Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny

[MasterBoss]

To be fair, he could just be playing a German whose an ally to Indiana Jones. Has he had a German ally before? lol

You don't cast Kretschmann if he's not playing a Nazi lol.

 

[DarkKnight88]

I'd find it funny if Kretschmann is actually playing a good guy but crotchety old Indy can't stand him anyway on principle just because he's German. He let Elsa get the better of him, never again after that.

That would be great! Indy's one German friend who he hates.

 

[Schlosser85]

You don't cast Kretschmann if he's not playing a Nazi lol.

He wasn't a Nazi in Wanted.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Wanted wasn't the fifth film in a series that's famous for having nazis as the antagonists.

 

[Drizzle]

You don't cast Kretschmann if he's not playing a Nazi lol.

Casting directors always ask him if he can play a Nazi, but never ask him if he wants to play a Nazi.

He wasn't a Nazi in Wanted.

Same for King Kong and Westworld. I guess it's a lot of jumping to conclusions because of his roles in The Pianist (where he played a German soldier who was actually a good man), Valkyrie, and the MCU (Strucker technically isn't a Nazi but Hydra is too similar so I'll allow it for the sake of argument).

 

[Schlosser85]

Casting directors always ask him if he can play a Nazi, but never ask him if he wants to play a Nazi.


Same for King Kong and Westworld. I guess it's a lot of jumping to conclusions because of his roles in The Pianist (where he played a German soldier who was actually a good man), Valkyrie, and the MCU (Strucker technically isn't a Nazi but Hydra is too similar so I'll allow it for the sake of argument).

Yea, ironically his role as a "Nazi" soldier in The Pianist which he's arguably best-known for is actually a sympathetic character. The only sympathetic German character in the whole movie.

Re: how German actors feel about playing Nazis, I know Armin Mueller-Stahl prided himself on never having been asked to play a Nazi (actually he played the Jewish family patriarch in Avalon) but also said if he had been asked, he'd have turned it down. Also old-school German actor Hardy Kruger (who was in the Hitler Youth IRL but grew disillusioned with it) played German WWII military characters in stuff like A Bridge Too Far and War and Remembrance, but refused to play stereotypical "Nazi villain" types.

But yea, it's a bit of a disservice to Thomas Kretschmann to act like all he's ever played are Nazis.

 

[Eddie Dean]

He also plays a nazi in U571, Downfall, Greyhound, Eichmann (he was Adolf Eichmann!), In Enemy Hands, The Sinking of the Laconia, a new version of Das Boot...

 

[Doctor Jones]

To be fair, he could just be playing a German whose an ally to Indiana Jones. Has he had a German ally before? lol

Look, I'd like to speculate Mikkelson and Kretchmann are actually good Germans who want to redeem their country in helping Indy find the Ark of the Covenant instead of Mikkelson and Kretchman being bad Germans who want to find the Ark of the Covenant, but that's WAY too radical for this company. They will be villains. The most surprising thing they'll do is make Mikkelson the son of a character we already know.

It's safe but you have to admit it's a smart move because it's timely.

Indiana Jones movies aren't "timely" or "relevant". They're escapist entertainment fantasy adventure serials. I don't remember LC being influenced by Iran Contra. Those words are the type of low hanging fruit that love to get thrown around as a built in excuse to not criticize something. Oh, I'm sure those words will provide nice talking points that the actors will have to nervously address in the press rounds. But it's all in the service of recycled corporate trash.

Casting directors always ask him if he can play a Nazi, but never ask him if he wants to play a Nazi. Same for King Kong and Westworld. I guess it's a lot of jumping to conclusions because of his roles in The Pianist (where he played a German soldier who was actually a good man), Valkyrie, and the MCU (Strucker technically isn't a Nazi but Hydra is too similar so I'll allow it for the sake of argument).

Of course I'm jumping to conclusions. I know they're Neo Nazis. Have we not learned anything by all the SW movies in the past six years? All of this is so familiar. Nominally pleasing actors to make it seem promising. A seemingly fitting director. I'm not expecting an outright disaster, but this will be more like TFA. It will be a well made, feel good movie that reminds you of something you loved, but it will be very generic. With Kennedy and Disney, it's stupid math. Add it up.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I REALLY hope we're not going back to the Nazi well. Though I suppose it could work if it's in Argentina or something like that. Maybe looking for Inca gold?

