Game of Thrones - HBO part 2 - Part 9

[Doc Ock]

Really loved this episode, I still have hope in the remaining Starks. There were several moments I really enjoyed each involving my four favorite characters on the show!

I'm going to go nuts if Jon Snow is killed...

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Can't believe (well yes I can) that people are complaining/angry about dany being raised by the slaves since she is white and they are of color. Not everything has to involve race.

Well, when it comes to the issue of slavery, within a medieval setting, using all the tropes of the highly problematic 'great white liberator' story that has a long and very troubling history, yes it does involve race.

I would be fine with Dany rescuing the slaves if any effort was put to show that the slaves themselves were active agents in their own liberation, helping bring down Yunkai, which would have made its liberation more believable than sneaking a gate open. It is problematic because the series goes to painstaking lengths to show that while it is a noble-centred series, the people are still influential, and moreover, have active interests. The show, I cannot speak for the books but I imagine them as well, is highly concerned with lifting as much inspiration from real medieval societies as possible in how they operated.

This makes Dany's story troubling, because she is increasingly operating in a setting that has no real-world analogue or precedent, and seems incredibly fantastic, in the worst way. A slave society that isn't highly paranoid about revolts? Slaves that are entirely passive in a city with a would-be conqueror at its gates? It not only brings in a problematic racial element whereby the only time in the show that the common folk are entirely passive is when they are brown and slaves, with a pure white person needed to rescue them, but it is also problematic because it is so at odds with the rest of the show which lifts inspiration from real world societies. The end result is that it comes across as white man's burden played out in Conan the Barbarian while the rest of the narrative is above such shenanigans. That is why people are bringing race into it: because it features a great mass of childlike brown slaves who are saved by a destiny child white woman in a series that strives for a complex display of high-born/low-born interests and interactions.

And it came just after a whole sequence of talks about such things, only to reduce the masses at the end to a blubbering group calling for their 'mother,' which also has a lot of really racialised historical implications. THAT is why people are bringing race into it.

 

[Boom]

I can't believe they left out [blackout]Coldhands[/blackout].

 

[Reek]

I can't believe they left out [blackout]Coldhands[/blackout].

No [BLACKOUT]Coldhands. No Stoneheart. [/BLACKOUT]

But... Could make a STRONG S4 premiere.

 

[X-Ray]

That was a fine finale. Only bit I did not care for were Dany's scenes. Great soundtrack to it but it did nothing for me. Jon's scene at Castle Black as he's being lifted & Theon's sister's scene where she declares her intentions were great moments with goose bump worthy soundtracks to go along with it.

Glad we didn't have to wait a year to see a Stark score one for the late Cat & Robb Stark. Thank you Arya. Nicely done. "I can be quick." She wasn't lying.

I was hoping for a ***** slap moment from Tywinn to Jeoffry.

No [blackout]Stoneheart[/blackout] tonight makes more sense out of Heady's comment from last week. She hasn't read ahead & legitimately believes the red wedding was [blackout]Fairley's last scene[/blackout] since she had none for tonight's episode. I hope that's all it is & the character hasn't been written out.

 

[DACrowe]

Like all of GOT endings, it was not a series finale in the sense of television. It was a book epilogue after the real climax in Episode 9. Which is weird as this ended in the middle of ASOS, so it could have done more oh well.

The Ice Zombie ending of Season 2 did no more for me than Dany moshing with dragons. Cool special effects, but only a tease. They haven't topped the birth of the dragons.

Loved all the scenes with Arya or Tyrion. Especially her shanking that Frey (we need more of that, like ALL OF THEM) and Joffrey getting chewed out by Tywin. Tyrion set him up and Tywin laid him out. Tywin even showed he valued Tyrion's council to a degree by having him stay. Too bad that went FUBAR.

As for those who want [blackout]Lady Stoneheart[/blackout], I ask why? It only works if there has been some time since RW. One episode would be far too soon.

 

[Havok83]

Just saw it and thought it was boring. I think they should have had the events of last week be the season finale. A lot of the stuff from this week could have been put last week and left the Red Wedding as the closing segment of the season. The pacing really seemed off and the episode didn't really live up to any momentum built up across the last couple of months. With the Red Wedding, it at least could have went out with a bang and left people with something to talk for a year. The way they went about things was very anticlimatic

 

[Drz]

I would say for the grand audience it is better to end the season with something happy and cheerful than to see one of the main characters horribly mutilated and disgraced as the House Bolton rises as North's number 1 power.

 

[chamber-music]

Shae should of took Vary's advice. She is being pigheaded.

Pycelle deliberately dropping the message on the floor so Tyrion had to pick it up. What an ass.

