Cinematic Civil War:MCU vs DCCU - - - - - - - - - - - Part 20

[Ivan Drago]

Chief Brody's role is definitely more important than Quint.

 

[MadVillainy]

Batgirl is probably perfectly within Whedon's wheelhouse, but I have to agree that it's a bit tiresome to see everything thrown behind the Bat side of the universe. I want to see more original characters get their time to shine first.

I'm just very confused by so many things surrounding this announcement

Why is Whedon going to a studio whose last 2 films (3 if the WW rumors are to be believed) are riddled with negative executive meddling. Especially after his experience with AoU
Why is DCEU announcing another movie

The idea of it is cool. I think it's a better idea than Nightwing but I just can't get behind it until I see a DCEU movie I like

 

[Iceman]

I'm just very confused by so many things surrounding this announcement

Why is Whedon going to a studio whose last 2 films (3 if the WW rumors are to be believed) are riddled with negative executive meddling. Especially after his experience with AoU
Why is DCEU announcing another movie

The idea of it is cool. I think it's a better idea than Nightwing but I just can't get behind it until I see a DCEU movie I like

Batgirl isn't core to the DCEU so fewer knock-on effects and you'd hope there wouldn't need to be too much executive meddling.

 

[DACrowe]

I do agree in a way that Cap had to share this film slightly at the expense of his personal stories with WS/Peggy's death etc. To me Stark only stole' it though to the extent that a great villain might influence a hero's film. And ideally that would be to fairly complement the hero rather than in most Marvel films where the hero dominates proceedings because the villain is weak.

Until recently Wolverine starred in every X-film apart from First Class. RDJ mainly had a few cameos outside of his solo films and the teamups, and to me despite being the MCU's no.1 figure, his influence wasn't as dominant as Wolverine's where many other major X-Men didn't even get a look in after a decade of films. There are plenty of MCU films that don't have any RDJ or just a few minutes of him too. I don't think the influence is comparable and even if it was, I believe the future will see a lot less of all the original heroes than we have seen to date as the new heroes emerge and everyone's trilogies come to an end.

Yes, I do think Wolverine got the lion's share more than Downey's Iron Man has. Although, I think it is changing a bit. When folks complain about Jackman, they're obviously talking about the original trilogy. Other than cameos (a bad one in Apocalypse's case), Logan only appeared in Days of Future Past as a lead in the new series, and even in DOFP I'd argue he was secondary to Charles Xavier. It is quite telling that the finale is all about Charles, Raven, and Erik.

Meanwhile I find that Marvel Studios is relying on RDJ to spruce up the box office more and more. While the Avengers movies (even though I'm no fan of AOU) are much better about developing the whole ensemble than any of the X-films, Downey is clearly the lead. He has the "arc" in the first Avengers where he must be "the guy who lays down the wire" by taking the nuke out of the city, proving Steve wrong. He also is the one who "ends" the first act by capturing Loki, and drives internal hero conflict in the second act by spying on SHIELD, and then getting in Steve's grill. In AOU, he is the one who creates Ultron and then Vision (well finishes creating Vision). He is the one that Ultron is also obsessed with killing. "He hates you the most."

I think he did have the best role in CW, and honestly elevated it. But part of the reason he is there is that TWS didn't make $750 million WW. With Iron Man in it, they made over $1 billion. Now, he is Peter Parker's mentor, and the Spider-Man: Homecoming trailer makes sure you see Iron Man gets in on the ferry action scene. Naturally, IW will be in big part about Iron Man and Cap reconciling their bad blood, and if I wagered a guess, Avengers 4 will be Downey's last turn, so he'll probably get quite a bit of focus.

... Mind you none of this is bad. I actually like Downey as Iron Man a lot and love what he added to CW. I also am not as reticent about him being a mentor to Spidey as some. I just am noting how Marvel is using Iron Man more as a box office clutch as time goes on.

 

[MadVillainy]

Batgirl isn't core to the DCEU so fewer knock-on effects and you'd hope there wouldn't need to be too much executive meddling.

You would think so.

