Duncan Jones' Warcraft - Part 2

[NotSoLongAgo]

BVS taught me that some people should be judged based on their film tastes

 

[redhawk23]

What's your opinion on why people like/love BvS?

They are a very small minority and largely a crowd who agree with Snyder's interpretation that Superman is boring. There are people on a certain wavelength for whom those sensibilities hit home regardless of whatever other story telling issues were at play.

But hey Warcraft.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What's your opinion on why people like/love BvS?

That they have different taste in film then me. Also that many were probably always going to love it no matter what. Considering the defenses of the film in the forum, I think there are many of the latter. I mean the film is too brilliant for the tiny minds of critics? Get the **** out.

 

[Consona]

It is amazing you got that lesson from BvS considering the actual reaction of the general public to it. Namely that the critics were right. Which is the only real concern when it comes to how much money will be made here.

Better to have one film I really enjoyed that will not make enough money to green-lit some sequels, than the whole cinematic universe that leaves me underwhelmed.

Also, "right = with the same opinion as you have"? Heh...

 

[Logan0327]

That they have different taste in film then me. Also that many were probably always going to love it no matter what. Considering the defenses of the film in the forum, I think there are many of the latter. I mean the film is too brilliant for the tiny minds of critics? Get the **** out.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Better to have one film I really enjoyed that will not make enough money to green-lit some sequels, than the whole cinematic universe that leaves me underwhelmed.

Also, "right = with the same opinion as you have"? Heh...

Proof, that is what box office is. Not of what a movie is, but how it is received, which is what is relevant here. General audiences thought BvS wasn't good, just like the critics. Just how the critics liked Deadpool and Civil War, and general audiences followed suit. Look at the Jungle Book. Nearly no hype, and yet it will end its box office run ahead of BvS, just like Zootopia. Angry Birds disliked, its box office estimates over the weekend keep on dropping.

We have two reviews so far that call Warcraft middle of the road, and then say critics will hate it. Which means chances are, so will general audiences. But of course this is only if these early reviews are right.

 

[Sithborg]

BVS taught me that some people should be judged based on their film tastes

[hides Ghost Rider 2 bluray under bed...]

The issue is people being unable to separate their own tastes and preferences with what everyone else should like. It's not "I like this, but I understand why others don't", its "you don't understand it" "your a troll" "screw the critics" "you/they are a shill for X". If you like a movie, fine. But don't be angry because others don't.

And that is looking very likely for this film.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

[hides Ghost Rider 2 bluray under bed...]

The issue is people being unable to separate their own tastes and preferences with what everyone else should like. It's not "I like this, but I understand why others don't", its "you don't understand it" "your a troll" "screw the critics" "you/they are a shill for X". If you like a movie, fine. But don't be angry because others don't.

And that is looking very likely for this film.

My brother and I like Ghost Rider 2. It took the B-movie tone, and didn't try to be something it wasn't. Compared to the first film, it is TDK.

 

[2kt09]

Ghost Rider 2

"beauty in the eye of the..." and all that jazz,

 

[Drz]

Ghost Rider 2

"beauty in the eye of the..." and all that jazz,

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Ghost Rider 2

"beauty in the eye of the..." and all that jazz,

See, I can enjoy it while still saying it isn't a good movie. I don't need to say everyone else is too stupid to get it.

 

[2kt09]

That attack on others comes from a personal level, whatever complexes that individual is venting through. Should give him/her an intervention whenever that happens or the silent treatment.

There are so few "not good movies" I've seen, deemed to be such and have every right to ignore majority opinion on no matter how much and so much of the internet parrot otherwise...that they're so bad they're entertaining.
Ghost Rider sequel isn't one of them, but you do you.

 

[Octoberist]

It seems like Ghost Rider 2 really broke the Crank guys.

 

[OutOfBoose]

But don't be angry because others don't.

And that is looking very likely for this film.

Same applies to those, who ridicule people, who like certain stuff. I don't trust critics, because if guided by them, I'd miss many films that I deeply enjoyed or hold dear. Not only flawed films, but even some true masterpieces.

As for arguments, that people don't understand BvS, or it's too smart for some people (I personally don't believe that, it's not a hard film to follow) - let's not pretend people like this don't exist:

And I see it on every corner.

 

[OutOfBoose]

That they have different taste in film then me. Also that many were probably always going to love it no matter what. Considering the defenses of the film in the forum, I think there are many of the latter. I mean the film is too brilliant for the tiny minds of critics? Get the **** out.

Actually, I went through about 60 reviews from RT and it was really surprising for me, that positive reviews were absolutely silly, arguments were terrible and overall quality was quite lacking. There was about 15-20% of reviewers, who HATED the film with passion, saying only terrible things about it, and the rest were quite neutral and dare I saw insightful, who provided interesting angle on the film, despite disliking it. Turns out, I agree with negative reviews more, than with positive ones, it's just film's positive moments deserve more recognition. That's why I just can't agree with bashing of the film.

Also, I was probably the least hyped person on this forum for BvS. Maybe it contributed to my enjoyment, since I didn't expect anything from it, based on promo materials.

