The Dark Knight Rises In hindsight what changes would you do - Part 1

[Snow Queen]

We never got the "NO MORE DEAD COPS" out of TDKR.

We got a flying hat guy though.

But nobody tops falafel guy.

 

[BatLobster]

Long live falafel guy. And oh man almost forgot about hat guy and this epicness:

Spoiler

*sigh*...good times.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

as much as I like TDK, it would have been cool if Dent didn't die. And if Ra's hadn't died either.

What if at the end of TDK, in order to hide his tragic downfall, they fake Dent's death and lock/hide him in a private cell/wing of Arkham (where he truly goes mad after 8 years).

In TDKR, Bane/Talia come to free not only Blackgate, but Arkham as well (because of the 'wrongly' imprisoned Dent which they discover).

Two Face, Joker, Scarecrow, (and perhaps Ra's himself, if he hadn't died) are all freed, and each gets their own little setpiece in the movie.

 

[BatLobster]

As cool as that all would've been, to me that sounds more like the plot of an Arkham video game than a movie that fits into this series.

In all seriousness, imagine that TDK ending montage with added shots of Dent being locked away in Arkham. It would totally deflate the feeling of finality in TDK because all we'd be thinking is "oh man Two-Face is gonna get out in the sequel and all hell is gonna break lose!". Idk, I guess I never was a fan of the Dent living idea. One coverup is enough. A coverup on top of a coverup just seems like a bit much, and would seem like an obviously foolish move on Batman's part.

 

[uniqueweasel]

I know this will get picked apart and my interpretations of the film or my general intelligence will come into question, or if this has already been bought up, forgive me (god these batboards are intimidating) but I felt just as a little addition to this discussion, I have noiticed on a lot of occasions the time factor has been bought up in regards to scenes been cut etc.

Which bnngs me to my point, I was listening to Kevin Smiths smodcast with Scott Mosier, and Mosier bought up the argument that was the time spent showing Bane aquire Pavel, then getting him to set in motion the bomb aswell as the whole Miranda deception to get the whereabouts of the generator, really that necessary? If you think about it couldn't it of just been Banes got hold of some kind of chemical bomb, etc, and not have to have it being Bruces project gone wrong, etc. It just seemed interesting to me that time seems to have been a factor a lot with the story and by cutting down this idea could have saved quite a large portion of time, and granted would of changed the story, but would it of changed it for that much worse?

Anyways theres my two cents, I guess it's time for me to start feeling stupid now......

 

[The Joker]

The city never showed much of a reaction to anything. Unlike in Begins and TDK, where we got a real sense of how the city felt about Batman and the Joker, Gotham seemed really empty and hollow in TDKR. Its unfortunate, because this is the one movie where the city could have really come forward as a character of its own.

Exactly. TDKR is the movie where Gotham's personality should have been most important of all.

 

[Tequilla]

I know this will get picked apart and my interpretations of the film or my general intelligence will come into question, or if this has already been bought up, forgive me (god these batboards are intimidating) but I felt just as a little addition to this discussion, I have noiticed on a lot of occasions the time factor has been bought up in regards to scenes been cut etc.

Which bnngs me to my point, I was listening to Kevin Smiths smodcast with Scott Mosier, and Mosier bought up the argument that was the time spent showing Bane aquire Pavel, then getting him to set in motion the bomb aswell as the whole Miranda deception to get the whereabouts of the generator, really that necessary? If you think about it couldn't it of just been Banes got hold of some kind of chemical bomb, etc, and not have to have it being Bruces project gone wrong, etc. It just seemed interesting to me that time seems to have been a factor a lot with the story and by cutting down this idea could have saved quite a large portion of time, and granted would of changed the story, but would it of changed it for that much worse?

Anyways theres my two cents, I guess it's time for me to start feeling stupid now......

Why is this board intimidating ?

The idea of Los using a tool that Bruce created to help the citizens of Gotham , that ends up being a weapon of mass destruction that brings terror to the city , fits with the personal vendetta they had against him.

