Fantastic Four reborn! - - - Part 19

[Orba]

I think the big difference between the Dance Off and those other scenes is that while it was meant to be a bit silly the other scenes were meant to be cool. The Spider-Man 3 dancing is just bad, and the Daredevil park fight has a character who is supposed to be hiding his powers yet keep on using them in public. With Daredevil he tends to ask more like a blind person when no-one is around than he does when there are people there.

 

[Kelly]

Neither film is even mediocre imo, but ROTSS is offensive in how bad it is, that I can't even watch it anymore.

Meh, I've seen much worse films....but certainly not up to my expectations by a long shot.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Meh, I've seen much worse films....but certainly not up to my expectations by a long shot.

I have seen worse films. But they didn't involve characters or actors I like, so I never had reason to consider them again.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think the big difference between the Dance Off and those other scenes is that while it was meant to be a bit silly the other scenes were meant to be cool. The Spider-Man 3 dancing is just bad, and the Daredevil park fight has a character who is supposed to be hiding his powers yet keep on using them in public. With Daredevil he tends to ask more like a blind person when no-one is around than he does when there are people there.

I am not a fan of SM3, but the dancing never really bothered me. Mainly because I got what they were going for. It wasn't particularly well executed, but they weren't meant to be cool. They were meant to be ridiculously OTT.

 

[Wise]

I am not a fan of SM3, but the dancing never really bothered me. Mainly because I got what they were going for. It wasn't particularly well executed, but they weren't meant to be cool. They were meant to be ridiculously OTT.

Spiderman 3 would have been a decent movie if they'd left out Venom and Gwen Stacy.

Also Harry should have just used the Goblin suit from the first film rather than the weird GI:Joe looking thing he wore in that movie.

If it was just Sandman and Goblin II it could have been decent.

 

[starscream22]

Spiderman 3 would have been a decent movie if they'd left out Venom and Gwen Stacy.

Also Harry should have just used the Goblin suit from the first film rather than the weird GI:Joe looking thing he wore in that movie.

If it was just Sandman and Goblin II it could have been decent.

Which is what I believe Sam Raimi wanted. But you know how Sony is.

 

[Spiderine]

Spiderman 3 would have been a decent movie if they'd left out Venom and Gwen Stacy.

Also Harry should have just used the Goblin suit from the first film rather than the weird GI:Joe looking thing he wore in that movie.

If it was just Sandman and Goblin II it could have been decent.

It was going to be Sandman Goblin and Vulture. Venom took his place.

 

[Spiderine]

I can't stand the Mr. Fantastic dance scene. It's so bad.

That whole scene was just to cause more tension with Sue who wanted her and Reed to have a normal life away from all the publicity and attention.

That movie had one of the worst climaxes in comic film with Doom, Galactus and Surfer. I could barely sit thru that **** once Doom got that board.

 

[Dasher10]

.............You trying to nudge "Psylockolussus" out of the number 1 spot for most shameful FF reboot post?

See above. You just proved that you aren't familiar with Byrne or Hickman's Fantastic Four. Those are two of the better known FF stories from each of those runs. You're only familiar with the Lee/Kirby stories and haven't read FF since the 80s. Even Mark Waid wrote Doctor Doom as pure evil rather than John Byrne's more sympathetic take and then killed Ben and put him in hell. This isn't even getting into the Sacasa run which dealt with some darker yet more relatable themes.

Stan Lee's stories were great but to act like the FF have never had darker stories since then that have been acclaimed is to bury your head in the sand. The only writer since Stan Lee to go into trying to put the craziest thing he could think of into the comic with any level of acclaim. He made the FF into an incredibly silly title which focused on poking as much fun at the FF as possible and it worked since he never reigned himself in.

What matters is that the characters are portrayed correctly. Tom DeFalco is considered the worst FF writer of all time because he didn't get them right, particularly Sue. The Tim Story films failed because both Sue and Doom were both portrayed horribly.

What masters is that Reed can be obnoxious and arrogant but still holds a great deal of faith in humanity with the opinion that the future is going to be far brighter than the present. Sue is a compassionate and capable leader who can keep the other three in line, Johnny is shallow and cocky with a love of one liners and pranks and Ben is grumpy and tormented but still tries to look to the bright side of any situation and will never back down from a fight.

And compared to other comics of the time, what made Stan Lee's Fantastic Four different from other comics of the time was how the heroes feel more like real people with real problems who were thrust into crazy situations.

 

[Farren]

That whole scene was just to cause more tension with Sue who wanted her and Reed to have a normal life away from all the publicity and attention.

That movie had one of the worst climaxes in comic film with Doom, Galactus and Surfer. I could barely sit thru that **** once Doom got that board.

Yup. And that's pretty much the way the film was written: out of character in order to serve plot points or gags. There's nothing wrong with humor and a movie SHOULD have a plot and move along, but those things should also feel organic to the characters and the story.

 

[antonydelfini]

Yup. And that's pretty much the way the film was written: out of character in order to serve plot points or gags. There's nothing wrong with humor and a movie SHOULD have a plot and move along, but those things should also feel organic to the characters and the story.

Yes, now that's called good writing. The first 2 FF films didnt have that.

 

[Nemeres]

I don't think FF2 was horrendous. Looking past the iffy elements it kept from the first film, it's at least an attempt at a fun character-driven story, cheese notwithstanding. It's fun on the B-movie level.

 

[Dasher10]

I don't think FF2 was horrendous. Looking past the iffy elements it kept from the first film, it's at least an attempt at a fun character-driven story, cheese notwithstanding. It's fun on the B-movie level.