Could've said the same thing about Suicide Squad

 

[Iceman]

Yes, I do think Wolverine got the lion's share more than Downey's Iron Man mostly has. Although, I think it is changing a bit. When folks say that, they're obviously talking about the original trilogy. Other than cameos, Logan only appeared in Days of Future Past as a lead in the new series, and even in DOFP I'd argue he was secondary to Charles Xavier. It is quite telling that the finale is all about Charles, Raven, and Erik.

Meanwhile I find that Marvel Studios is relying on RDJ to spruce up the box office more and more. While the Avengers movies (even though I'm no fan of AOU) are much better about developing the whole ensemble than any of the X-films, Downey is clearly the lead. He has the "arc" in the first Avengers where he must be "the guy who lays down the wire" by taking the nuke out of the city, proving Steve wrong. He also is the one who "ends" the first act by capturing Loki, and drives internal hero conflict in the second act by spying on SHIELD, and then getting in Steve's grill. In AOU, he is the one who creates Ultron and then Vision (well finishes creating Vision). He is the one that Ultron is also obsessed with killing. "He hates you the most."

I think he did have the best role in CW, and honestly elevated it. But part of the reason he is there is that TWS didn't make $750 million WW. With Iron Man in it, they make over $1 billion. Now, he is Peter Parker's mentor and the Spider-Man: Homecoming trailer makes sure you see Iron Man gets in on the ferry action scene. Naturally, IW will be in big part about Iron Man and Cap reconciling their bad blood, and if I wagered a guess, Avengers 4 will be Downey's last turn, so he'll probably get quite a bit of focus.

... Mind you none of this is bad. I actually like Downey as Iron Man a lot and love what he added to CW. I also am not as reticent about him being a mentor to Spidey as some. I just am noting how Marvel is using Iron Man more as a box office clutch as time goes on.

Fair enough, I agree with most of that. I would like to see RDJ only in cameos after IW if he continues (although would never object to him returning for Avengers/team films), and not significant roles like it looks like he has in Homecoming. I can kind of understand why some people are really put off with his involvement here, and I thought they went a bit too far showing him off in the latest trailer, but I'm not personally put off and think I'll enjoy his contribution to this film.

 

[DACrowe]

My reaction to Whedon news is negative. Now, I appreciate the man for creating the ultimate geekgasm that is the Avengers and he is probably going to do something awesome with Batgirl too. But I don't want DCEU to have successful movies. I realise that this is petty, but I just don't want to support the continuity that has BvS in it.

Ah, continuity is overrated! Whedon is a great choice for Batgirl, and if it is good who cares if it is in continuity with BvS? Logan is in some kind of loose continuity with XOW since they call him James Howlett. But that does not mean you cannot enjoy Logan.

I think Whedon is a great choice for Batgirl and am much more looking forward to that than a solo Batman movie anytime soon.

 

[Iceman]

You would think so.

Could've said the same thing about Suicide Squad

Good point!

 

[MadVillainy]

Good point!

It's sad, but it's true that I can't get excited until something good comes out of the DCEU.
Ayer is a cool director, SS squad sucked
I like some of Snyders work. I hated his 2 DCEU movies

I just don't get why Whedon signs on to do this. But it gives me hope that WB is not meddling as much anymore. Otherwise Whedon is kinda foolish to jump in this water

 

[Kane52630]

Well he is a fan of Batgirl.

 

[MadVillainy]

Well he is a fan of Batgirl.

I'm a fan of all DC characters but I wouldn't hop onto one of their projects if I was a filmmaker because of their reputation for negative executive meddling

That's what I'm saying I hope it signals the end of all that

 

[Kane52630]

Well yeah that's true, maybe he's too naive in thinking he's gonna have it his way?

 

[Iceman]

It's sad, but it's true that I can't get excited until something good comes out of the DCEU.
Ayer is a cool director, SS squad sucked
I like some of Snyders work. I hated his 2 DCEU movies

Yeah I enjoyed both 300 and Watchmen and thought he'd do better in the DCEU - like a 65-70% approval rate and everyone in agreement at least that the visuals were top notch across the board. Then the casting and especially the MoS trailer raised my expectations through the roof of what he could achieve. Out of the 3 projects it's JL I would have said he is suited for but obviously this is his absolute last chance.