Also from a practical point of view , i suppose nuclear bombs are kinda hard to attain and transport. Having the possibility to have one in the center of the city they wanted to terrorize , torture and destroy...its almost too good to let it go t:

 

[BatLobster]

I also think having it be a sci-fi Wayne Enterprises device kept things more in the realm of escapism. As an American, I'd hate to think that it'd be so easy for a terrorist group to just smuggle a nuke over our borders unnoticed. The way it happened in the movie, while frightening, also had a degree of separation from reality. Perfect blend for the pseudo-comic book realism of the Nolan movies.

And Tequilla is right too, it's more of the LOS using Bruce's money against him which ties into the personal (and philosophical) vendetta they have with Bruce/the Wayne family.

I love Mosier, but his ideas for how TDKR should have transpired were hilariously bad haha. He seems to think all comic book movies should lose Act 1 (and most of 2) and just be one giant third act.

 

[Victarion]

I like the idea that the thing Bruce used to try to move on past Joker killing Rachel was turned against him and put his city in danger.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Exactly. TDKR is the movie where Gotham's personality should have been most important of all.

I always juggle this idea in my head because I loved how TDKR felt like a character piece with ending Bruce's arc while building on Blake's. The main film of the trilogy that focused on the heart and soul of Gotham(TDK) had little to do with developing Bruce that we didn't already get in BB. Maybe if indeed longer, both could have been obtained with focusing on Gotham's soul while also continuing to end Bruce's arc and simultaneously building on Blake's.

 

[JackWhite]

Bruce's whole arc in TDK is practically through him being Batman, which gave Dent and even Gordon, more time to have an emotional arc. It worked brilliantly, of course.

I don't know, I just feel Nolan's priorities were not in check for TDKR, at least when it comes to "the people". Teasing the whole 99% vs 1% in the first act made it even worse. It's been said before, but even BB Gotham felt a lot more alive, when it came to the common folk.

Throw stones, but I'd rather Bruce die at the end, with no "Robin" John Blake character "rising", if it meant we'd get more of a Gotham voice, beyond the orphans.

 

[BatLobster]

Christian Bale's portrayal of Bruce Wayne> any side characters.

 

[JackWhite]

Christian Bale's portrayal of Bruce Wayne> any side characters.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Bruce's whole arc in TDK is practically through him being Batman, which gave Dent and even Gordon, more time to have an emotional arc. It worked brilliantly, of course.

That's essentially what I meant though. Nothing was really new in the development of Bruce Wayne in The Dark Knight that we hadn't seen in Batman Begins. Bruce, at TDK's stage, is still trying to build up the symbol, something he started with in BB and so there was nothing new with that part of the development, so time was given to Dent mostly and then a little for Gordon who finally becomes Commissioner. TDKR finally returned back to Bruce Wayne as Nolan wanted to end his arc.

I don't know, I just feel Nolan's priorities were not in check for TDKR, at least when it comes to "the people". Teasing the whole 99% vs 1% in the first act made it even worse. It's been said before, but even BB Gotham felt a lot more alive, when it came to the common folk.

I felt the teasing, if you want to call it that, was just enough since Bane's plan was never to really have 99% vs the 1% when his entire place was to just have this false idea of a 99% vs 1% ideal. Bane got the poor and the criminals on his side, but it was all just a front from the beginning.

And debatable to say BB's Gotham felt more alive. I mean, TDKR spent some time on the side characters on their views, but focusing on the orphans more was a nice touch seeing as how Bruce was an orphan himself and this building structure in Nolan's trilogy of how children always saw the best of Batman.

Throw stones, but I'd rather Bruce die at the end, with no "Robin" John Blake character "rising", if it meant we'd get more of a Gotham voice, beyond the orphans.

Lol, Blake is definitely a touchy subject if you didn't like him, but I certainly did. I love the idea that Blake is going to take up the mantle, and either train and become just like Bruce's version, or become a more detective-y Batman.

 

[JackWhite]

lol, I could never see Blake pulling off the sonar stuff from TDK.

But yeah, I loved the scene with Bruce/Talia/Selina at the charity ball. Bruce talking about everything going to the big fat spread. Just Bale's confident, game face, delivery was awesome. I especially liked the little social commentary when Selina says "You think this can last?" and they pan back to the rich folk breaking lobster tails while laughing. Even Bruce's line about her "assuming a little too much", yeah that scene delivered.