 

[Schlosser85]

I REALLY hope we're not going back to the Nazi well. Though I suppose it could work if it's in Argentina or something like that. Maybe looking for Inca gold?

I'd much rather Mads Mikkelsen (who isn't German in the first place, not that that stops Hollywood) is some kind of Belloq type freelance mercenary character. Or even better, not a villain at all, but that's unlikely.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I'd much rather Mads Mikkelsen (who isn't German in the first place, not that that stops Hollywood) is some kind of Belloq type freelance mercenary character. Or even better, not a villain at all, but that's unlikely.

Mads is SO GOOD when he gets to avoid the villain typecast. Not that he's a bad villain, but casting a "villain actor" as a villain always runs the risk of phoning it in, which is how we got Kaecilius.

 

[Schlosser85]

Mads is SO GOOD when he gets to avoid the villain typecast. Not that he's a bad villain, but casting a "villain actor" as a villain always runs the risk of phoning it in, which is how we got Kaecilius.

Right. Mads is fantastic on Hannibal, but that's a nice meaty role he can really sink his teeth into. When he's cast as something like Kaecilius he kind of just goes through the motions. Which I can't really blame him, because it's a pretty nothing part and probably not that interesting to him, plus he probably gets a bit bored with the villain typecasting thing.

Hollywood has a weird and unimaginative thing with typecasting. It has it stuck in its head that Hugo Weaving, Mads Mikkelsen, and Guy Pearce (as examples) must always be villains, while in their native countries they play a variety of characters.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I REALLY hope we're not going back to the Nazi well. Though I suppose it could work if it's in Argentina or something like that. Maybe looking for Inca gold?

Argentina just doubles down on the Nazi trap. We've already gone to South America. This franchise is so much better than this. Give us something new. I know for Lucasfilm that's like asking for a cure to cancer at this point, but for God's sake. Each Indy movie is like its own flavor of ice cream. I have a feeling it's gonna taste like the old Raiders flavor they've had in the freezer since 1981.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

I've nothing against seeing Indy thump some more Nazis.

But like in Last Crusade, I hope there's something more meaty to it. LC wasn't about him fighting Nazis, it was about his relationship with his father. V can do the same thing, using the Nazis as the obstacle, but the story is really about his mortality or something.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I just think you can do the same thing in regards to a deeper story yet still do something new to hang its hat on. LC brought back the Nazis which was just dandy. They did what they needed to do even if I would have preferred they were someone different, but it put the stakes into perspective. Doesn't mean it excuses a third time. You can't have the same bad guys three out of the five movies. It really dilutes the whole serialized aspect. I guess like the SW movies in that they always fight an Empire in a large galaxy, all that Indy comes across in his many adventures over decades is Nazis. It's boring and creatively conservative which is a continued pattern for Lucasfilm.

Remember all those years of speculation of what was going to happen for TFA? Then we ended up being the same movie as ANH? Yeah, it's the same Lucasfilm. They haven't changed. Can we start now by drawing the line in the sand and calling this crap out for what it is before we rationalize it?

 

[DarkKnight88]

But J.J. Abrams was already known as somebody who liked to emulate his heroes. Super 8 was his tribute to Amblin films. TFA was his tribute to the Original Star Wars trilogy.

James Mangold just doesn't strike me as that. And he seems like he'd walk if he was bullied into something he didn't want to do.

And not that Harrison Ford hasn't made his share of bad movies, I just can't see him being bullied into something that's a retread either. The only reason he came back for TFA was for his payoff of the son relationship and Han's death.

I could be wrong, but I just can't see these two strong personalities collaborating for just a Raiders retread.

 

[Doctor Jones]

But J.J. Abrams was already known as somebody who liked to emulate his heroes. Super 8 was his tribute to Amblin films. TFA was his tribute to the Original Star Wars trilogy.

Again, James Mangold just doesn't strike me as that. And not that Harrison Ford hasn't made his fair of bad movies, I just can't see him being bullied into something that's a retread either. The only reason he came back for TFA was for his payoff of the son relationship and his death. I could be wrong, but I just can't see these two collaborating for just a Raiders retread.

Mangold is definitely a much better director than Abrams. But so was Rian Johnson and he ended up making a movie that reinforced the old status quo and was an exercise in gradualism. God, Jon Favreau is a talented guy, but he's just making a show about a Mandalorian where shocking moments hinge on old, familiar things showing up like Luke Skywalker. I think there's a pattern here. Kennedy is the boss. And she likes things that we know.

