The Dark Knight Rises Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 1

[MessiahDecoy123]

Good thing they did it right, then

Nope it's James Bond in a Bat-suit.

 

[The Joker]

Nope it's James Bond in a Bat-suit.

Do you mean Lucius practically being Q to Bale's Batman?

 

[TinkerTailor]

You'd think Nolan had made an adaptation or something.

 

[Baneis8feettall]

Nope it's James Bond in a Bat-suit.

So which parts are ignored for you?

 

[ThePhantasm]

Do you mean Lucius practically being Q to Bale's Batman?

Alfred is basically Miss Moneypenny. I mean, his name is even Pennyworth.

Plus he and Bruce have that weird humor / joking around between them that is basically flirting.

 

[Bim]

I was dying from laughing at that interview.

Oh gosh, I nearly died with that whole perfectly timed pictures bit , but of course, i also enjoyed this explanation

Spoiler

 

[The Batman]

^ Yes, that interview was hilarious.

After watching that one, I spent half the day watching other Norton episodes. I loved the one with Jon Hamm/Charlize Theron/Steve Coogan

 

[The Joker]

Alfred is basically Miss Moneypenny. I mean, his name is even Pennyworth.

Plus he and Bruce have that weird humor / joking around between them that is basically flirting.

If you ignore Alfred being male, and Bruce's butler waiting on him hand and foot, yeah he could be Miss Moneypenny

 

[Nave 'Torment']

I still think you guys wouldn't have liked Rachel no matter who was playing her in TDK. It's not as if Maggie is a mediocre actress. She's good to great, at least imo. Blame it on the script and her direction under Nolan.

Well I think it was pretty much a given that Rachel Dawse needed to die... not only because she was the odd-one out in Begins, or because she's Bruce's first crush, or because she friggin friendzoend him :P

But because, at the end of the day, she had to play a crucial role in Bruce's journey towards becoming Batman. He kept equating her with Gotham City. Her archetype as the maiden quite naturally succumbs to death. I'm still working on that article and will post it here once its up. But my point is that Rachel had to go. On an archetypal level. She's Mal before the plunge.

I think the problem for me was that Maggie and Bale just had zero chemistry.

I think that was the point. They were never supposed to have chemistry together. They were not compatible or complimentary.

It... yeah it reminds me of a girl I know personally so shut up

But yeah. I found that lack of chemistry to be substantial. She was doing great with Dent.

Nave, unfortunately, I didn't transcribe it. Annefan and Atom Ant did the hard work on that one.

Ah okay, my bad YOu were saying you were gonna last night and i thought u did but hey. At least it's done Good job Atom Ant and AnneFan.

Lol, Fox's writing was hard to read already but at the time I had a bad headache and blurry vision. There were some words I wasn't sure of, so I did the closest I could. I wanted to move ahead and do the whole thing as quickly as possible.

Better than reading the actual thing! And makes sense so yeah -- job well done.

Lucius doesn't play scrabble. He plays scribble. Ahahaah!

I feel that we've haven't seen anything yet. Brace yourselves for crazy hermit Bruce.

Bruce's always been a hermit He's the SUPERHERO of hermits.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Do you mean Lucius practically being Q to Bale's Batman?

Well the man did acknowledge his theft. And it brought years of Bond vs. Bat debates to a standstill. But heck, at least we get the Lambo. t:

You'd think Nolan had made an adaptation or something.

a better one at that. but heck I get that he's taken plot-devices and themes from the Bond franchise, but it does go back to that general 60s fad, and as a Batman fan I see those elements of sci-fi and spy as thematic reflections on the silver age comics. *shrugs*

Then again, I'm still ignorant of 007.

Alfred is basically Miss Moneypenny. I mean, his name is even Pennyworth.

Plus he and Bruce have that weird humor / joking around between them that is basically flirting.

 

[TinkerTailor]

a better one at that. but heck I get that he's taken plot-devices and themes from the Bond franchise, but it does go back to that general 60s fad, and as a Batman fan I see those elements of sci-fi and spy as thematic reflections on the silver age comics. *shrugs*

Then again, I'm still ignorant of 007.

Oh I wasn't accusing him of doing that, although, yes there are tenuous links.

I suppose I was a little frustrated that some people still seem to be confused that Nolan's films aren't a direct lift of the comic. He's making an adaptation, and like any adaptation he needs to pick and choose the character traits and themes relevant to the stories he wants to tell, and so far he's picked and chosen impeccably.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Oh I wasn't accusing him of doing that, although, yes there are tenuous links.

I suppose I was a little frustrated that some people still seem to be confused that Nolan's films aren't a direct lift of the comic. He's making an adaptation, and like any adaptation he needs to pick and choose the character traits and themes relevant to the stories he wants to tell, and so far he's picked and chosen impeccably.

