Game of Thrones - HBO part 2 - Part 6

[Ramsay Snow]

I think he had a cameo in the original pilot.

Really?! When?

 

[Sawyer]

It was in the pilot that never aired.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Yeah! Maybe a drunk Maester with a catchy name like Maester Martin, who took too long to pass his exams 'cos he kept getting drunk and stuff.

in the (awesome) video game tie-in GRRM played a character called Maester Martin, he had the classic hat and glasses lol

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The events in Mereen will be changed significantly I think for the show. And I find her to be endearing not for her beauty, but then again I like her in the books which translates to Dany in the show. I'm not sure what you mean by dumbest person who ever lived, tho? She acts her age and the way a person would given her upbringing and ordeals. After her dragons hatched she started thinking she was high and mighty which led to the entitlement problem. Which led to the "fire and blood" BS. She wasn't raised to be queen. She was raised to be a ****e for her brother to sell. She is raped and used. Then she falls in love. Then her love dies. Then her khalasar abandon her. Then she becomes mother of dragons. Then her people die in the red waste. She can't get what she thinks she is owed. Then she is manipulated by the warlocks and Dario. She is constantly told westeros is awaiting her return but she cant get there because Essos doesnt really care about westeros politics. Its a wonder she is level headed even a bit. So I'm not sure exactly what you are expecting. Dany is a product of what she has been through. Her character is true to this stuff.

She wasn't raised to be her brother's bargaining chip. That came later, and again it wasn't a process. Her brother just sold her. Not much in the prep work there. If she was raised to be such, her reaction wouldn't have been what it is.

The age thing holds no weight on this show, or even her upbringing. Not the story with Jon Snow, Robb Stark, Arya Stark, Bran Stark, and Sansa Stark. Dany falls right in the middle in terms of age, and they have been put in far worse situations then Dany finds herself today. They seem to manage, and far better. The Mother of Dragons looks weak and horrible next to the wolves. The upbringing thing is a non-starter, unless you are ready to forgive all of Joffrey's sins for that reason. His siblings seem fine compared to him or any other children.

And yes, the dumbest person on the planet. That is the territory we are going to arrive in very soon, though we were close last season. Oh, these people show interest in my dragons. Guess I should leave them alone with them. She is manipulated so often because she allows it to happen.

 

[Marvolo]

She wasn't raised to be her brother's bargaining chip. That came later, and again it wasn't a process. Her brother just sold her. Not much in the prep work there. If she was raised to be such, her reaction wouldn't have been what it is.

The age thing holds no weight on this show, or even her upbringing. Not the story with Jon Snow, Robb Stark, Arya Stark, Bran Stark, and Sansa Stark. Dany falls right in the middle in terms of age, and they have been put in far worse situations then Dany finds herself today. They seem to manage, and far better. The Mother of Dragons looks weak and horrible next to the wolves. The upbringing thing is a non-starter, unless you are ready to forgive all of Joffrey's sins for that reason. His siblings seem fine compared to him or any other children.

And yes, the dumbest person on the planet. That is the territory we are going to arrive in very soon, though we were close last season. Oh, these people show interest in my dragons. Guess I should leave them alone with them. She is manipulated so often because she allows it to happen.

Uh yeah she was raised as a bargaining chip. [Blackout] Varys and Illyrio's to Dorne.[/blackout] Then her brother's to the Dothraki. Up until she was in love with Drogo she was abused, used, and only meant as a mechinization while [blackout]Vary's and his people prepared Aegon VI.[/blackout]

Her age is not made irrelevant based on the Stark children. The Stark children grew up entirely different from her in a very different place under very different prospects and conditions. Dany is every bit a child who, when she wasn't being beaten and used by her brother and everyone else, was being cared for by Illyrio but she wasnt raised like a westerosi northerner. Until her dragons hatched she was next to nothing but a bargaining chip to the players pulling these strings. She wasn't taught to be a ruler and she wasnt made to grow into a warrior. This all she has had to learn on her own after Drogo died and the dragons hatched.

Joffrey's issues are due to mental problems from twincest and a ****** mother who didn't know how to control her deranged brat. That has nothing to do with forgiveness it is simple fact. Tyrion himself said it that all born of incest do not go bad. Joffrey is a bad egg and doesn't compare to others. Using him as a comparison is futile.

As for the dragons being stolen, her dragons were being guarded by her remaining khalasar. Of course she thought they were safe r with her slaves and armed guards in a building than being lugged around with her through the streets and to the parties. Its basic defense. A single immovable position is easier to defend than a moving caravan in the open. She also didn't expect her chamber maid to become a greedy **** and steal them.