I think she hired the guy who did Logan because she wants that story. Which isn't necessarily a bad approach, but see what I mean? My point is Kennedy's decisions come from a place that's very shortsighted and limited creatively. I don't think she has a vision, she just sees the most obvious thing in the moment and sees the hottest director to choose from. And it's gotten mostly negative results. I think at the end of the day, if it's not a simple Raiders retread, it will be something very bland and generic based on a feeling of the past. And Mangold, God bless him, will probably make a competent version of it. This is a new era and franchises are made differently now.

As for Ford, well, he wants to get this thing made. I'm sure he cares about making a good movie, but this is the guy who talked up aliens in KOTCS, an idea he was against. I'm sure he'll justify whatever they have for him at the end of the day.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I wouldn’t remotely say that The Last Jedi reinforced the status quo. Love it or hate it, I think that film very much railed against the OT remake aspect that TFA set up. You just have to look at the vitriolic reaction it got from the fandom.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Argentina just doubles down on the Nazi trap. We've already gone to South America. This franchise is so much better than this. Give us something new. I know for Lucasfilm that's like asking for a cure to cancer at this point, but for God's sake. Each Indy movie is like its own flavor of ice cream. I have a feeling it's gonna taste like the old Raiders flavor they've had in the freezer since 1981.

Oh, I agree, I definitely don't want the Nazis as the Big Bad again. If I had my way, it would be the British Museum. I was just thinking of ways they can try and breathe new life into it if the typecasts prove prophetic.

And Argentina offers a lot more than what we saw of South America in KOTCS. Sure, you've got rainforests, but also grasslands, arctic glaciers and mountains - which would be where most of the action takes place, if we're dealing w/Inca gold.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Oh, I agree, I definitely don't want the Nazis as the Big Bad again. If I had my way, it would be the British Museum. I was just thinking of ways they can try and breathe new life into it if the typecasts prove prophetic.

And Argentina offers a lot more than what we saw of South America in KOTCS. Sure, you've got rainforests, but also grasslands, arctic glaciers and mountains - which would be where most of the action takes place, if we're dealing w/Inca gold.

I don't think it's usually good to breathe fresh life into something we've seen before as a new story. Once or twice it's okay. But Lucasfilm makes it their perogative. To me Argentinia is just another example. It's like using Tatooine again, only now there are underground caves to explore. Their idea of new stories is just to moderately expand on things we already know at best and it's excused as a new story. Why not see all those things you state in a completely different place? Why not the Arctic? Why not northern Europe? Russia? There are so many places we haven't been to yet, and they'll settle on a bland jungle.

Inca gold, Argentina, all of this is so generally like a safer KOTCS. And when you put Nazis in it, it all just feels like been there done that. It just reminds me of TFA. If it doesn't take place in a desert, Argentina is probably going to be the place.

 

[Gothamsknight]

The team writing/directing this movie is of extremely high caliber so I remain optimistic that this will be special. If people didn't like the ST, I can understand the hesitancy to get excited, but for me, I don't see how this doesn't turn out at least awesome. I'm just curious as to what the plot will be.

 

[Doctor Jones]

At this point, if you've been satisfied with what Lucasfilm has done, you'll probably like this movie. As for me I am not in that camp. I'm not sitting around hoping next time they'll get it right. I'll believe it when I see it if I'm proven otherwise. For now I'm taking things at face value because Lucasfilm is face value creatively. If you're hoping for Atlantis, don't hold your breath. You're overthinking it.

Remember when we all speculated of all the wild things that could happen with Episode 7? Look how that turned out. They made the same movie.

 

[Stringer]

Given that this is Disney, Hollywood having no idea how to utilize a talent like Mads, a clear indication that Nazi's will be the villains, I'm fully expecting this to be the safest (therefore lukewarm) sequel since Thor 2.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I guess we shall see what happens. I'm still excited.

Btw, I'm someone that really enjoyed TFA and TLJ but have soured a bit on the ST as a whole.

 

[Doctor Jones]

If you're still excited, I can't take that away from you, but with all due respect, I struggle to understand that. Shouldn't that raise red flags? You ended up souring on a franchise and you're excited for a revival of a franchise the same studio who was responsible for those feelings? Why?

I don't think it's a real mystery here to imagine they'll do a similar thing. Again, I'm not predicting ROS disaster, but more like TFA. Something solid but very safe that loses favorability over time due to the generic and uncreative nature of it.