Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 4

[Jobling]

I this photos show something of his body,and he is big...

 

[Kryptonian Warrior]

I this photos show something of his body,and he is big...

Yeah, it does look like he has some nice big shoulders. I personally think that he is perfectly built. I really think all this talk about him being "too small" is much ado about nothing. The dude has great acting chops! Doesn't that count for something?

 

[--Zero-Ethic--]

Yeah, it does look like he has some nice big shoulders. I personally think that he is perfectly built. I really think all this talk about him being "too small" is much ado about nothing. The dude has great acting chops! Doesn't that count for something?

I think when some people read comics they just looked at the pretty pictures :P

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

This will probably sound a little rude but you do not have the best idea what you are talking about. It's alright though, there is a lot of ******** broscience about weight training and muscle growth, You do not gain "definition" by putting on muscle mass. Definition is a measure of body fat levels. The less fat you have under your skin the more one can see the definition of your muscles. What you are referring to as "definition" is muscular development.

My whole point was based around two hypothetical subjects with the same body fat percentage. I thought that would have been clear when I mentioned the Vitruvian Man. And how essentially it applies to all human, aside from those with defects as we all carry near identical genomes, with minutes differences. I clearly was not. But thank you for expanding upon my point human anatomy/physiology isn't the strongest point in my knowledge and it's true you learn something every day.

 

[Kryptonian Warrior]

I think when some people read comics they just looked at the pretty pictures :P

I am of the opinion that they absolutely should include pop-up-pictures in today's comic books. :P

 

[Astrodust]

I think Cavill's hairstyle gives off the illusion that he isn't as big as some people think. That and the loose fitting shirt.

 

[DKDetective]

My whole point was based around two hypothetical subjects with the same body fat percentage. I thought that would have been clear when I mentioned the Vitruvian Man. And how essentially it applies to all human, aside from those with defects as we all carry near identical genomes, with minutes differences. I clearly was not. But thank you for expanding upon my point human anatomy/physiology isn't the strongest point in my knowledge and it's true you learn something every day.

Sorry, if I was little rough. As an amateur bodybuilder and someone who has a great interest in the science of strength training, I've just been frustrated by a lot of the poor science (we call it "broscience") thrown out in this thread to back up arguments about Cavill's physique.

However, I have to disagree about the appropriateness of the Vitruvian Man example in this context. It was an idealized, Romantic ideal based on averages. To be fair, Davinci did not have the best sample group for his research. He had a bunch of Italians who ate the same diet. Human proportions do vary. Look at Michael Phelps for an extreme example. I think my biggest point though is that small differences in structure can make large differences in appearance especially when you add more and more muscle. The shape and size of muscle bellies vary greatly. Some people have deep horseshoes in their triceps, others very shallow ones.

Routh looked very generally crappy in the suit because of his genetics. It wasn't just the design. You can see how abnormally long his torso was and the proportionate small size of his pectorals because of their high insertions. Combine that with a smaller ribcage and you have a Superman who looks neither powerful nor broad.

Despite being smaller, especially in the arms than comparators like Evans or Routh, Cavill currently has more potential to look impressive in the suit. It's all a game of proportions.

 

[Astrodust]

You guys should take this to the bodybuilding forum. No one here really cares about your broscience.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Oh, naw it's cool , you must get real pissed at people thinking they know everything, I thought I had basic knowledge, which, it seems not, but if anyone get's into an argument regarding his powers, you can bet I'll be there to layeth the smacketh down on their candy bottoms with some theoretical physics. W00T.

 

[Michael Corleone]

This will probably sound a little rude but you do not have the best idea what you are talking about. It's alright though, there is a lot of ******** broscience about weight training and muscle growth, You do not gain "definition" by putting on muscle mass. Definition is a measure of body fat levels. The less fat you have under your skin the more one can see the definition of your muscles. What you are referring to as "definition" is muscular development.

Moreover, it is harder for taller to gain muscle and get stronger in certain muscle groups. Taller people have longer limbs and that puts stress on joints and, as such, they are more prone to injury. Also, to perform one repetition with the same weight, they have make it travel a longer distance and that means a greater workload. They end up having to recruit other muscles to help. Why do you think a tall bodybuilder like Arnold had comparatively less developed legs compared to his friend Franco Columbu who is only 5' 5"?

Moreover, even if people are all largely the same proportions, some differences in structure and proportion can make tremendous differences in the way that one looks and carries muscle mass. You need only follow professional bodybuilding to see it. There are plenty of bodybuilders with comparable heights, weights, and levels of development whose physiques look very different.