 

[Pink Ranger]

He should be a poet Joffrey executes for taking too long making his poem

Apparently, when those poems are adapted into plays, there's an insane amount of gratuitous nudity.

 

[Ramsay Snow]

It was in the pilot that never aired.

I see. Thanks!

in the (awesome) video game tie-in GRRM played a character called Maester Martin, he had the classic hat and glasses lol

That's pretty awesome

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Uh yeah she was raised as a bargaining chip. [Blackout] Varys and Illyrio's to Dorne.[/blackout] Then her brother's to the Dothraki. Up until she was in love with Drogo she was abused, used, and only meant as a mechinization while [blackout]Vary's and his people prepared Aegon VI.[/blackout]

What I meant is she wasn't raised to be used sexually as a bargaining chip by Viserys or anyone else. She grew up thinking she'd be with Viserys. One of the reasons Viserys loses it because he saw his sister's as his sexual partner.

Her age is not made irrelevant based on the Stark children. The Stark children grew up entirely different from her in a very different place under very different prospects and conditions. Dany is every bit a child who, when she wasn't being beaten and used by her brother and everyone else, was being cared for by Illyrio but she wasnt raised like a westerosi northerner. Until her dragons hatched she was next to nothing but a bargaining chip to the players pulling these strings. She wasn't taught to be a ruler and she wasnt made to grow into a warrior. This all she has had to learn on her own after Drogo died and the dragons hatched.

You are misrepresenting her early childhood. She wasn't beaten and used by everyone. It wasn't until Viserys started to change as they both got older that he started beating her. In fact, as little ones, her and Viserys were quite close and loving. It wasn't until Viserys' started to becoming consumed by his "destiny" and entitlement that he started to lose it. Kind of like Dany herself.

That she wasn't raised to be a warrior or leader is meaningless. She knew her brother's plans from a young age were bad. She has always had judgment. More importantly, whatever she went through doesn't account for the person she is. The books and show have shown a lot of it is choice. Jaime, Cersei, and Tyrion are all different. Tyrion was the tortured one and yet he is the one with a real heart. Jaime can love his sister who tortured their brother, while still loving his brother.

Arya, Sansa, Robb, and Bran were all raised by their mother to reject Jon as their brother. Only Sansa sort of took that to heart. He is every other Stark child's favorite sibling, other then Rickon, who is so young.

In the grand scheme of things, Dany got off soft. Just look at Ayra, Sansa, Bran and Rickon. Look at Sandor.

Joffrey's issues are due to mental problems from twincest and a ****** mother who didn't know how to control her deranged brat. That has nothing to do with forgiveness it is simple fact. Tyrion himself said it that all born of incest do not go bad. Joffrey is a bad egg and doesn't compare to others. Using him as a comparison is futile.

The idea that Joffrey's personality is down to incest is ridiculous. What it does show is how much it comes down to the individual and thus is very relevant.

Dany is how she is because that is who she is. Just like Jon, Tyrion, Cersei, The Hound, The Mountain, Ayra, and all the others with weird and tragic childhoods.

And I would not be surprised if she ended up another Mad King. She is showing all the signs. She acts completely entitled simply because she has dragons. As if that makes her words law. She use to roll her eyes at her brother because of his own entitlement and now she demonstrates the same exact thing.

As for the dragons being stolen, her dragons were being guarded by her remaining khalasar. Of course she thought they were safe r with her slaves and armed guards in a building than being lugged around with her through the streets and to the parties. Its basic defense. A single immovable position is easier to defend than a moving caravan in the open. She also didn't expect her chamber maid to become a greedy **** and steal them.

Her Khalasar was what, a dozen people, probably less? She took her one living blood rider with her. She shouldn't have left her dragons allow. She can't travel with them, don't leave them. Looking for a way to cross the sea with dragons not strong enough to even defend themselves. Come on.

 

[Marvolo]

What I meant is she wasn't raised to be used sexually as a bargaining chip by Viserys or anyone else. She grew up thinking she'd be with Viserys. One of the reasons Viserys loses it because he saw his sister's as his sexual partner.


You are misrepresenting her early childhood. She wasn't beaten and used by everyone. It wasn't until Viserys started to change as they both got older that he started beating her. In fact, as little ones, her and Viserys were quite close and loving. It wasn't until Viserys' started to becoming consumed by his "destiny" and entitlement that he started to lose it. Kind of like Dany herself.

That she wasn't raised to be a warrior or leader is meaningless. She knew her brother's plans from a young age were bad. She has always had judgment. More importantly, whatever she went through doesn't account for the person she is. The books and show have shown a lot of it is choice. Jaime, Cersei, and Tyrion are all different. Tyrion was the tortured one and yet he is the one with a real heart. Jaime can love his sister who tortured their brother, while still loving his brother.