That he has

I was looking through the Batman Earth One previews, and.. yeah.. it's just too similar to Batman Begins (thus far) to have merited another retelling. If anything, The Sean Connery Alfred just seems to be pushing it for the sake of change. I hope it's more than the "Ultimate" version of DC's Batman.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Just sliding this in here. From a few days ago (it's in the News thread).

Though plot details are scarce, Nolan tells us the story picks up eight years after the events depicted in The Dark Knight, after Bruce Wayne has saved Gotham but lost both his identity as a force for good and the woman who was closest to him in the bargain. Now, he’s isolated, having locked himself away from the public eye.

“He’s frozen in time, really,” Nolan explains. “He’s given up being Batman because he’s not needed at this point. It was very important to us for the ending of the last film to have an effect on Gotham, and it has. Superficially, Gotham is in a much better place.”

While Nolan says it’s difficult to reduce the story to a word or a concept, “The jumping off point of the film is about the consequences of actions,” he notes. “A lot of very important things happened in The Dark Knight that formed a satisfying conclusion, and we’re trying to advance the effects of those events with reality and gravity. So, it’s about consequences. It’s about redemption. It’s about a lot of different things.”

http://cinewebradio.com/index.php?o...ark-knight-rises-&catid=29:the-news&Itemid=41

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Redemption.

That's the word he's looking for there. It's about redemption. And you don't get better at redemption than from the archetypal perspective of a hero who's trapped / sacrificed / crucified and must be born again.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

Well I think it was pretty much a given that Rachel Dawse needed to die... not only because she was the odd-one out in Begins, or because she's Bruce's first crush, or because she friggin friendzoend him :P

But because, at the end of the day, she had to play a crucial role in Bruce's journey towards becoming Batman. He kept equating her with Gotham City. Her archetype as the maiden quite naturally succumbs to death. I'm still working on that article and will post it here once its up. But my point is that Rachel had to go. On an archetypal level. She's Mal before the plunge.

This is why it's nice to see you posting around here again. Definitely looking forward to that article.

I highly recommend it, especially if you havent seen the fighter yet.

Get on it now! Especially The Fighter.

Hehe, will do. I really want to see Rescue Dawn and maybe even Laurel Canyon as well.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Just sliding this in here. From a few days ago (it's in the News thread).

Though plot details are scarce, Nolan tells us the story picks up eight years after the events depicted in The Dark Knight, after Bruce Wayne has saved Gotham but lost both his identity as a force for good and the woman who was closest to him in the bargain. Now, he’s isolated, having locked himself away from the public eye.

“He’s frozen in time, really,” Nolan explains. “He’s given up being Batman because he’s not needed at this point. It was very important to us for the ending of the last film to have an effect on Gotham, and it has. Superficially, Gotham is in a much better place.”

While Nolan says it’s difficult to reduce the story to a word or a concept, “The jumping off point of the film is about the consequences of actions,” he notes. “A lot of very important things happened in The Dark Knight that formed a satisfying conclusion, and we’re trying to advance the effects of those events with reality and gravity. So, it’s about consequences. It’s about redemption. It’s about a lot of different things.”


http://cinewebradio.com/index.php?o...ark-knight-rises-&catid=29:the-news&Itemid=41

I like that statement. See because in "Batman Begins" Bruce created the persona of Batman to be an inspiration for the people of Gotham to represent a symbol that the citizens would respect and the criminals would fear. And for a time prior to "The Dark Knight" he accomplished that but he also issued a challenge to the criminal element that ultimately lead to The coming of The Joker.

In "TDK" Bruce see the effects of Batman having on everyone including himself and he comes to the conclusion that he doesn't want to be the Heroic face of Gotham that title belongs to Harvey Dent : The White Knight from a political view, However he comes to see that Dent isn't completely incorruptible so when he actual does become Two-Face and falls, He takes the burden of Dent's crime to keep the hope alive for the citizens.

IMO that was a very critical mistake and I'm hoping by the conclusion of TDKR, He realizes that his Destiny is to be the protector of Gotham for as long as the city needs him.

 

[Travesty]

IMO that was a very critical mistake and I'm hoping by the conclusion of TDKR, He realizes that his Destiny is to be the protector of Gotham for as long as the city needs him.

Meeeeeee too.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

This is why it's nice to see you posting around here again. Definitely looking forward to that article.

Hehe, will do. I really want to see Rescue Dawn and maybe even Laurel Canyon as well.

Thanks for the vote of confidence BB

Both Rescue Dawn and Laurel Canyon feature great performances by Bale. And really two different kinds of performances altogether.

I like that statement. See because in "Batman Begins" Bruce created the persona of Batman to be an inspiration for the people of Gotham to represent a symbol that the citizens would respect and the criminals would fear. And for a time prior to "The Dark Knight" he accomplished that but he also issued a challenge to the criminal element that ultimately lead to The coming of The Joker.

