Game of Thrones - HBO part 2 - Part 7

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Yeah, not just any Lady in Westeros would offer to marry a girl to her gay brother just to get her away from the Lannisters. :o:up:

Does she genuinely want to help Sanssa or does she have an agenda of her own. Margery ( sp ? ) doesn't appear to be that kind to me.

Note : Hotpie was more helpful ( he cook tasty bread ) in his 5 minutes screen time all episodes combined that Sam "The Useless" since season 1. Amazing.
 
My mom cheered when Mormont got shanked.

How dare she!?

Dracarys!!!


4VvHz2L.gif
 
Seems rather obvious to me...

Yeah, yeah, I know all that :p I'm just saying that it was sad for me that it wasn't completely sincere since it was such a heartwarming scene - there's always some kind of motive that makes all these stories interesting but still.. :(

Note : Hotpie was more helpful ( he cook tasty bread ) in his 5 minutes screen time all episodes combined that Sam "The Useless" since season 1. Amazing.

Whoa, you take that back about Sam :cmad: Since Season 1, he suggested that they burn the corpses, consoled Jon for his new duties and stuff, told the others about Wights and stuff, spotted that thing where there was a Ranger's horn and dragonglass, took over for Jon's duties and took a sword and ran away with Gilly before she might become a victim of the mutiny. See?!
 
Does she genuinely want to help Sanssa or does she have an agenda of her own. Margery ( sp ? ) doesn't appear to be that kind to me.
My impression is that Margaery does like Sansa, has sympathy for her and wants to be compassionate, but she's still using her by arranging a marriage between her and Loras (who I'm assuming is the heir to Highgarden whereas he was the 3rd son in the books).

I don't expect for people to pick up on this, but look at the arranged marriages in the past. Stark and Tully, Arryn and Tully, Baratheon and Lannister. Before Lyanna died, she was betrothed to Robert so there would have been a Stark and Baratheon marriage. It's actually uncommon for these great houses to marry one another, usually they would marry within their territory to keep their vassals happy.

Anyway, you notice that the Tyrells are left out of all the above marriages. Most of it is likely due to ages, but they have an opportunity now to grab power. First it's through Margaery by her becoming queen. If they have Sansa marry Loras, you basically have a North-South alliance with the Tyrells and Starks as well as the Tullys to a lesser degree. Having influence over the North, Riverlands, and the Reach would be very powerful since it would provide them with the most natural resources and largest army.
 
I take it there's never been a female Hand of the King. On that note, who among the many ladies we've met could've made for a good Hand?
 
I just want to see Rast's head on a ****ing spike. Though Burn Gorman's "You are a bastard. A daughter-****ing Wildling bastard" line was gold. Craster got what he had coming to him. Hopefully Grenn and Edd are all good.

My prediction is that Rast will = [BLACKOUT]Small Paul[/BLACKOUT] from the books later on this season.
Small Paul attacks Sam and Gilly as a wight.
 
I'm fine and understand the arranged marriage, I just don't see Margaery as genuine with her feelings toward Sansa perhaps because I watched The Tudors and she was machiavelic in this series.

@Rogue Agent
I don't like the character of Sam, I don't "hate" him but I see him as an "iron ball character" ( the kind prisoners used to wear ). That and his puppy gaze make it hard for me to sympathize.
Objectively, I agree with you, he had his moments but not protecting his Lord Commander and fleeing with a girl he knew for about 10 minutes is not one of them in my subjective opinion :)
 
I take it there's never been a female Hand of the King. On that note, who among the many ladies we've met could've made for a good Hand?

There's a joke/innuendo somewhere here :)

As for your question, I would say Brienne. Skilled with a sword, loyal, trustworthy and 6 feet tall.
 
I'm fine and understand the arranged marriage, I just don't see Margaery as genuine with her feelings toward Sansa perhaps because I watched The Tudors and she was machiavelic in this series.

@Rogue Agent
I don't like the character of Sam, I don't "hate" him but I see him as an "iron ball character" ( the kind prisoners used to wear ). That and his puppy gaze make it hard for me to sympathize.
Objectively, I agree with you, he had his moments but not protecting his Lord Commander and fleeing with a girl he knew for about 10 minutes is not one of them in my subjective opinion :)

So you would have him stay and die in a fight he has no chance of winning and subject a newborn babe to the whims of a mutinous hunger crazed band of former criminals?