I just don't get why Whedon signs on to do this. But it gives me hope that WB is not meddling as much anymore. Otherwise Whedon is kinda foolish to jump in this water

Yeah I might be being an idiotic optimist, but I hope Whedon joining is a good sign of things to come, as you'd expect him to be wary after AoU and having observed the goings on with some recent DC films. That he joins in spite of those must mean he has as idea that things will be ok...please!

 

[Mandon Knight]

Well yeah that's true, maybe he's too naive in thinking he's gonna have it his way?

I just think the AOU soured his film making taste across the board, I personally would have thought with WB not having any 'one' individual in a Feige-esque status, it's more of a team collaborative view as far as I can gather, he'll feel freer to express opinion etc. and if anyone can write dialogue required for this character it's Wheedon.

 

[DACrowe]

I'm a fan of all DC characters but I wouldn't hop onto one of their projects if I was a filmmaker because of their reputation for negative executive meddling

That's what I'm saying I hope it signals the end of all that

Well Whedon burned bridges over at Marvel about this. So if he is this vocal to the fans and in the press, my guess he was even more vocal about signing onto another superhero/blockbuster movie. I think it's telling they made sure to get out there he is PRODUCING it as well as writing and directing. I suspect that he is going to have a lot of creative longitude on this. And unlike Snyder, giving Whedon a lot of rope is a potentially very good thing.

 

[MadVillainy]

Producers still have to answer to people too. Studio heads, etc.

 

[Limonade]

Ah, continuity is overrated! Whedon is a great choice for Batgirl, and if it is good who cares if it is in continuity with BvS? Logan is in some kind of loose continuity with XOW since they call him James Howlett. But that does not mean you cannot enjoy Logan.

I think Whedon is a great choice for Batgirl and am much more looking forward to that than a solo Batman movie anytime soon.

That's what I've been saying these last couple of months!

 

[Zarex]

Well Whedon burned bridges over at Marvel about this. So if he is this vocal to the fans and in the press, my guess he was even more vocal about signing onto another superhero/blockbuster movie. I think it's telling they made sure to get out there he is PRODUCING it as well as writing and directing. I suspect that he is going to have a lot of creative longitude on this. And unlike Snyder, giving Whedon a lot of rope is a potentially very good thing.

I doubt any bridges were burnt. Joss apologized last April for some of his more biting comments made when he was in the throes of exhaustion from making A:AOU. And with Marvel Studios under new management - it was rumored that Whedon's battles were with the now defunct Creative Committee - I could see him working with with Feige in the future. Especially if "Batgirl" is put on the back burner for the "Etta Candy: Origins" movie that is sure to be announced if Wondy is a big hit.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Didn't Whedon say he wanted to make a Black Widow solo? Didn't look like bridges were burned. It's just Marvel doesn't look interested in Widow solo, so Whedon jumped on a different opportunity.

 

[Samuron]

Being an antagonist does not make you a villain. And my point is not who is the protagonist, I am saying who had the better, more important role.

That's why I said he was the antagonist and not the villain, and I do disagree.

Tony really appears in interaction with Steve, or in response to Steve's actions; even his Spiderman segment is part of that.

Sure, he had an important role, but that was necessary; you can't really have a "Civil War" without both sides being prominent.

 

[Iceman]

Ah, continuity is overrated! Whedon is a great choice for Batgirl, and if it is good who cares if it is in continuity with BvS? Logan is in some kind of loose continuity with XOW since they call him James Howlett. But that does not mean you cannot enjoy Logan.

I think Whedon is a great choice for Batgirl and am much more looking forward to that than a solo Batman movie anytime soon.

I think the GA really likes continuity in the MCU and would like it in the DCEU too. In X-Men land there's no point as they've ****ed it up so badly already!

 

[OutOfBoose]

So when does Batgirl come out? In 2020 lol?

 

[Predator jp]

i think the GA don't give a ***** about continuity. they just want good movie and have fun.

 

[Iceman]

i think the GA don't give a ***** about continuity. they just want good movie and have fun.

I reckon the MCU movies would have done a bit less without it. There's no reason for Iron Man 3 to have exploded in box office without that Avengers boost which also helped other films.

 

[DACrowe]

i think the GA don't give a ***** about continuity. they just want good movie and have fun.

I think that is accurate. Continuity seems to be more of a fan, particularly comic book fan, thing.