 

[Ramsay Snow]

I liked Theon and Ramsay's scenes. Sometimes, I just like to sit back and be entertained by some great minor performances.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

"Any man who must say 'I am the King' is no true King."

Oh, Tywin, you glorious bastard. If I didn't hate you so much, I'd love you.

This. t:

I liked that we a got a glimpse into Tywin's "soft side", I guess, when he was talking about his wife. It was also great seeing him sit calmly during the council meeting, while Joffrey was prancing around "ZOMG, Robb Stark is dead, lol" - it was business as usual for him.

Not really a spoiler, but I'll tag it anyway since it's big

Spoiler

Nice parallel there.

I also have to say that Davos is increasingly becoming one of my favourite characters on the show. I'm looking forward to Stannis' involvment at the Wall.

Stannis does come off as a man with no conviction.

This bugs me too. As others have pointed out, he's supposed to be way better in the books. The impression I've been getting of him from the show is that he's almost merely following Melisandre's council.

Needless to say, I enjoyed watching Arya and the Hound kill those Frey *******s.

 

[Fans of Reilly]

Well, when it comes to the issue of slavery, within a medieval setting, using all the tropes of the highly problematic 'great white liberator' story that has a long and very troubling history, yes it does involve race.

I would be fine with Dany rescuing the slaves if any effort was put to show that the slaves themselves were active agents in their own liberation, helping bring down Yunkai, which would have made its liberation more believable than sneaking a gate open. It is problematic because the series goes to painstaking lengths to show that while it is a noble-centred series, the people are still influential, and moreover, have active interests. The show, I cannot speak for the books but I imagine them as well, is highly concerned with lifting as much inspiration from real medieval societies as possible in how they operated.

This makes Dany's story troubling, because she is increasingly operating in a setting that has no real-world analogue or precedent, and seems incredibly fantastic, in the worst way. A slave society that isn't highly paranoid about revolts? Slaves that are entirely passive in a city with a would-be conqueror at its gates? It not only brings in a problematic racial element whereby the only time in the show that the common folk are entirely passive is when they are brown and slaves, with a pure white person needed to rescue them, but it is also problematic because it is so at odds with the rest of the show which lifts inspiration from real world societies. The end result is that it comes across as white man's burden played out in Conan the Barbarian while the rest of the narrative is above such shenanigans. That is why people are bringing race into it: because it features a great mass of childlike brown slaves who are saved by a destiny child white woman in a series that strives for a complex display of high-born/low-born interests and interactions.

And it came just after a whole sequence of talks about such things, only to reduce the masses at the end to a blubbering group calling for their 'mother,' which also has a lot of really racialised historical implications. THAT is why people are bringing race into it.

I do not see where race was involve

 

[Mjölnir]

I just saw the episode and I liked it. It was the usual aftermath and setup for the next season as every episode 10. We got the obvious ending given the name of the episode, even if I had guessed at another thing. It wasn't the usual supernatural ending but Dany's "Messiah moment" really shows the difference between her and the other people that claim kingship.

I liked that we got to see a conversation between Walder Frey and Roose Bolton. Charles Dance also keeps being absolutely brilliant as Tywin Lannister and the little crack of emotion in his facade was awesome.

As for those who want [blackout]Lady Stoneheart[/blackout], I ask why? It only works if there has been some time since RW. One episode would be far too soon.

The event that would have been shown on the show occurs only three days after what happened in episode 9 and this episode was far longer than that (as ravens even had time to fly from Castle Black to Dragonstone in the middle of it). The book only mentions that part in hindsight, so that's why it comes much later than what was possible here.

 

[Mjölnir]

I would be fine with Dany rescuing the slaves if any effort was put to show that the slaves themselves were active agents in their own liberation, helping bring down Yunkai, which would have made its liberation more believable than sneaking a gate open. It is problematic because the series goes to painstaking lengths to show that while it is a noble-centred series, the people are still influential, and moreover, have active interests. The show, I cannot speak for the books but I imagine them as well, is highly concerned with lifting as much inspiration from real medieval societies as possible in how they operated.

They didn't just open the gates, the entire point of taking Yunkai was that the slaves didn't fight for their masters when the would-be conqueror wanted them to free their slaves.

As for the commoners, when do you think that the show has shown that they have any power to change anything?

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

What was so bad about the ending? It's cementing Dany as the new formidable threat to the Lannisters, replacing the Starks after their near obliteration last week.

It only cements that she's not a real contender, in my mind. She's not devious enough to survive against the Lannisters. That, and she's still no threat. Didn't Robb have more men, better strategy, and hadn't lost a battle?

