Hans Zimmer Scoring The Man of Steel - Part 1

[Ultimatehero]

Who is the fellow did the SR score? Often overlooked.

John Ottoman

 

[AnneFan]

Zimmer's cues mostly drive forward and create excitement that way. 'Why Do We Fall?' is as good example as any. If one doesn't remember the exact melody, I'm sure it gets them get swept up in the moment.

These samples are something completely different from Williams. And that's fantastic for a modern relaunch.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The sad tunes sound like they're the same. But, point is -- all films have that. Play those anywhere in the world and there isn't anything in them that's loud enough. It's just, "yep, those belong with the same film - what is it?" Which you can say for most composed films. I mean one singular connective tissue across most of them that when you hear it you instantly recognize it.

- Superman
- James Bond
- Star Wars
- Indiana Jones
- Psycho
- Jaws
- Batman
- Spider-Man even had one
- Etc.

That one stand-out couple of notes that you'd hear throughout and that you'd know throughout. And by the time the academy awards roll by, should be nominated. I'm talking that level of instant recognition. As said, I'm hoping there's something. But it sounds like they went completely opposite of the John Williams route not that the John Williams theme isn't in it, but there isn't any singular unifying chords nor building chords to it throughout most of them that I can hear right now.

Yeah, I am going to take a wild guess and say you don't listen to Eno or Hecker. That is what he is evoking, and you aren't going to find many scores like that at all. I didn't need more then a few moments to realize he has captured the awe, loneliness and nervous tension of space.

But please, name all these scores that sound similar to what I just heard.

 

[Ultimatehero]

These samples are something completely different from Williams. And that's fantastic for a modern relaunch.

Agree to disagree, I was just looking for something people would hear 30 years from now and still remember.

But please, name all these scores that sound similar to what I just heard.

No one is saying scores that are similar. What is being said IS every film has their own motifs that you'd know they belong to that film if you hear the songs together. I'm talking about life outside of their scores.

What I'm talking about is not just a great sounding soundtrack, but one that would be recognizable 30 years from now like all of the great themes I just named. Blade Runner had great music and was an amazing film, but play somebody something from Blade Runner and I doubt they'd know what film they were listening to. As opposed to play them just a couple of notes from the above and every generation knows.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Who is the fellow did the SR score? Often overlooked.

Still a fan of it. What he added some good stuff.

Zimmer's cues mostly drive forward and create excitement that way. 'Why Do We Fall?' is as good example as any. If one doesn't remember the exact melody, I'm sure it gets them get swept up in the moment.

These samples are something completely different from Williams. And that's fantastic for a modern relaunch.

There is a reason you clutch your chest at the end of Begins, TDK, and TDKR. The music is perfect. Fits the imagery to a tee and intensifies it 10 fold.

 

[Project862006]

Agree to disagree, I was just looking for something people would hear 30 years from now and still remember.



No one is saying scores that are similar. What is being said IS every film has their own motifs that you'd know they belong to that film if you hear the songs together.

What I'm talking about is not just a great sounding soundtrack, but one that would be recognizable 30 years from now like all of the great themes I just named. Blade Runner had great music and was an amazing film, but play somebody something from Blade Runner and I doubt they'd know what film they were listening to. As opposed to play them just a couple of notes from the above and every generation knows.

well that a pretty ridiculous expectation you set

and really dude it was 30 second samples overreact much lol

 

[AnneFan]

I think it would be harsh for one to say Zimmer failed because he didn't create a theme like Williams. Especially when they're totally different, and it's all subjective anyway. Zimmer's job is to capture the vibe of this 2013 movie. If he does so, the job will have been successful, not a failure.

 

[Ultimatehero]

well that a pretty ridiculous expectation you set

and really dude it was 30 second samples overreact much lol

Well, Zimmer did sound from interviews like he did have something that would meet those expectations.

Usually even from those 30 seconds you can tell if you listen to the films which have them. Which granted, the only one that comes to mind like it could survive is Danny Elfman's Spider-Man from "recent" years.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Agree to disagree, I was just looking for something people would hear 30 years from now and still remember.



No one is saying scores that are similar. What is being said IS every film has their own motifs that you'd know they belong to that film if you hear the songs together.