However, you are correct that it takes more muscle mass for a taller person to fill out their frame and appear to be of similar development as a shorter person. However, differences in frame and structure can vary things. People with smaller joints and bones tend to look more developed with less actual mass gain.

By the way, any posters who wish to base their arguments in a stronger knowledge of the science of muscle growth and resistance training, visit www.t-nation.com The authors actually know what they are talking about as they are well-regarded professional. Many act as certified strength coaches for universities and professional athletes.

I think some people are naturally assuming that Cavill is going to a gym and strictly lifting weights. From everything I've seen about GYMJones it's pretty much completely different. It's more about building muscle in a practical sense rather than just pushing iron for several hours. A lot of movement rather than your typical weight training. I think that shows in his physique. Yeah he may not look really huge but I'm willing to bet he is in fantastic shape and proportioned very well.

 

[SatEL]

Stop being silly, you silly billy. Most humans are the same in proportion, as discovered around 500 years ago, during the Renaissance. Which is why the Vitruvian man applies to most humans, for every 1 inch taller you are, you have to gain around another 10 pounds of muscle to achieve the same definition as someone 1 inch shorter than you as the muscle cells are spread over a larger surface area, but taller people gain muscle quicker. I was just saying, he literally doesn't need to have put on much more than what he did, maybe another 5 pounds.

Stop being silly, you silly billy. And proportions has what to do with definition now? Honestly you know **** all, Ok Leonardo reborn let me educate you on a few things you don’t get definition by "simply adding mass" it just doesn’t work like that. You walk into a gym sprouting that ******** and you will simply be laughed out. Also you cant be equally as defined as someone because things like genetics come into play, even if you was to hit the same body parts and follow their routine to a tee you will still encounter the great wall called genetics. And if your not gifted in that regards then no matter how much you train and follow someone else’s routine you will not look like them. Oh also BF percentage comes into play...............just letting you know silly billy.

 

[DKDetective]

I think some people are naturally assuming that Cavill is going to a gym and strictly lifting weights. From everything I've seen about GYMJones it's pretty much completely different. It's more about building muscle in a practical sense rather than just pushing iron for several hours. A lot of movement rather than your typical weight training. I think that shows in his physique. Yeah he may not look really huge but I'm willing to bet he is in fantastic shape and proportioned very well.

I totally agree. It definitely shows in his strong shoulders and torso muscles. In my opinion, Superman needs a big thick chest to look right. Comparatively smaller and more appropriately proportioned arms will actually give him a more powerful looking and classical physique than say Hemsworthy or Evans.

Most leadings gyms and trainers do what GYMJones does. Personally, I do a lot of that stuff like sled pulls, tire, and sledgehammer work. I don't know much about GymJones since I'm Canadian, but do you know if they incorporate any high intensity lifting like heavy singles or triples? A lot of recent research has been claiming that stuff like that actually causes microtears in muscle fibers, which causes them to split and increases the number of fibers. Traditional hypertrophy training simply thickens and strengthens existing fibers. Allegedly, very heavy lifting like that gives muscles a denser look which make Cavill's reveal all the more impressive.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Whoa. Please calm down people. We know nothing yet. Please chill. Its more than likely a muscle suit will be used to help with definition as the material will be constricting. Think spidey suit.

 

[Michael Corleone]

I totally agree. It definitely shows in his strong shoulders and torso muscles. In my opinion, Superman needs a big thick chest to look right. Comparatively smaller and more appropriately proportioned arms will actually give him a more powerful looking and classical physique than say Hemsworthy or Evans.

Most leadings gyms and trainers do what GYMJones does. Personally, I do a lot of that stuff like sled pulls, tire, and sledgehammer work. I don't know much about GymJones since I'm Canadian, but do you know if they incorporate any high intensity lifting like heavy singles or triples? A lot of recent research has been claiming that stuff like that actually causes microtears in muscle fibers, which causes them to split and increases the number of fibers. Traditional hypertrophy training simply thickens and strengthens existing fibers. Allegedly, very heavy lifting like that gives muscles a denser look which make Cavill's reveal all the more impressive.

I've been trying to find out more about it, but they seem to be sort of secretive about their training. Going as far as to say each program is tailored to the specific individual and what they're looking to accomplish. They used to have a lot of videos on the site about their techniques (this was around the time 300 came out) but it's since disappeared. I'm assuming it has something to do with all the "300 workouts" that came out immediately after the film that had very little to do with their program outside of using kettle bells, tires etc.