Right but making a big budget B-movie is critical and commercial suicide. When you're trying to polish something that's so bad it's good, you wind up with a BAD MOVIE.

A B-Movie is something like Sharknado where Tara Reid isn't even trying, she's hamming it up since the whole film is trying to be a stupid as possible. I don't want to watch a campy FF film that feels like it was made in the 60s but with today's technology. John Byrne updated the FF and made them contemporary for a new audience in the 80s. The FF as most people know them are the version that started with Byrne (hence why we call Sue Invisible Woman instead of Invisible Girl).

The FF of today is the recently ended Hickman version which brought the franchise into trippy, convoluted sci-fi. That's what resonated with audiences. That's how new fans see the FF.

And Guardians of the Galaxy gets away with some level of cheese since it's an action comedy that leans more towards comedy. FF is a scifi film above all else. The campiest it should be allowed to get is around the same as that of Star Wars.

If you want a campy B-movie with modern special effects then you're asking for a film that will fail unless you're making it a goofy comedy. The previous films weren't trying to be silly comedy films, they were trying to be science fiction superhero films that also played with too much cheese. That hasn't worked for big budget mainstream media since the 70s.

 

[Nemeres]

I'm not officially calling FF2 a B-movie, but I do enjoy it despite its crappy elements. I put it on the level of a fun B-movie. Of course it's not an ideal scenario, and I would have preferred something better.

 

[Human Torch]

I'm not officially calling FF2 a B-movie, but I do enjoy it despite its crappy elements. I put it on the level of a fun B-movie. Of course it's not an ideal scenario, and I would have preferred something better.

That's basically what the Story films are.B movies. Good for a decent evening's entertainment,but lacks the sophistication for an Upper List movie. I think we all want the FF to finally get their Upper List movie.

 

[Dasher10]

That's basically what the Story films are.B movies. Good for a decent evening's entertainment,but lacks the sophistication for an Upper List movie. I think we all want the FF to finally get their Upper List movie.

That's what I'm hoping that this reboot is. I also call it Fox's last chance to impress me.

 

[Farren]

Even a B-movie can have consistently written characters that drive the plot though. RotSS had neither (except maybe for Johnny). Doom especially demonstrates this: the dude literally does nothing to move the plot and could have been excised from it entirely, and while his characterization in the first movie was a bad adaptation it was at least internally consistent and had an arc and McMahon's casting worked for what they were going for...but here he just feels completely inorganic in his motives and McMahon just feels all wrong. I don't HATE RotSS: I like the FX; I like the concepts; I like Chiklis and Evans; heck I don't even mind Cloudactus. But the script and characterizations are a mess.

 

[Dark Raven]

That's what I'm hoping that this reboot is. I also call it Fox's last chance to impress me.

But hoping for something like that with FFINO is rather in vain, considering it has been filmed on a much lower budget, even less effort and value has been given to it, Doom has been demoted to an anti-social blogger and it's something that Fox even seem rather ashamed of.

 

[starscream22]

But hoping for something like that with FFINO is rather in vain, considering it has been filmed on a much lower budget, even less effort and value has been given to it, Doom has been demoted to an anti-social blogger and it's something that Fox even seem rather ashamed of.

THIS! ^^^^

You just proved that you aren't familiar with Byrne or Hickman's Fantastic Four. Those are two of the better known FF stories from each of those runs. You're only familiar with the Lee/Kirby stories and haven't read FF since the 80s.

I think I have better knowledge of what F4 arcs I've read then you do. All you've proven is that you're not above going all over the place while trying to play the role as the better man for still keeping an open mind for this film despite the many issues surrounding it. Yet you're still giving yourself and easy escape route if it likely fails.

At least thats how you come off which is why many people can't take you seriously.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

You're only familiar with the Lee/Kirby stories and haven't read FF since the 80s.

I hate to break it to you while you're busy telling everyone else what they've read and whatnot, but Lee/Kirby FF ended a long time before the 80's.

THIS! ^^^^

I think I have better knowledge of what F4 arcs I've read then you do. All you've proven is that you're not above going all over the place while trying to play the role as the better man for still keeping an open mind for this film despite the many issues surrounding it. Yet you're still giving yourself and easy escape route if it likely fails.

At least thats how you come off which is why many people can't take you seriously.

Agreed.

 

[Dark Raven]

This! ^^^^

i think i have better knowledge of what f4 arcs i've read then you do. All you've proven is that you're not above going all over the place while trying to play the role as the better man for still keeping an open mind for this film despite the many issues surrounding it. Yet you're still giving yourself and easy escape route if it likely fails.

At least thats how you come off which is why many people can't take you seriously.

This! ^^^^

 

[C. Lee]

Let's spend less time talking smack about other posters and more time on the movie itself.

 

[Eddie]

There's a Spider-Man comic in which Peter's radioactive sperm killed Mary Jane years ago, Hypno-Hustler is killed after his boombox runs out of battery power, and Spider-Man outright kills the Sinister Six. It would be totally appropriate for Sony to adapt that for their next movie, guys. That one Spider-Man story is totally representative of the overall legacy of Spider-Man. If you don't agree you haven't read a Spider-Man comic since Stan Lee stopped writing them.

EDIT: C. Lee posted as I was typing, but I think the point is pretty valid. Posting a somewhat gruesome image of Johnny from one story and saying FF should be dark and gritty is kinda silly.

 

[terry78]

Let's spend less time talking smack about other posters and more time on the movie itself.

Then this thread will become a ghost town.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Then this thread will become a ghost town.

Just like theaters on August 7th.