She's got three dragons, but they're still little. And she may have an army, but she's never led anyone into battle.

Also, one of the more disturbing scenes had to be...

Spoiler

 

[Silvermoon]

Just finished my first viewing of the episode (I'll probably watch it again once I get home from work). It wasn't my favorite episode of the season (and not my favorite finale), but I didn't think it was that bad. I do know some of the spoilers that lie ahead like [BLACKOUT]Lady Stoneheart and Coldhands[/BLACKOUT] and I do wish something with either of those had been a last shot after seeing Dany, but I don't think it's a make it or break it thing. I think the episode works as is.

I have to say, one moment that I did love was Bran telling Meera and Jojen about the Rat Cook at the Nightfort and how he was punished by the gods because he killed a guest under his roof and then it immediately cuts to Walder Frey.

I also like it that Jon finally made it back to Castle Black (along with Sam).

Arya and The Hound coming upon those Frey men, Arya's getting scary and (if I understand spoilers I've read) is only going to get scarier poor kid.

I like how Tyrion and Sansa are treating each other... that walk that they had. He knows how she's been treated by Joffery and I love the kindness that he's been showing her. I think (at least at this point) that she respects him at least a little and appreciates his kindness as well (if that makes sense). I like how he - essentially - stands up for her during that small council and tells Joffery that he's not going to torture her anymore (and that whole council scene was awesome. Nice to see *some* tenderness come from Tywin, however brief it was)

Having listened to the soundtrack for the past week - it was also nice to hear some of the pieces of music that didn't happen until this episode and hear them in context.

Can't wait for S4, it'll be a long wait - but I'll bide my time in between by (trying to) finish my reading of the books

 

[kane9321]

Serious question: Does anyone give a **** about Dany?

Followup question: Does anyone who hasn't read the book give a **** about Dany?

uhm..yes and yes

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I actually like Dany. And Ser Jorah is pretty badass, too.

 

[Infinity9999x]

uhm..yes and yes

Well....for me it's a "kinda." Her story started out great, and they really started to drag around book 3 until it finally picked up at the very end of book 5.

 

[conan69]

I agree that Davos dialogue to Stannis about obligation to the realm would have really been nice... especially how the dialogue from other characters echoed the Red Wedding.... Tywins speech to Tyrion about putting family obligations before pesonal desires, and also Brans story about the rat who was cursed for breaking the sacred Bread & Salt tradition.

(And then yes you had Jon choosing duty over personal desire/love)

 

[kane9321]

Arya's getting scary AND I LOVE IT...I CAN WATCH AN HOUR OF HER AND THE HOUND KILLING FREYS MEN

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Really loved this episode, I still have hope in the remaining Starks. There were several moments I really enjoyed each involving my four favorite characters on the show!

I'm going to go nuts if Jon Snow is killed...

Eh, the Starks are done for. I suppose, in theory, Jon could have claimed the heir to Winterfell, had he not joined the Nightswatch. And the rest are too young and weak to do anything. And considered dead. I don't know how Bran or Rickon would even be able to prove who they are.

Basically, House Stark is what House Reyne was in the song of The Rains of Castamere. The house that got obliterated and then forgotten. That seemed to be how Cersi framed it, before the Red Wedding happened.

 

[SuperT]

There's absolutely no way House Stark will go the way of House Reyne. Even if the ones that are left haven't reached any level of maturity or power - it'll come. Maybe not for a long time but it'll come.

 

[Doc Ock]

Eh, the Starks are done for. I suppose, in theory, Jon could have claimed the heir to Winterfell, had he not joined the Nightswatch. And the rest are too young and weak to do anything. And considered dead. I don't know how Bran or Rickon would even be able to prove who they are.

Basically, House Stark is what House Reyne was in the song of The Rains of Castamere. The house that got obliterated and then forgotten. That seemed to be how Cersi framed it, before the Red Wedding happened.

I don't see the Starks as being done for, the ones left dont exactly have a lot of power to do anything related to taking up arms but I think Stark will be forgotten to only make a surprise return in the lands of Westeros, having Jon as the heir to Winterfell would be sweet!

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Well, I'm so apprehensive about holding out hope with everything that's happened. I'm with the Starks, so maybe I'm jaded? And yeah, the Starks could return someday. But, I don't think we'll ever see it happen. Not unless they do a crazy time jump, that is. Bran and Rickon are too young. Arya is too, and even if she wasn't Sansa is the older sister so she'd be the next in line anyway.

And I thought about Jon Snow...even though he is a bastard he could claim Winterfell and take on his father's name. But, he's man of the Nightswatch, so isn't he forbidden from that? Doesn't wearing the black keep him from claiming anything?