As far as heavy singles and triples... It looks like they do, but its hard to tell as the videos that do exist show multiple shots and they're edited showing different people. I'd make the assumption that they do but it depends on what the person is trying to accomplish. It seems to vary from person to person.

Unfortunately there aren't any gyms around here that offer the equipment or the space. I'd love to give it a try but it's a matter of getting the equipment myself and right now I'm only about 6 months back into it after several years off so I want to make sure I have existing strength before I try something where I'm going to hurt myself ya know. Don't want to get in there and do something stupid just because I watched a youtube video. ha

Edit: here's video of some of the training as you can see its different people so I don't know if this is all one program or different ones tailored to different people. Which I'm going to assume it probably is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=628qphA1-8M

 

[Showtime]

Some of you need to calm it a bit on both sides.

 

[Slugster]

LOL!!!! scary huh?

 

[DKDetective]

I've been trying to find out more about it, but they seem to be sort of secretive about their training. Going as far as to say each program is tailored to the specific individual and what they're looking to accomplish. They used to have a lot of videos on the site about their techniques (this was around the time 300 came out) but it's since disappeared. I'm assuming it has something to do with all the "300 workouts" that came out immediately after the film that had very little to do with their program outside of using kettle bells, tires etc.

As far as heavy singles and triples... It looks like they do, but its hard to tell as the videos that do exist show multiple shots and they're edited showing different people. I'd make the assumption that they do but it depends on what the person is trying to accomplish. It seems to vary from person to person.

Unfortunately there aren't any gyms around here that offer the equipment or the space. I'd love to give it a try but it's a matter of getting the equipment myself and right now I'm only about 6 months back into it after several years off so I want to make sure I have existing strength before I try something where I'm going to hurt myself ya know. Don't want to get in there and do something stupid just because I watched a youtube video. ha

Edit: here's video of some of the training as you can see its different people so I don't know if this is all one program or different ones tailored to different people. Which I'm going to assume it probably is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=628qphA1-8M

Cool, man. Being someone who lifts, what is your ideal size/type of physique for Cavill as Superman?

Personally, I've always thought Bale's shape in Begins (as seen above) but a little leaner would be perfect for movie Superman as well.

 

[GoblinWhirlwind]

If Cavill said they're already shooting, I wonder if they're shooting younger Clark scenes first. Has Amy Adams' been spotted anywhere with dark hair yet?

I hope we get the first Superman shot by the end of the year. That'd fit the timeframe of the first Spidey shot... that came out this past January.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Cool, man. Being someone who lifts, what is your ideal size/type of physique for Cavill as Superman?

Personally, I've always thought Bale's shape in Begins (as seen above) but a little leaner would be perfect for movie Superman as well.

Totally agree with you here. Bale had really good proportions in my opinion and it looked natural. He did have a lot of bulk on him but I'm going to assume that was because of where he started off from. I know it's not impossible but the level at which he bounced back from The Machinist was down right staggering. Then again I guess that works when you're building from essentially nothing. The body just responds immediately after not having anything for that length of time. But yeah just slightly leaner than where he was. I think his mid section is just a little big. He's basically a tree trunk there. His chest, arms and shoulders look great and it works for Batman. He's human and supposed to be a tough SOB. I think Superman works better with a leaner build and a more graceful looking shape. He should look strong and fast. Bale looked like he could barrel through you. Not dogging on Hemsworth but, for comparison while he was big he looked more blown up. It looked like the muscle was temporary and just for the film. I know he's a big guy to begin with but still it was a little disproportionate for my taste.

 

[DKDetective]

Totally agree with you here. Bale had really good proportions in my opinion and it looked natural. He did have a lot of bulk on him but I'm going to assume that was because of where he started off from. I know it's not impossible but the level at which he bounced back from The Machinist was down right staggering. Then again I guess that works when you're building from essentially nothing. The body just responds immediately after not having anything for that length of time. But yeah just slightly leaner than where he was. I think his mid section is just a little big. He's basically a tree trunk there. His chest, arms and shoulders look great and it works for Batman. He's human and supposed to be a tough SOB. I think Superman works better with a leaner build and a more graceful looking shape. He should look strong and fast. Bale looked like he could barrel through you. Not dogging on Hemsworth but, for comparison while he was big he looked more blown up. It looked like the muscle was temporary and just for the film. I know he's a big guy to begin with but still it was a little disproportionate for my taste.