What I'm talking about is not just a great sounding soundtrack, but one that would be recognizable 30 years from now like all of the great themes I just named.

But that isn't a valid criticism of the quality of the music whatsoever. What matters most is how it goes along with the actual imagery. You can recall something do to music, without having to hum it. And you most certainly have no idea if in 30 years it won't be remembered.

Considering how much cred Zimmer has built up over the last 2 decades, I think it just might.

And I can honestly tell you, I don't remember the Spider-Man theme whatsoever.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well, Zimmer did sound from interviews like he did have something that would meet those expectations.

Usually even from those 30 seconds you can tell if you listen to the films which have them. Which granted, the only one that comes to mind like it could survive is Danny Elfman's Spider-Man from "recent" years.

Which just shows how lost you really are on the subject. Just two very easy examples.

Lord of the Rings.

Harry Flippin' Potter.

That is to avoid that Zimmer has done something similar with Batman. Heck Pirates and Sherlock both have strong themes.

 

[mclay18]

I listened to the samples... I'm a bit underwhelmed. It feels too ambient, not enough orchestral. I'm not saying Zimmer should've tried something in Williams' footsteps, but something that was more POTC (i.e. more catchy) he failed to do.

I do give credit for Zimmer weaving that thematic idea (present in the trailer) through several tracks in the album. I'm going to have to see the film first before I get the soundtrack.

 

[Ultimatehero]

I'd say Star Wars, Superman, Indiana Jones, Jaws, etc. disagree with the statement that you can't have a recognizable theme the world-over and not still be connected with the imagery. Harsh, yes, but it had a lot to live up to.

Then Spider-Man isn't one, if you listen to the ones that are - they're all rather simple sounding, but rather loud and complex when brought to their highest levels. I can't name one really complex or odd sounding theme from the past. I wouldn't really say Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings were complex. Harry Potter has those nine notes. Lord of the Rings has the elfish humming. Here it's too, as McClay, pointed out "ambient." As said, hopefully there's more to it -- but it seems like the 'Man of Steel' track IS the theme, just hoping there's something that followed after where it cut off.

 

[X Knight]

so do any of the samples sound similar to the trailer music?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

so do any of the samples sound similar to the trailer music?

Yes.

 

[X Knight]

Yes.

thanks.

is that nice piano music at the start of the trailer in any of the samples?

can't listen to the tracks at the moment.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I agree with Ultimate Hero on all this.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'd say Star Wars, Superman, Indiana Jones, Jaws, etc. disagree with the statement that you can't have a recognizable theme the world-over and not still be connected with the imagery. Harsh, yes, but it had a lot to live up to.

Then Spider-Man isn't one, if you listen to the ones that are - they're all rather simple sounding, but rather loud and complex when brought to their highest levels. I can't name one really complex or odd sounding theme from the past. I wouldn't really say Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings were complex. Harry Potter has those five notes. Lord of the Rings has the elfish humming. Here it's too, as McClay, pointed out "ambient." As said, hopefully there's more to it -- but it seems like the 'Man of Steel' track IS the theme, just hoping there's something that followed after where it cut off.

And you are completely missing the point, especially with your LotR analysis. The major themes in LotR don't play during the title cards. LotR has "Concerning Hobbits" and the Fellowship theme, that run throughout the series along with a couple others.

And you don't think more people know Hedwig's theme then well... almost anything really. It is the ultimate whistling song. Kids and their parents spent a decade with it.

What you are attempting to do is apply how scores were crafted decades ago to now. Forgetting also, that while films like Star Wars and Indy have recognizably themes (in SW case a fair few), their scores are built on far more then that.

thanks.

is that nice piano music at the start of the trailer in any of the samples?

can't listen to the tracks at the moment.

Yes.

 

[X Knight]

awesome, thanks!

 

[BatLobster]

I really love the sound of the drums. So much power. Most of the samples cut off right as the track is getting good, so hard to say.

But I'm definitely sensing a nice mix of tenderness and commanding power behind this score.

 

[Ultimatehero]

Concerning Hobbits is around 10 to fifteen notes, I think. 10 to 15 notes that repeat themselves. It's simple. Duh-duh-duh-da-da-da-duh-duh-DA-DA.