Arya, Sansa, Robb, and Bran were all raised by their mother to reject Jon as their brother. Only Sansa sort of took that to heart. He is every other Stark child's favorite sibling, other then Rickon, who is so young.

In the grand scheme of things, Dany got off soft. Just look at Ayra, Sansa, Bran and Rickon. Look at Sandor.


The idea that Joffrey's personality is down to incest is ridiculous. What it does show is how much it comes down to the individual and thus is very relevant.

Dany is how she is because that is who she is. Just like Jon, Tyrion, Cersei, The Hound, The Mountain, Ayra, and all the others with weird and tragic childhoods.

And I would not be surprised if she ended up another Mad King. She is showing all the signs. She acts completely entitled simply because she has dragons. As if that makes her words law. She use to roll her eyes at her brother because of his own entitlement and now she demonstrates the same exact thing.


Her Khalasar was what, a dozen people, probably less? She took her one living blood rider with her. She shouldn't have left her dragons allow. She can't travel with them, don't leave them. Looking for a way to cross the sea with dragons not strong enough to even defend themselves. Come on.

You said it yourself Dany got off soft which is exactly what I have been saying. When she wasn't being used as a pawn she was living in Essos with the rich Illyrio. She was never taught to rule and she for her entire life knew her place was beneath Viserys. She would marry him and he would rule. Then she was sold to the Dothraki and she thought she would be by Drogo's side. Dany wasnt prepared to be in the forefront. When it came time for her to take that place in the forefront she became the Mother of Dragons which is bound to go to anyone's head. Do you really expect a person raised like she was to have the wherewithall to make mature rational decisions at all times? I don't. Maybe you do but I don't. Dany is a result of her upbringing and situations. She acts like I would expect anyone raised like she was to act. With her it has just been one domino after another leading to this child in a position she never meant to be in. She Is now in a place where she thinks she is entitled to rule and that it is her right which can only lead to a cluster****. [blackout] Aegon VI arriving should curtail some of this.[/blackout]

The idea that Joffrey isn't "off" because of incest is I would say ridiculous. Especially when he shows tendencies that the Mad King exhibited. Another person adversely effected by incest. Even more especially when Cersi herself said something had always been wrong with him to which Tyrion brings up the incest. The show has made it clear Joffrey isn't all there and that the incest is the likely cause and is more than just your typical brat.

And did you not read what I said about the dragons? It was smarter to leave the dragons at the house with her chamber maids and guards. It would be hard to protect them in the open moving. It would also make the locals directly aware of the dragons presence (actually seeing them would stir up too much public chatter and awareness) and probably get more than a few planning to take them. So It was either stay in the room with the dragons at all times (impossible) or trust your people and do what you need to do (get ships). There was really no other way she could have done it given her situation.

 

[Marvolo]

On another note, GRRM is talking to HBO about a Dunk and Egg series.

 

[Roose Bolton]

****in yes to that. I love Dunk the Lunk thick as a castle wall.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Also it's definitely the incest, the little **** murdered cats and kittens as a little kid, hell he's even of diminished intelligence as well I'd say.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You said it yourself Dany got off soft which is exactly what I have been saying. When she wasn't being used as a pawn she was living in Essos with the rich Illyrio. She was never taught to rule and she for her entire life knew her place was beneath Viserys. She would marry him and he would rule. Then she was sold to the Dothraki and she thought she would be by Drogo's side. Dany wasnt prepared to be in the forefront. When it came time for her to take that place in the forefront she became the Mother of Dragons which is bound to go to anyone's head. Do you really expect a person raised like she was to have the wherewithall to make mature rational decisions at all times? I don't. Maybe you do but I don't. Dany is a result of her upbringing and situations. She acts like I would expect anyone raised like she was to act. With her it has just been one domino after another leading to this child in a position she never meant to be in. She Is now in a place where she thinks she is entitled to rule and that it is her right which can only lead to a cluster****. [blackout] Aegon VI arriving should curtail some of this.[/blackout]

You do realize she put herself in this position right? That she wants it? That is on her. You don't get to play revolution and queen and then just avoid the blame.

The idea that Joffrey isn't "off" because of incest is I would say ridiculous. Especially when he shows tendencies that the Mad King exhibited. Another person adversely effected by incest. Even more especially when Cersi herself said something had always been wrong with him to which Tyrion brings up the incest. The show has made it clear Joffrey isn't all there and that the incest is the likely cause and is more than just your typical brat.

Then explain all the other "evil" characters not born of incest on the show. The Mountain makes Joffrey look tame. A certain bastard is about to make both of them look positively human.