Alright, let's get back to Warcraft. 4 days to go for me.

 

[godisawesome]

I think all modern geek movies have to deal with a new aspect of film criticism; the "I approve of the directions this film takes the franchise so I'm going to praise it a bit more/I don't approve of the direction this film takes the franchise, so I'm going to lambast it even more" element.

For instance, I'm a fan of the direction the DCEU has taken Superman, so I praise BvS even though I'll be the first to admit that the film was poorly put together and approached some subjects and ideas too shallowly. And as a counter-example, I see both Superman Returns and Spectre as examples of films that are excellently directed, edited, and put together, but are so rigidly dogmatic about holding to an older formula that I'm tired of, that I'll complain a lot more about them. Because I want to see more Post Crisis Superman, my threshold for a good Henry Cavill performance as a the big blue Boy Scout is different than a Reeves fan, in the same way that I think Waltz was wasted as Bloefeld because they didn't bring anything new to the table.

Which may play into some of the complaints we'll see about Warcraft, whether it successfully becomes a franchise or not. Some people want to see Video Game movies set in the same world, but with different stories, like Assassin's Creed, so they may not praise this movie as well as they theoretically should, while others may be excited about seeing Arthas as the Lich King and err a bit on the over-enthusiastic side because there's some indication this series would showcase his fall.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

People need to get use to films being films, no matter the genre. You don't get to skip out of the basics of filmmaking because you are a genre film. Especially as genre films are no longer considered as only big spectacles, there to distract. One of the reasons JJ Abrams is great at bringing back franchises is he gets the basics down. Pacing, likable characters, good looking films, etc. That is why Snyder is a failure in the same regard. I trust Duncan Jones in those regards, but he might have tried his hand at something a bit out of his grasp here.

 

[TheVileOne]

It seems like Ghost Rider 2 really broke the Crank guys.

I would say Crank 2 did it. I liked Crank, but they peaked with that film.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I think all modern geek movies have to deal with a new aspect of film criticism; the "I approve of the directions this film takes the franchise so I'm going to praise it a bit more/I don't approve of the direction this film takes the franchise, so I'm going to lambast it even more" element.

For instance, I'm a fan of the direction the DCEU has taken Superman, so I praise BvS even though I'll be the first to admit that the film was poorly put together and approached some subjects and ideas too shallowly. And as a counter-example, I see both Superman Returns and Spectre as examples of films that are excellently directed, edited, and put together, but are so rigidly dogmatic about holding to an older formula that I'm tired of, that I'll complain a lot more about them. Because I want to see more Post Crisis Superman, my threshold for a good Henry Cavill performance as a the big blue Boy Scout is different than a Reeves fan, in the same way that I think Waltz was wasted as Bloefeld because they didn't bring anything new to the table.

Which may play into some of the complaints we'll see about Warcraft, whether it successfully becomes a franchise or not. Some people want to see Video Game movies set in the same world, but with different stories, like Assassin's Creed, so they may not praise this movie as well as they theoretically should, while others may be excited about seeing Arthas as the Lich King and err a bit on the over-enthusiastic side because there's some indication this series would showcase his fall.

Fair observation. Agree.

 

[The Big G]

Well you said you read about Durotan and stuff, so I assumed you read one of those novelizations. Yeah, Lord of the Clans was one of their first novels and it was based off a cancelled RPG adventure with the same title, set after WC2 but before WC3:
[YT]gslAG2OEO1c[/YT]

I'm very biased towards Warcraft so I could recommend even more stuff lol easily. Paul Cornell wrote the WC Movie Comic and Christie Golden (Lord of the Clans author) wrote the prequel novelization, very excited for those both.

I always chuckle a bit when I remember that Clancy Brown voiced Thrall for LoC...and yet now he's Blackhand.

 

[OutOfBoose]

People need to get use to films being films, no matter the genre. You don't get to skip out of the basics of filmmaking because you are a genre film. Especially as genre films are no longer considered as only big spectacles, there to distract. One of the reasons JJ Abrams is great at bringing back franchises is he gets the basics down. Pacing, likable characters, good looking films, etc. That is why Snyder is a failure in the same regard. I trust Duncan Jones in those regards, but he might have tried his hand at something a bit out of his grasp here.

Other people need to get used to films being art. It's not mathematics.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Other people need to get used to films being art. It's not mathematics.

And people need to admit just because you call something art doesn't mean it can't be crap. That is why there are great artist (Scorsese, Kubrick, etc.) and there is Ed Wood and Uwe Boll.

 

[2kt09]

The point of calling something art is it can mean whatever anyone sees fit.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's exactly the point of calling something art.
It can mean whatever anyone sees fit.

And as most reasonable people would say, that is what we call an excuse. Not talking about liking something. Like what you like. But this goes back to some of my favorite jokes about film. Like the 2 hours screen of darkness, that is the greatest film of all time.

 

[2kt09]

Not talking about liking something.

I wasn't either.
You can be as reasonable to your utmost ability explaining the technical merits of anything to another, but art nevertheless resonates differently with different people and they'll perceive that technicality differently.