even unconsciously...that he’s lost all the color in his life and needs some human contact.”

Anne Hathaway asserts, “I think Bruce owes Selina a big thank you because he was leading a pretty lonely life until she came in and got his blood pumping and reminded him that there are fun people out there in the world. One of the things that fans have always enjoyed about Bruce and Selina is the playful side of their relationship. They may operate very differently, but they actually have a lot in common: they like to keep certain things hidden; they’re usually several steps ahead of everyone else in the room; and they prefer to dress in black,” she smiles. “I had so much fun working with Christian. He’s quick to laugh and have a good time, but he’s also so solid. He’s the kind of actor that raises your game.”

Miranda's effect:

The character of Miranda Tate can also relate to Bruce, albeit from a place of affluence. Cast in the role, Marion Cotillard notes, “They both have a lot of money and are trying to use it in a good way, so they understand each other right away.”

Bale agrees. “Miranda is somebody who is encouraging Bruce to use his resources for the betterment of Gotham through an environmental project. She is beautiful, smart and altruistic, and all the good that she aspires to earns his respect and also intrigues him a great deal.”

Alfred's effect:

Inarguably, the person closest to Bruce is Alfred Pennyworth, who Bale says “has been the one constant throughout his life...the only family he has left. Alfred has seen him grow up, watched him become a man and seen the pain he’s gone through. He accepted Bruce’s need to honor his parents and try to right the wrongs of their deaths, but equally he recognizes that his parents would be desperately unhappy that he’s not living any kind of life. There’s always been that caution from Alfred that this is not the best thing for Bruce in the long run, and it comes to a head in this story.”

Nolan expounds, “When we first explored the relationship between Alfred and Bruce in ‘Batman Begins,’ it was immediately apparent to me that I only understood Alfred’s endorsement of Bruce’s extreme action in creating the Batman persona if there would be an end to it—if there was seen to be a time when Batman had acted as a catalyst to change Gotham and then Bruce could move on from that. In ‘The Dark Knight Rises,’ we’re dealing with Alfred’s frustration that Bruce has not been able to extricate himself from being Batman. Even though he has no longer been going out every night wearing the cape and cowl, he clearly has not been able to put it behind him, and Alfred feels it’s his duty to help Bruce find a way to do that.”

Reprising the part of Alfred, Michael Caine remarks, “It hurts Alfred to tell Bruce that he knew there was nothing for him in Gotham City but pain and tragedy, but he was right. I was thinking that, in terms of the audience, Alfred represents us in this incredible world. He is our spokesman. He’s not tough like the others; he reacts like an ordinary human being in this situation.”

“What Michael has always brought to Alfred is tremendous heart,” Nolan says. “Watching Christian and Michael play out the unique relationship between these two characters has been one of the great joys of working on these films.”

 

[kvz5]

I think Bale pissed off whoever wrote the production notes because his' was the shortest and they didn't even mention his Oscar win. The rest of the cast got way more detailed bios.

CHRISTIAN BALE (Bruce Wayne/Batman) was born in Wales and grew up in England and the USA. He made his film debut in Steven Spielberg’s World War II epic “Empire of the Sun.”

His film work to date also includes “Henry V,” “The Portrait of a Lady,” “The Secret Agent,” “Metroland,” “Velvet Goldmine,” “All the Little Animals,” “American Psycho,” “Laurel Canyon,” “The Machinist,” “Batman Begins,” “The New World,” “The Prestige,” “Harsh Times,” “Rescue Dawn,” “3:10 to Yuma,” “I’m Not There,” “The Dark Knight,” “Public Enemies,” “The Fighter,” and “The Flowers of War.”

Audiences will next see him in Terrence Malick’s “Knight of Cups,” and he recently completed filming “Out of the Furnace.”

 

[pixiesvision]

I think Bale pissed off whoever wrote the production notes because his' was the shortest and they didn't even mention his Oscar win. The rest of the cast got way more detailed bios.

