Game of Thrones - HBO part 2 - Part 3

[ChickenScratch]

Yes, Jamie and Theon are redeemed IMO. But that's spoiler area for you TV people.

 

[Golgo-13]

Yes, Jamie and Theon are redeemed IMO. But that's spoiler area for you TV people.

I just did some research and read about the 'torturous future' Theon has waiting for him.

 

[ChickenScratch]

Spoiled it for yourself did you?

 

[Sebastos]

What more is there to say? Game of Thrones is one of my favorite shows on tv right now.

 

[Golgo-13]

Spoiled it for yourself did you?

I couldn't resist.

 

[DACrowe]

Can anyone give me some context of the "you know nothing Jon Snow" line? Everyone seems to love it so much.

Jon and Ygritte have a very entertaining relationship that readers have enjoyed. Half of their conversations end with her condescending to him with that line.

 

[DACrowe]

You can't betray and behead your mentor, and murder two children (regardless of who they are) and redeem yourself.

Same thing goes for Jaime. You can only go so far before you go beyond the point of redemption.

I agree with you on Theon. Jaime has redeemed himself, in my opinion.

 

[ChickenScratch]

I couldn't resist.

Ya know, it's been published. You don't have to find out second hand or on TV years late.

 

[Matt]

Well, finally an episode where something actually happened at the end. It is unfortunate that the rest of the episode was so damn boring. A Tyrion-lite + Dany-heavy episode = fail.

Plus, while I enjoyed the Jamie subplot as I think that the role is very well acted, I must ask...what the hell was the point? He escaped only to be caught (off-screen) within one scene. Cue a book purist saying that it showed the dissent which will ultimately lead to Caitlyn's action, but that could be established through other means. Hell, just say the guy's son was killed in the battle with Jamie and his need for vengeance would be established without wasting ten minutes.

On a plus side, I do very much love Tywin and Arya's interactions.

 

[ChickenScratch]

Jamie's hella important now, just as important as Jon, Dany, Tyrion. Watch the Jamie/Brianne story as it develops.

 

[Matt]

I've peaked ahead. Tonight's little ruckus doesn't seem all that important to it. It is something that could've been gotten too without the ten minute scene in the cage. Sure, it shows what a cold bastard Jamie is, but that is it. This is what I mean when I say there are unnecessary aspects that slow down pacing.

 

[zanos]

Theon is out of control. I can only see death in his future

Wow check these two out. Almost completely unrecognizable when not in character

Theon is a good guy underneath.

I've always thought Charles Dance is an underrated actor.

Theon is past the point of redemption. He may of not gotten treated like a prince with the Starks but its better than having to constantly do messed up stuff to prove himself to his biological family.

Kingslayer Jamie is a scumbag. All the Lannisters seem rather ruthless except Tyrion

Jamies is the hero of the story.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I've peaked ahead. Tonight's little ruckus doesn't seem all that important to it. It is something that could've been gotten too without the ten minute scene in the cage. Sure, it shows what a cold bastard Jamie is, but that is it. This is what I mean when I say there are unnecessary aspects that slow down pacing.

It was character development and providing backstory. The reference to Barristan Selmy is kind of important, too.

 

[Matt]

It was character development and providing backstory. The reference to Barristan Selmy is kind of important, too.

Passing references to other characters aren't important. Most will not remember that Jamie made a comment in passing when the character returns. If it is important information, it can be conveyed when the character is important again.

As for the development, everything in that scene that was established, we already knew about Jamie. He is cunning, manipulative, ruthless and willing to do anything to survive/win. That isn't anything we didn't know from season one.

 

[ChickenScratch]

It was character development and providing backstory. The reference to Barristan Selmy is kind of important, too.

See the thing is, when they do it at the pace they should it's called slow and plodding.

Yes, the mention of Ser Selmy was very important not only in the scene but in Jamie's arc over the course of the series.

Yet another time when GRRM throws us the big misdirect.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Passing references to other characters aren't important. Most will not remember that Jamie made a comment in passing when the character returns. If it is important information, it can be conveyed when the character is important again.

Or it can be mentioned now by a character who was inspired by them.

As for the development, everything in that scene that was established, we already knew about Jamie. He is cunning, manipulative, ruthless and willing to do anything to survive/win. That isn't anything we didn't know from season one.

Did you actually listen to his story about when he was Selmy's squire? He was completely entranced by Selmy and wanted to be a knight like him. But he was like Sansa is now, in love with the dream of being something and then learning the truth about it. This is all new to viewers of the show.

 

[rayc1971]

so did they skip over the chracter "reek"?

 

[Kane52630]

Just watched the last episode and did they seriously kill those two?

 

[Thundercrack85]

It's rather obvious that it's the two orphans from the farm.

 

[DACrowe]

Well, finally an episode where something actually happened at the end. It is unfortunate that the rest of the episode was so damn boring. A Tyrion-lite + Dany-heavy episode = fail.