Where Sam was setting in the cabin he wouldn't have had any chance of intercepting Rast's blade even if he could have seen it which he couldn't from his vantage point. Bear was dead no matter what Sam did so after Bear was stabbed the only logical thing to do was run and get Gilly and the babe and hit the road before Rast went on a killing spree and the men started raping the girls.

Sam did the smart thing.
 
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I was saddened by Mormont's death, but i guess the Night's Watch is pretty much done for, shame, i would have liked to see the organization becoming relevant again.
 
So you would have him stay and die in a fight he has no chance of winning and subject a newborn babe to the whims of a mutinous hunger crazed band of former criminals?

Sam did the smart thing.

Honor demanded from him to die for his Lord Commander ( with a deep voice ala "Gandalf when pissed of" ).

The mutineers were not about to kill the women and children were they ?
For the sake ( not sure if it is the proper word ) of the story, yes, he had to flee, he will surely have a bigger purpose later, he did have the black crystal shards but I would not have shed a tear if I'd died.
 
I've been watching the show but haven't yet taken the time to read the Song of Ice and Fire books, so I pretty much went into this episode blind for the most part. I knew that Dany was going to pull one over on the slave masters somehow and thought "Wouldn't it be sweet if she actually understood what that slave master was saying the whole time?" And sure enough! The moment she said "A dragon is not a slave" in his own language and he had this "oh s***!" look on his face was priceless! All throughout that last scene I was laughing, cheering and clapping at sheer awesome brilliance, both at Dany's complete masterstroke and the direction. And then of course that epic last shot of Dany's newfoung Unsullied army marching out of Astoria with the dragons in flight...look out Westeros! Winter may be coming, but so is the Khaleesi.

As for the mutiny of the Night's Watch at Craster's? DAMN! That I was not expecting at all. Granted, the tell-tale signs are all there: a bunch of former criminals slowly starving and freezing to death while their host continuously mocks them and flaunts his food and "wives" in their face? It was only a matter of time before there was breaking point. Also, I totally forgot about how the Lord Commander is Jorah's father, which really makes it tragic in that Jorah may never going to know what happened to his father. And of the course, the mutiny couldn't have happened at a worse time, considering how both Mance's followers and the White Walkers on the move.

Oh, and as great as Danys' "A dragon is not a slave" and "Dracarys" lines were, the best still has to go to Tywin's verbal smackdown of Cersei with his "I don't distrust you because you're a woman. I distrust you because you're not as smart as you think you are." Which, admit it, pretty much everyone watching that scene was thinking "Ain't that the truth."

My impression is that Margaery does like Sansa, has sympathy for her and wants to be compassionate, but she's still using her by arranging a marriage between her and Loras (who I'm assuming is the heir to Highgarden whereas he was the 3rd son in the books).

I don't expect for people to pick up on this, but look at the arranged marriages in the past. Stark and Tully, Arryn and Tully, Baratheon and Lannister. Before Lyanna died, she was betrothed to Robert so there would have been a Stark and Baratheon marriage. It's actually uncommon for these great houses to marry one another, usually they would marry within their territory to keep their vassals happy.

Anyway, you notice that the Tyrells are left out of all the above marriages. Most of it is likely due to ages, but they have an opportunity now to grab power. First it's through Margaery by her becoming queen. If they have Sansa marry Loras, you basically have a North-South alliance with the Tyrells and Starks as well as the Tullys to a lesser degree. Having influence over the North, Riverlands, and the Reach would be very powerful since it would provide them with the most natural resources and largest army.

It also can be seen as a smart military tactic on the Tyrell's part. Remember, the Lannisters are at war with Sansa's brother, Robb, and Sansa is their hostage. If Sansa marries Loras, it effectively takes her as a bargaining chip out of the Lannisters' hands and makes her one for the Tyrells. So if Robb manages to defeat the Lannisters and win the war, the Tyrells can turn around and say "Don't punish us. We not only saved your sister, we're family now." If the Lannisters win however, then the Tyrells, as you said, have secured a North-South, East-West alliance. Either way, it's a win-win situation for them.
 