Actually, the actors submit these themselves. They don't write it, necessarily, but someone from their "team" does, which the actor approves. Bale used to have a longer bio, including where he was born at least, but he shortened it for his recent films. Speaks more towards him being super private, but he could at least include Oscar winner in there t:

 

[kvz5]

Actually, the actors submit these themselves. They don't write it, necessarily, but someone from their "team" does, which the actor approves. Bale used to have a longer bio, including where he was born at least, but he shortened it for his recent films. Speaks more towards him being super private, but he could at least include Oscar winner in there t:

Oh, is that how that works? The Oscar Winner should've at least been included. His bio looks so out of place compared to the others. Damn Bale. Give yourself some credit!

ETA: I just checked the TDK bios and you're right. His bio is the same thing. Super short and no mentions of awards/recognitions. Completely different from the rest of the cast. I didn't realize that's what he's been doing.

 

[StianSteel]

http://www.insighteditions.com/The-Dark-Knight-Manual-Documents/dp/1608871045

According to this Bruce was Batman for 5 years between BB and TDK. Hmm....

 

[JackWhite]

http://www.insighteditions.com/The-Dark-Knight-Manual-Documents/dp/1608871045

According to this Bruce was Batman for 5 years between BB and TDK. Hmm....

Really? Well if it's in writing...

 

[Zatanna]

http://www.insighteditions.com/The-Dark-Knight-Manual-Documents/dp/1608871045

According to this Bruce was Batman for 5 years between BB and TDK. Hmm....

Oh, okay then LOL.

 

[Travesty]

I'm confused.

 

[TheVerbos]

Bale is just no frills. I think you can tell which films he's not proud of. Notice that he mentions neither Newsies nor Swing Kids. I think he doesn't mention awards because he feels like that doesn't necessarily make him a better actor.

 

[KalMart]

Bale is just no frills. I think you can tell which films he's not proud of. Notice that he mentions neither Newsies nor Swing Kids. I think he doesn't mention awards because he feels like that doesn't necessarily make him a better actor.

Or Shaft.

 

[craigdbfan]

He was awesome in Shaft. See ya when I see ya, slick.

 

[TheVerbos]

It doesn't mention Little Women either. Perhaps it's not that he avoids listing what he's not proud of (I don't think Howl's Moving Castle is on there and I don't see a reason to distance himself from that) but instead the attitude is, "Eh, they know me. Just throw it up there."

 

[Cassandra Cain]

http://www.insighteditions.com/The-Dark-Knight-Manual-Documents/dp/1608871045

According to this Bruce was Batman for 5 years between BB and TDK. Hmm....

You know, even if this is wrong, I was always confused about the time between BB and TDK. For instance, look at Gordon's son. In BB you can clearly see in one scene that he's a toddler (no way that was his sister; clearly it's a boy Barbara Gordon is feeding in that high chair). Then, suddenly in TDK he's like 7/8 yrs old. Huh???

 

[KalMart]

He was awesome in Shaft. See ya when I see ya, slick.

He was laughable just like the rest of the movie.

 

[Baneis8feettall]

He was awesome in Shaft. See ya when I see ya, slick.

He is best at playing cocky *****bag. It's scary it looks so natural on him. t:

 

[kvz5]

He was awesome in Shaft. See ya when I see ya, slick.

 

[kvz5]

From Geoff's article:

http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2012...-christopher-nolan-takes-batman-to-new-place/

As “Dark Knight Rises” opens, Bruce Wayne (Christian Bale) is a sullen shadow of himself, and instead of his Batman mask he hides behind a scraggly hermit’s beard. Eight years have passed since the murder of his true love, Rachel Dawes, and the fatal tumble of the deranged Harvey Dent. With the weight of those memories, the recluse must lean on a cane as he wanders a sealed-off wing of Wayne Manor. The world outside out claws away at that isolation, almost literally in the case of Selina Kyle (Anne Hathaway) the femme fatale traditionally called Catwoman.

Some scenes of Wayne’s reclusive bitterness and the urban bedlam evoke the landmark Frank Miller 1986 limited series “The Dark Knight Returns,” which (along with “Watchmen&#8221 propelled much of the comics world into deep, dark grit for the next decade.