Joffrey is evil. He was born with an evil heart. He reminds me of a character from Angel. He just is. There is no reason other then he was born that way. The Mad King ended up mad. Viserys ended up losing it. But that is very different from what Joffrey is.

And did you not read what I said about the dragons? It was smarter to leave the dragons at the house with her chamber maids and guards. It would be hard to protect them in the open moving. It would also make the locals directly aware of the dragons presence (actually seeing them would stir up too much public chatter and awareness) and probably get more than a few planning to take them. So It was either stay in the room with the dragons at all times (impossible) or trust your people and do what you need to do (get ships). There was really no other way she could have done it given her situation.

She had plenty of room and space to move about. She could have easily had stayed with them until they were more deadly. That from when they were taken to when Dany finds them is not long at all, it just shows how more ridiculous it is. They were already capable of breathing fire.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Also it's definitely the incest, the little **** murdered cats and kittens as a little kid, hell he's even of diminished intelligence as well I'd say.

Tommen loves his cats. Born of incest.

 

[Sawyer]

Tommen got the better flip of the coin.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Tommen got the better flip of the coin.

That is all well and good, but it also shows there is no connection between the evil and incest. Two thirds of their kids are fine.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Joffrey doesn't really come off as an idiot, so much as someone who just doesn't care. Makes sense, since thanks to his mother, he never really has to worry about the consequences of his actions, so he really has no reason to think things over.

Plus, he's a teenager. That never helps.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If anything Joffrey takes after his mother. He just has a penis and his mother to protect him. Now he has power and not even his own mother can control him.

 

[Thundercrack85]

What I don't get is why Tywin (or really anyone who isn't Cersei) didn't just have Joffrey killed and Tommen put on the throne.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What I don't get is why Tywin (or really anyone who isn't Cersei) didn't just have Joffrey killed and Tommen put on the throne.

Kinslaying is a big no-no in Westeros. Actually considered moral wrong by the worst sort.

However, I think you will get an answer to your question this season.

 

[Roose Bolton]

That is all well and good, but it also shows there is no connection between the evil and incest. Two thirds of their kids are fine.

Need I remind you of the many, many Targaryens who were inbred and mad? Aerys, Aerion, Daeron, Rhaegel (and his twin sons), Aegon the fourth, Baelor, Maegor. All of them were off their rockers and all of them were from incestual breeding, while I will concede that you do have the Ramsay Bolton and Euron Greyjoy's of the world it still doesn't disprove that madness if often a result of incest, sure it's like the real world in the sense that it manifests itself because of both nature and nurture but surely you have to admit it's likely that Joffrey is at least in part, mad because of his genetics.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Need I remind you of the many, many Targaryens who were inbred and mad? Aerys, Aerion, Daeron, Rhaegel (and his twin sons), Aegon the fourth, Baelor, Maegor. All of them were off their rockers and all of them were from incestual breeding, while I will concede that you do have the Ramsay Bolton and Euron Greyjoy's of the world it still doesn't disprove that madness if often a result of incest, sure it's like the real world in the sense that it manifests itself because of both nature and nurture but surely you have to admit it's likely that Joffrey is at least in part, mad because of his genetics.

Joffrey isn't mad. He is evil. Joffrey knows exactly what he is doing and enjoys it.

And the Targaryens aren't just because of their incest. They are mad because of their believe in their own legend. They are as entitled as they get. Viserys and Dany have shown just that.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Oh here we go. You and your disdain of House Targaryen, tell me what do you think of Bloodraven then given that he's a member of that House as well?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Oh here we go. You and your disdain of House Targaryen, tell me what do you think of Bloodraven then given that he's a member of that House as well?

What are you talking about? I like Viserys, I kind of like Dany, I love Rhaegar, Maester Aemon is the man, and [BLACKOUT]Jon Snow[/BLACKOUT] is my favorite character. But their house is full of a bunch of entitled kooks. You just pointed that out.

"We are the dragon, respect us or we will have our mystical beast commit mass homicide!" I prefer the Starks, Lannisters, Greyjoys and others who have actually earned the right to talk a little trash in the last 100 years. Those that don't depend on magical creatures to do all their dirty work.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Isn't the fact that actually managed to tame these mythical creatures enough? The fact that they took seven kingdoms and made them one? For every madman they've had great Kings as well, men who have brought peace and prosperity to the realm for years. How are the Lannisters or Greyjoys any better? I mean the Lannisters got where they are because Lann the clever was intelligent and Greyjoy's because of some descent they claim from a mythical hero. Targaryens got where they were because they were ambitious enough to take what they want.