Hedwig's theme, I'm pretty sure is the nine note formation that I just mentioned. Duh-duh-dah-duh-da-da-da-duh-duh-dah-duh-da-da. Simple.

The problem here is -- where are those notes? Where is that chord progression? You've said "floating through space alone" and another poster said "ambient" and that's what it sounds like. It sounds like the kind of noise you'd hear when hovering in space or the kind of soundtrack you'd get from placing a tape recorder in a forest and pressing record. And while that's good, where is the chord progression to remember it by? As said, hopefully the chords in 'Man of Steel' build to something - but, that is the theme, that is the one thing present throughout all of them and that's not a chord progression it's ambience.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Concerning Hobbits is around 10 to fifteen notes, I think. 10 to 15 notes that repeat themselves. It's simple. Duh-duh-duh-da-da-da-duh-duh-DA-DA.

Hedwig's theme, I'm pretty sure is the nine note formation that I just mentioned. Duh-duh-duh-duh-da-da-da-duh-duh-duh-da-da. Simple.

The problem here is -- where are those notes? Where is that chord progression? You've said "floating through space alone" and another poster said "ambient" and that's what it sounds like. It sounds like the kind of noise you'd hear when hovering in space or the kind of soundtrack you'd get from placing a tape recorder in a forest and pressing record. And while that's good, where is the chord progression to remember it by? As said, hopefully the chords in 'Man of Steel' build to something - but, that is the theme, that is the one thing present throughout all of them and that's not a chord progression it's ambience.

What does the complexity of those themes have to do with how ridiculously memorable they are?

Also. You cant get it by sticking your tape recorder in the forest and pressing record. This is artistic interpretation, that invokes imagery and emotion. Like Eno. A well crafted piece of music that tells a story like a good painting would.

When a piece of music is suppose to invoke space and it does that, it is a very good start.

 

[Norek]

I'd say Star Wars, Superman, Indiana Jones, Jaws, etc. disagree with the statement that you can't have a recognizable theme the world-over and not still be connected with the imagery. Harsh, yes, but it had a lot to live up to.

Then Spider-Man isn't one, if you listen to the ones that are - they're all rather simple sounding, but rather loud and complex when brought to their highest levels. I can't name one really complex or odd sounding theme from the past. I wouldn't really say Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings were complex.

I can't see how HP's and LOTR's, complex or not, aren't recognizable.

 

[Bran-El]

Okay so the samples were a bit underwhelming IMHO but keep in mind these are roughly 30 second clips. I don't recall POTC: Curse of The Black Pearl soundtrack having a main title yet once the tracks play through you do get to a theme. I mean for example one song is titled Will & Elisabeth and it sounds like the blacksmith forge sword duel. Sure "He's a Pirate" has become the trademark theme, but seriously how many people would identify that as the name? So really any of the tracks could contain a repetitive melody.

For the record, I like recognizable themes and I don't see why Zimmer wouldn't use Ideals of Hope as the main theme. Just a guess but I bet that's the theme that will be woven all the way through. I think that will turn out to be the main theme with the drum buildup, but it's kinda premature to judge based on these short teasers.

 

[Ultimatehero]

They're simple. Name one complex theme that audiences remember.

You really expect an audience to remember ambience and the sounds of floating through space? While a good start, and nobody's not saying it isn't, what is being said is it should be a lot more than that. There should be at least some notable chord progression and that's what I'm seriously hoping is cut off from the 'Man of Steel' track.

I can't see how HP's and LOTR's, complex or not, aren't recognizable.

If you read what I wrote I didn't say that they were not recognizable. They're recognizable. They're simple. They're chord-progression. They're not ambience. You can sum them up through basic duhs, dahs, and das. Here? Right now it's more dsssssssshssshsssshsss. And while it sounds great, don't get me wrong, I don't see anything that stands out.

 

[BatLobster]

The theme could potentially be in the movie a lot more than what you hear on the OST. The thing is his OSTs are arranged like albums, so it's not going to contain every reprisal of the theme.

Another thing to watch out for is not getting too attached to a cue. It happened several times with me on the TDK Trilogy where a cue I loved on the album was nowhere to be found in the movie.