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I don't like the character of Sam, I don't "hate" him but I see him as an "iron ball character" ( the kind prisoners used to wear ). That and his puppy gaze make it hard for me to sympathize.
Objectively, I agree with you, he had his moments but not protecting his Lord Commander and fleeing with a girl he knew for about 10 minutes is not one of them in my subjective opinion :)

Yeah, I see what you mean :oldrazz: but I think the girl would've been raped or something. But that's just speculation on my part haha, even though these people are ex-criminals and stuff.
 
Honor demanded from him to die for his Lord Commander ( with a deep voice ala "Gandalf when pissed of" ).

The mutineers were not about to kill the women and children were they ?
For the sake ( not sure if it is the proper word ) of the story, yes, he had to flee, he will surely have a bigger purpose later, he did have the black crystal shards but I would not have shed a tear if I'd died.

Maybe honor demanded Sam stay and fight with Mormount, but let's not forget that Sam was pretty much traumatized after his run in with the White Walkers. Even before the mutiny, you could tell his heart was no longer in it, so to speak. And yes, he most likely figures it's probably more right and noble to protect the girl and her newborn child (although his being smitten with her also plays a big part in doing so). And yes, the women and children are in danger from the mutineers. Let's not forget that the Night's Watch are comprised of criminals--including convicted rapists--who have undertaken a forced vow of celibacy. It doesn't take much imagination to speculate what's likely going to happen with Craster's "daughter-wives" during this mutiny, so Sam getting that girl and her baby out is definitely saving their lives.
 
It's also can be seen as a smart military tactic on the Tyrell's part. Remember, the Lannisters are at war with Sansa's brother, Robb, and Sansa is their hostage. If Sansa marries Loras, it effectively takes her as a bargaining chip out of the Lannisters' hands and makes her one for the Tyrells. So if Robb manages to defeat the Lannisters and win the war, the Tyrells can turn around and say "Don't punish us. We not only saved your sister, we're family now." If the Lannisters win however, then the Tyrells, as you said, have secured a North-South, East-West alliance. Either way, it's a win-win situation for them.

Exactly. They're a family that only gets involved if there's a way for them to always come out ahead. They'll switch sides at the drop of a hat if things start taking a turn for the worse. Even during Robert's Rebellion, all Mace Tyrell did was park his fatass at Storm's End and occasionally lob stones. The minute Ned Stark and his troops arrived, they left.
 
Honor demanded from him to die for his Lord Commander ( with a deep voice ala "Gandalf when pissed of" ).

The mutineers were not about to kill the women and children were they ?
For the sake ( not sure if it is the proper word ) of the story, yes, he had to flee, he will surely have a bigger purpose later, he did have the black crystal shards but I would not have shed a tear if I'd died.

Its more honorable to protect a woman and her newborn innocent child than an old dying man who can't be saved. If Sam could have intercepted Rasts blade then I might look at it different, but he couldn't. Mormont was dead no matter what Sam did and Sam staying behind to die with another dying man instead of saving a woman and her newborn child is simply ignorant honor be damned.

As for the women and children, the nights watch is made up of rapists, murderers and thieves. In the books you find out that most slip away to the nearby town and forsake their vows and have sex and drink routinely.

What do you think these mutineers would have done to the women and children once Mormont was dead? Like one of them said, "There are no oaths and laws beyond the wall." Beyond the wall with no commander their oaths mean even less than they did at the wall. So yes the women and children were in danger.
 
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In context of the world of Westeross, what the mutineers could have done to them was not worst than what their father did at best they would have ended their miserable lives.
I didn't gave more thought to the matter when watching the episode, many background people died so I didn't care if the girls-wifes died or not.
 
In context of the world of Westeross, what the mutineers could have done to them was not worst than what their father did at best they would have ended their miserable lives.
I didn't gave more thought to the matter when watching the episode, many background people died so I didn't care if the girls-wifes died or not.

So you're saying Sam should have just left Gilly and the child to rape and death? That's not honorable at all. I think you underestimate the world they live in and the depravity the men in the Night's watch are capable of. Yes, those mutineers could have done far worse than Crastor ever did. Crastor needed his daughters to survive. Their bodies needed to be capable of having future children. The mutineers don't care whether they live or die, and being raped to death in a gang rape is pretty damn bad.
 
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What ? I have no hate, it is a show, they are fictional characters.
Maybe to clarify to you, by "shed a tear" I meant, not be sad, like example when Lord Stark died, I cared for this character.
 
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