 

[BatLobster]

Hahahaha, about 50 dozen captions simultaneously pop into my head with that photo.

 

[Anno_Domini]

lol, I could never see Blake pulling off the sonar stuff from TDK.

Well realistically, the sonar stuff will never be used again since it was destroyed by Lucius

I just feel that Blake's Batman will be more detective-y unless he finds out that Lucius helped out Batman(although, by the film's end, you'd think Wayne Enterprises could go out of business), because Batman's super computer is in the Batcave and Blake's arc in TDKR led him to become a detective for a while. The ending to TDKR is definitely left to the imagination for sure. I mean...

will the League of Shadows ever return with a brand new leader to destroy Gotham?

will Gordon ever turn on the bat signal when Gotham City is led to believe Batman is dead? How will that effect Blake's version?

will Wayne Enterprises go bankrupt because of how their clean energy project turned into a bomb and one of their defense projects was used by Batman during his death?

will Selina's friend Jen become a villain now that she embraced the "storm"?

will Joker and Blake run into eachother?

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

will the League of Shadows ever return with a brand new leader to destroy Gotham?

Not to destroy Gotham (yet), but since Batman is revealed not to be dead (since Blake returns as Batman), the LOS want to confirm if it's Bruce Wayne or not; in order to exact justice/revenge for Talia/Bane's deaths. They send in someone to go undercover, posing as an orphan in the mansion; 15 year old Damian Wayne, who was born prematurely at 4.5 months during Gotham's occupation and kept in NICU, raised by the league (Lady Shiva, who is in charge) to be an heir after Talia. His first mission is to confirm if Batman is Bruce Wayne or not, and kill him if he is. Epic flashbacks to Lady Shiva training Damian (and Cassandra, her daughter) very unconventional ways.

yeahhhh

will Gordon ever turn on the bat signal when Gotham City is led to believe Batman is dead? How will that effect Blake's version?

Yes. Because Blake becomes Batman. Thus why Bruce repaired the signal. Batman is elevated to this Christ-like, everlasting symbol not only through his sacrifice, but through his resurrection.

will Wayne Enterprises go bankrupt because of how their clean energy project turned into a bomb and one of their defense projects was used by Batman during his death?

Fox files for fraud on the trades, gets the money back, and makes smart investments, with no Bruce Wayne to tell him to invest in energy projects that they have to mothball.

will Selina's friend Jen become a villain now that she embraced the "storm"?

Not anymore than the hundreds of others who embraced the 'storm'.

will Joker and Blake run into eachother?

Perhaps it's ambiguous whether it's the real Joker (re-cast) or simply another person, inspired by the Joker, who wears the white face paint and calls himself the Joker. With no real true identity, is the Joker not just another mask; a mantle to be passed on?

 

[Anno_Domini]

I wasn't asking for fanfic reasons, lol. Just rhetorical questions on how TDKR leaves things open for the imagination.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I wasn't asking for fanfic reasons, lol. Just rhetorical questions on how TDKR leaves things open for the imagination.

Oh I know.

Any excuse to fanfic

 

[ThePhantasm]

Spoiler

I'm actually shocked no one has an avvy of this

 

[RAINMAKER]

Lol, Blake is definitely a touchy subject if you didn't like him, but I certainly did. I love the idea that Blake is going to take up the mantle, and either train and become just like Bruce's version, or become a more detective-y Batman.

He'd die the first night if he took your second option. I would've liked Blake better if he had some sort of background in self defense or martial arts. But I didn't see much to convince me that Blake wouldn't die the first night as "Batman". I think he'd end up like Brian. Overall, his character was really annoying and I cringed when the lady said "Robin".

 

[Anno_Domini]

What makes him die the first night if he's a more detective-y Batman?

 

[BatLobster]

And who says he'd go out a single night until he had thoroughly trained for it?

Bruce's first night as Batman wasn't until he was 29. Blake is a rookie cop, early 20s at the most..he has plenty of time to grow into the role.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I see it this way:

Blake finds the Batcave but knows that he can't don the suit with the shape he's in, so he travels and finds a place to train. Becomes stronger, becomes faster, and then has his first night as the new Batman. Then and only then. To have the imagination that Blake just finds the suit and puts it on is showing little imagination.