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The Dark Knight Rises Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Which reminds me...I do need a new Avatar, lol.




Merry Christmas,





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That's an awesome avatar, milost. Well done :up:

That would look great on you, Batsy. Joker approves.
 
That's an awesome avatar, milost. Well done :up:

That would look great on you, Batsy. Joker approves.

Thanks man.

I accidentally "forgot" about the black and white serials, Schumacher and new 52 incarnations though. :oldrazz:
 
I mean, its not like Selina accepted Playboy Bruce Wayne either. It's not until Bruce loses his money that Selina shows even the slightest bit of compassion for Bruce...even then, Bruce recognizes that she's lying. It's when she realizes that Bruce is Batman that she changes her feelings towards him.

Either way, I can't judge Rachel for not caring for a persona that isn't real.
It's at least more acceptance for the Batman persona (which is more true to Bruce) than Rachel had.

Theatricality, despite being physically taught to him by the LoS, is part of what Bruce is. At some point, you gotta admit that flying around crashing into buildings and using a giant tank as a car isn't just about playing the part of an urban legend, but something that you personally enjoy. :oldrazz:

I can't hold that against Rachel considering that this version of Bruce dosen't want to be Batman for long either. If this were the "I'm all about the mission" Batman of the comics, I could see your point. In the end, she leaves him because she realizes Bruce hasn't let go of his demons yet.
I think they were both lying to themselves at the end of BB. Rachel really wanted someone like Dent - someone who tirelessly worked in public for the greater good, being a role model for the rest of society. Bruce was NEVER going to be that. Even before Batman, he decides to go snooping around in the criminal underworld. He takes up with a shadowy organization. Then, when he learns some nice skills that would have made him a good cop or soldier, he decides to be a mysterious urban legend instead.

He even tries the philanthropist Bruce Wayne route between TDK and TDKR, and when that failed, he became an empty shell of a man. Batman gave him meaning, even when Batman did fail at times.

He was never going to be a good match for the honest lawyer who worked in the DA's office ever since she graduated from law school, doing things by the book. They just weren't operating at the same speed.

Also, people are forgetting that Selina wanted him to quit being Batman as well ("Run away with me"), not to mention the pressure Alfred put on him to finally retire. In truth, the only character who actually didn't want Bruce to change was Fox.

This version of Selina and Bruce only get together when Bruce stops being Batman....which is basically what Rachel initially wanted to do in the first place.
I interpreted that as Selina not wanting Bruce to go off and get himself killed for what she saw was no good reason. She admires Batman's Robin-Hooding, but she doesn't want him to die.

I think that's what Alfred ultimately wanted for Bruce too. In TDK, he actually pushes Bruce to keep doing the Batman stuff after Rachel's death, to not give up, but when Bruce loses his will to live, Alfred wants it to stop. Ultimately, it'd always been about caring for the man.

And IMO, that was due to lucky timing than anything else. If he hadn't given up Batman, he might have been able to talk her into Robin-Hooding with him as Catwoman. I imagine Robin-Hooding is exactly what they're doing even though they've both given up their personas. I don't see them resting on their laurels, doing "normal people stuff." Not one bit. :woot:

I think she helped Bruce because she cares for Bruce, not for the whole city. She does not share his level of idealism or compassion. And as much as people like to say he and Rachel were incompatible, Rachel did share his idealism and compassion.
Selina does care for people, just when it's easy for herself. She didn't have to rescue that little boy from his attackers. But she doesn't put herself into danger for other people, not until she met Bruce. Her number one rule was "save yourself" and she broke that one for him.

Rachel shared Bruce's idealism, yes, but certainly not his methods, and that's where they're completely incompatible. It's the same way two people of differing political parties, despite ultimately wanting the same things, often don't get along. :oldrazz:

If it's his one rule, I'm pretty sure its his "Number one" rule by default, lol. Either way, Catwoman murders Bane in cold blood, when she really didn't have to. Firing a cannon is overkill.
I'm not entirely sure what she was supposed to do when she's just arrived on the Batpod and Bane has a shotgun to Batman's face. Run over them both? :oldrazz:

Also, it's not cold blood if you can invoke defense of another person. Even in a non-comic-book-movie setting.

Joker knew Batman all of what, two weeks and showed a better understanding of him than Selina did. I don't think Selina necessarily "accepted" him more than Rachel did. Relationships are sometimes about timing. Bruce wasn't ready to move on from being Batman at the time of BB/TDK, which is one of the main factors is Rachel choosing Harvey. However, by the end of TDKR, not only is Rachel dead, but Bruce realizes she chose harvey. Not to mention that the love interest he had for most of that movie was a lie created by his enemy. The timing for him to get with Selina was perfect.
I think Joker understood what the Batman persona really meant for society, more than Bruce ever did. I don't think Joker actually understands Bruce Wayne and who he is under the mask. I don't even believe Joker expected Batman's self-sacrifice at the end of TDK. (Although I'm sure that he would have found it screamingly hilarious.)