Totally agreed about Hemsworth. What he did sizewise was very respectable, but it didn't look permanent. Everything was too soft and round. Also, his back was slacking in comparison to his chest, he had a bit of caveman posture.

Superman in my opinion should be the complete opposite. I think his muscle should have a dense, grainy look to it like you would see on people who physically worked for a living. Essentially that all-American corn fed farmboy look. But also lean and fast looking as you said. I guess the physique of a college football star except with more mature, hard muscles. To me, the hard, grainy look of the muscles is more important than size. GYMJones hopefully will have achieved that.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Totally agreed about Hemsworth. What he did sizewise was very respectable, but it didn't look permanent. Everything was too soft and round. Also, his back was slacking in comparison to his chest, he had a bit of caveman posture.

Superman in my opinion should be the complete opposite. I think his muscle should have a dense, grainy look to it like you would see on people who physically worked for a living. Essentially that all-American corn fed farmboy look. But also lean and fast looking as you said. I guess the physique of a college football star except with more mature, hard muscles. To me, the hard, grainy look of the muscles is more important than size. GYMJones hopefully will have achieved that.

Yeah, granted he doesn't need to but I always pictured it as looking like someone who does manual labor all day on a farm. Not huge but obviously works his body naturally throughout the day. If I remember correctly there was an interview around the time of 300 where the guys from GYMJones were saying something similar. Staying away from that beach body/frat boy look and have a real functional body shape.

 

[Showtime]

Thank you DKDetective, Michael Corleone, and some others for actually being civil in your discussions.

 

[Young Superman]

I can't wait to see Henry Cavill as Superman. I just hope he's wearing the classic costume and not that new one. It looks like crap.

 

[KalMart]

Totally agree with you here. Bale had really good proportions in my opinion and it looked natural. He did have a lot of bulk on him but I'm going to assume that was because of where he started off from. I know it's not impossible but the level at which he bounced back from The Machinist was down right staggering. Then again I guess that works when you're building from essentially nothing. The body just responds immediately after not having anything for that length of time. But yeah just slightly leaner than where he was. I think his mid section is just a little big. He's basically a tree trunk there. His chest, arms and shoulders look great and it works for Batman. He's human and supposed to be a tough SOB. I think Superman works better with a leaner build and a more graceful looking shape. He should look strong and fast. Bale looked like he could barrel through you. Not dogging on Hemsworth but, for comparison while he was big he looked more blown up. It looked like the muscle was temporary and just for the film. I know he's a big guy to begin with but still it was a little disproportionate for my taste.

I think Bale and Cavill have very similar frames and proportions, in that they actually look taller the leaner they are....as opposed to someone like Jackman or Hemsworth who will always look tall with or without big muscles, regardless of true height. Head size in proportion to body, length of limbs, etc. But I also agree that a more 'naturally' muscular look is probably more appropriate for Superman than a hyper-ripped one that screams 'gym-rat', or what have you.


Something more like this (Clint Walker)....

And less like this (Frank Zane)....

 

[Agentdemon]

How do you figure? For BB, Bale went from 120 to 200 in five months. By your theory he gained 10 lbs muscle and 70 lbs fat. How does that make sense? He would've been -- literally -- a fatass.

His body fat was between 15-20%, no more. What he gained was more than half muscle -- something like 50-60lbs muscle in five months. By your logic, he had to do teh steroids. Give me a break.

Nice job with the straw man argument, where did I say he gained that much fat and so little muscle? Re-read my post. He ballooned up to 180 lbs in roughly 6 weeks for the screen test and according to bale it was mostly fat. He then lifted for 4-5 months to get to his peak weight of ~220 lbs.

Again, muscle memory plays a huge part in his transformation. It's a real phenomenon which anyone whose every lifted seriously and quit then returned can attest to the the rapid muscle gain that they lost.
From 180 lbs to 220 lbs he certainly recomposed, dropping body fat while gaining muscle and that's not something that generally happens under normal circumstances.

Cavill is not Bale and is not 120 lbs, his gains will be roughly the numbers I specified since manufacturing muscle as a intermediate/advanced lifter (which I'm assuming Cavill is since he's got a solid base) won't ever be as much as someone new to lifting or coming off a break.

Paper emphasizing maximum rate of muscle gain:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html

Bale discussing his weight gain:
http://movies.radiofree.com/interviews/batman5_christian_bale.shtml