In "TDK" Bruce see the effects of Batman having on everyone including himself and he comes to the conclusion that he doesn't want to be the Heroic face of Gotham that title belongs to Harvey Dent : The White Knight from a political view, However he comes to see that Dent isn't completely incorruptible so when he actual does become Two-Face and falls, He takes the burden of Dent's crime to keep the hope alive for the citizens.

IMO that was a very critical mistake and I'm hoping by the conclusion of TDKR, He realizes that his Destiny is to be the protector of Gotham for as long as the city needs him.

I completely agree with that -- for all the great things Harvey has done, and we do respect him and all that -- he did succumb to being Two-Face, he did grow disillusioned and was just as corrupted as the Joker wanted him to be. I personally see Harvey's death as a suicide anyway. But Bruce is the true hero here. He didn't succumb even when he "lost everything" i think that resilience in itself makes him the better hero of the two. And why he doesn't have to "die a hero" OR "live long to become the villain " -- the time when Gotham needs Batman is going to happen in TDKR, he has to grow beyond that cycle of life & death.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

Thanks for the vote of confidence BB

Both Rescue Dawn and Laurel Canyon feature great performances by Bale. And really two different kinds of performances altogether.

No problem. I must confess that I'm also looking forward to Laurel Canyon because of...ahem, Kate Beckinsale.

I completely agree with that -- for all the great things Harvey has done, and we do respect him and all that -- he did succumb to being Two-Face, he did grow disillusioned and was just as corrupted as the Joker wanted him to be. I personally see Harvey's death as a suicide anyway. But Bruce is the true hero here. He didn't succumb even when he "lost everything" i think that resilience in itself makes him the better hero of the two. And why he doesn't have to "die a hero" OR "live long to become the villain " -- the time when Gotham needs Batman is going to happen in TDKR, he has to grow beyond that cycle of life & death.

Is it just me or does the bolded part go unnoticed a lot of times when it comes to discussing TDK? That's always one of the aspects I took away from TDK, that despite Harvey being practically an angelic savior in the eyes of Gotham's citizens, it was actually Bruce/Batman who proved that he was the better man, the true hero in the end. Every time I watch TDK and it moves towards the end I think 'how does Batman keep going after all of the **** he's been through?'...and to do what he does at the end in spite of all he's been through, that right there is why I feel TDK is rather tragic in a way. I also feel that this particular aspect is a comment on human nature's habit of overlooking and not recognising the merits of true heroes.

 

[Herolee10]

I just hope that we get to see a scene that's the opposite of what we saw in TDK where all of the cops and people of Gotham were lobbying to have Batman turn himself in at the conference in order to supposedly stop Joker's killing spree.

It'd be nice to hear all of the people of Gotham advocating Batman positively instead.

 

[TheVerbos]

I think that was the point. They were never supposed to have chemistry together. They were not compatible or complimentary.

It... yeah it reminds me of a girl I know personally so shut up

But yeah. I found that lack of chemistry to be substantial. She was doing great with Dent.
.

I don't think the lack of chemistry between the performers was intentional. If that were case, why would we feel a loss if they didn't end up together? It lessens the impact if we truly didn't feel as if they could be together.

 

[The Batman]

^ Not only that, but from interviews and comments, you were supposed to get the idea that, up until she wrote that letter, Rachel was truly having a hard time choosing between the two men.

 

[JackWhite]

^ Not only that, but from interviews and comments, you were supposed to get the idea that, up until she wrote that letter, Rachel was truly having a hard time choosing between the two men.

I got that feeling when she couldn't give Harvey a straight answer at the fundraiser.

To Maggie's credit, I think she really pulled off the inner conflict of not knowing which man she wanted to be with in that specific scene. I think that might have been her best scene in the entire film, IMO.

 

[Brother Jack]

I don't think the lack of chemistry between the performers was intentional. If that were case, why would we feel a loss if they didn't end up together? It lessens the impact if we truly didn't feel as if they could be together.

But they couldn't be together. That was obvious, to me at least. Bruce looked to Rachel because she would have been his opportunity for a normal life, an opportunity that was more or less just an illusion. Bruce's darkness and his need for Batman wouldn't permit it. They were never soulmates.

 

[TheVerbos]

But they couldn't be together. That was obvious, to me at least. Bruce looked to Rachel because she would have been his opportunity for a normal life, an opportunity that was more or less just an illusion. Bruce's darkness and his need for Batman wouldn't permit it. They were never soulmates.

I feel like the conversation is getting confused.

...I'm not speaking in terms of consideration for Bruce's demons etc. What I'm addressing precedes even that.

I'm saying, 'It doesn't work if we couldn't have pictured them (Batman exisitng or not) as a couple'.

^ In that case, there is no romance to lose.

Like, does it seem as if these people even like each other? Do they have an ease and compatibility (Batman existing or not)?

I thought that the story was supposed to make us care that he lost a chance at romance. If their chemistry is such that it appears as if that couldn't have a possibility, then his loss lessens.