Yes, relationships are about timing. But they're also about acceptance, being on the same path, and simply operating on each other's level. Selina checked those boxes at the end of TDKR more than Rachel ever did.
 
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Anita, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this matter, lol...I know a lot of people feel the way you do, I just don't see it that way.


Merry Christmas,





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thebatman_zps179e56e7.gif.html

SWEET. Thanks, man.
 
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No problem.


As for this Selina vs. Rachel debacle, neither of them were worthy soul mates of Bruce. The only one that "got" Bruce was that Russian Ballerina, Natasha with the bad accent. She clearly thought Batman was rad and put up with Playboy Bruce.

I bet Bruce dumped Selina after a day or so in Italy and she went crawling back to Jenny.
 
Congrats to Bale and Sibi on child number two!

And once again kudos to Bale for reaching out to those battling with that terrible disease. Always love hearing about stuff like that.
 
The one thing I'll never understand is how people complain that Nolan's Bruce/Batman didn't do enough detective stuff. I think most people are mistaken on what real police detectives actually do. However, looking back through the whole trilogy, I think he's done his fair share:


Batman Begins
*Before donning the costume he surveils the mob while undercover
*Gathered the necessary evidence (shipping manifests, photos), BEFORE he makes a move on Falcone in the docks.
*The "swear to me" interrogation
*Following up on the lead at the Narrows. He even performs some reconaissance with the periscope before entering.


The Dark Knight
*tracking the Mob's cash flow with trackable cash
*looking through Lau's financial records
*the stupid fingerprints from a brick (I hate this CSI ******** sometimes)
*more surveillance (phone sonar).
*demonstrated knowledge of the probably the entire GCPD roster (he seems to be able to name them from quick facial recognition).


The Dark Knight Rises
*Research on Selina Kyle
*Questioning Selina Kyle about the fingerprints and Bane
***OK that kinda makes him look like a Selina Kyle stalker but still.



Surveillance, interviewing/questioning, and researching documentation make up a big big chunk of what real life investigators and detectives actually do. Bruce/Batman did a lot of that in TDKt, why is it that people still complain that he didnt do enough "detective" stuff??
 
There were plenty, but people expect him to be the world's greatest detective so to them it's not nearly enough.

This was never that kind of Batman though. He's a detective and when he does work, he does it very well with equipment that the police can't access.
 
BB and TDK definitely had the most detective work, but TDKR wasn't about his skills as Batman, so that was completely fine.

I also like how we see Bruce following up on Gordon, taking photographs of him, in BB just to see if he's a cop that can be trusted. Another one is when Lucius tells Bruce he thinks Lau is involved in illegal dealings and Bruce smiles and tells him to cancel the deal, then Lucius says "you already knew". Stuff like that is very brief, but it is there.
 
I loved the fact that the series established Bruce as being an experienced smuggler and infiltrator even before he meets Ra's. We see him leave Gotham and travel around the world without money in Begins, he's the one who calls in the South Korean smugglers to evac Lau from Hong Kong, and his return to Gotham manages to avoid tipping Bane off at all.

Makes me speculate that he arranged the post-Clean Slate travel plans for Selina and himself!
 
I loved the fact that the series established Bruce as being an experienced smuggler and infiltrator even before he meets Ra's. We see him leave Gotham and travel around the world without money in Begins, he's the one who calls in the South Korean smugglers to evac Lau from Hong Kong, and his return to Gotham manages to avoid tipping Bane off at all.

Makes me speculate that he arranged the post-Clean Slate travel plans for Selina and himself!


As one of the few who liked how TDKR ended, I'd like to imagine that Selina and Bruce are going around the world as Robin Hood types.
 
I loved the fact that the series established Bruce as being an experienced smuggler and infiltrator even before he meets Ra's. We see him leave Gotham and travel around the world without money in Begins, he's the one who calls in the South Korean smugglers to evac Lau from Hong Kong, and his return to Gotham manages to avoid tipping Bane off at all.

Makes me speculate that he arranged the post-Clean Slate travel plans for Selina and himself!

The whole ending is basically one big execution of prep-time.
 
That was pretty neat.

Worst offender has to be that awkward staging during the final exchange of the Hong Kong fight scene. I don't know how that wasn't fixed during the editing process. I still love that scene though. Excellent display of Batman's tactical and infiltration abilities.
 
I love the way fighting scenes were done in Begins. It adds to the mystique of the character.
 

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