Plus, while I enjoyed the Jamie subplot as I think that the role is very well acted, I must ask...what the hell was the point? He escaped only to be caught (off-screen) within one scene. Cue a book purist saying that it showed the dissent which will ultimately lead to Caitlyn's action, but that could be established through other means. Hell, just say the guy's son was killed in the battle with Jamie and his need for vengeance would be established without wasting ten minutes.

On a plus side, I do very much love Tywin and Arya's interactions.

Huh. I thought it was a great episode, even if the cliffhanger was a little too obvious. Then again I'm a sucker for Jon and Ygritte scenes or scenes with Arya and Tywin.

As for your "what's the point for showing him try to escape," query. It first is great character development for Jaime and, as the actor has wasted away most of the season not appearing in the last 4 or 5 episodes, it was nice to give him several great scenes tonight to remind viewers why they should love to hate or love to be entertained by this guy (though murdering his cousin is really out of character for him, IMO ).

It also has him kill a Karstark which does move the plot along. In the book he actually killed the boy at Whispering Wood (the battle in Episode 1.9). However, given that audiences probably don't remember that they put it here. And aren't you one who always complains about "showing not telling?" Well, they show you him kill the kid and you still complain because you'd rather have just been told. And yes, killing the Karstark will come back later with trés importance. The payoff is in the third book, but I bet they move it up to 2.10 before everybody forgets that happened.

Ultimately, it was meant to beef up his character. I actually wish we had more time of him with Cat because they were just about to start scratching the surface of the complexity of the character before he went off on a tangent about Ned just to piss her off. Oh well, guess that will be for next season.

 

[DACrowe]

Or it can be mentioned now by a character who was inspired by them.


Did you actually listen to his story about when he was Selmy's squire? He was completely entranced by Selmy and wanted to be a knight like him. But he was like Sansa is now, in love with the dream of being something and then learning the truth about it. This is all new to viewers of the show.

I think it puffed up Selmy some. But they just used it here because he's a guy who was briefly in Season 1 and should come back next year. In the books I believe it was the late Ser Arthur Dayne. Anyway, the point wasn't about puffing up that character, it was about conveying that Jaime admires and idolizes "honorable" knights and grew up wanting to be, literally, a white knight. He still believes in honor which if you only view him as a "Kingslayer" seems odd. I think it was the first layer of trying to give him depth beyond an antagonist that the series will tell in its long journey.

That's what i took away, at the very least.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

That's what I got, too. When he was young, he was pretty much like Sansa idolizing a great knight like Selmy (it was Dayne in the books, probably made it Selmy so it's one less character to reference). So now the show viewer should wonder what happened to make him the cynical ******* he is now.

 

[mr. peasant]

I think it puffed up Selmy some. But they just used it here because he's a guy who was briefly in Season 1 and should come back next year. In the books I believe it was the late Ser Arthur Dayne. Anyway, the point wasn't about puffing up that character, it was about conveying that Jaime admires and idolizes "honorable" knights and grew up wanting to be, literally, a white knight. He still believes in honor which if you only view him as a "Kingslayer" seems odd. I think it was the first layer of trying to give him depth beyond an antagonist that the series will tell in its long journey.

That's what i took away, at the very least.

Except, viewers wind up not believing his story and viewing it with suspect as simply a ploy as part of his escape plan.


I think these complaints are simply part of the overall issue of trying to remain faithful to the books as a TV series since the two mediums are two very different beasts (more so, compared to books vs movies). The show could have (and probably should have) simply done its own thing instead of trying to remain as faithful as possible to the events of the books since pacing issues (e.g. formerly central characters being absent for long periods of time, audience's recollection of specific detail/character back story) and actors leaving (e.g. all the named Dothraki in the show have been killed off even though a number of them are still alive in the books) force the creators to change things anyway.

 

[Marvolo]

Great episode with lots of progress! Can't wait to see the outcome of it all over these next 3 episodes.

 

[ChickenScratch]

Except, viewers wind up not believing his story and viewing it with suspect as simply a ploy as part of his escape plan.


I think these complaints are simply part of the overall issue of trying to remain faithful to the books as a TV series since the two mediums are two very different beasts (more so, compared to books vs movies). The show could have (and probably should have) simply done its own thing instead of trying to remain as faithful as possible to the events of the books since pacing issues (e.g. formerly central characters being absent for long periods of time, audience's recollection of specific detail/character back story) and actors leaving (e.g. all the named Dothraki in the show have been killed off even though a number of them are still alive in the books) force the creators to change things anyway.

Simplifying it for a TV audience just turns it into Merlin on the Sci-fi channel. The brutality and the interconnectedness of it is what makes it great, as is the huge cast and the paceing.

The pace seems slow at time because GRRM is throwing everyone huge hints and misdirects all the time while telling a linear story that takes years to unfold.