Lord of the Advice: Fellowship of the Relationship

[Erzengel]

Age probably was the detrimental factor in his relationship. This was probably her first real relationship seeing as she was 18 when it began.

But regardless of why they broke up, during that time, she was still talking to him, she was sleeping with someone else, which she said happened once when she was drunk but I'm willing to bet money it was quite a few times and sober.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Age probably was the detrimental factor in his relationship. This was probably her first real relationship seeing as she was 18 when it began.

But regardless of why they broke up, during that time, she was still talking to him, she was sleeping with someone else, which she said happened once when she was drunk but I'm willing to bet money it was quite a few times and sober.

and here is the crux of the matter, of why i think you guys are giving him bad advice, you are taking an incident and making it out to be something else entirely through your speculation.

From what I understand this is what happened...

....she stops having sex with him, and tells him he is being a bit of a sex maniac(his words), and he is being selfish in the sack.

...they break up later.

...she sleeps with a co-worker after they have broken up, once, and when she was drunk.

and I'm saying that is undertsandable, and forgiveable, as she was probably feeling a bit put out when it came to the world of sex, but, it speaks very well of their emotional connection, if she wants to get back with him and work on what was wrong in the relationship, and to me, that's all that sounds like was wrong, the mechanics of the sex, him just having to learn to give more rather than take.

She wasn't cheating, there's no reason to think she was, apart from folk speculating.

 

[Erzengel]

There are consequences for someone's actions, Bum.

And it's probably a little naive to believe that it happened once and that's all. You don't spend a weekend with a co-worker. Yes a weekend and only get down once. I mean who spends a weekend with a co-worker when there isn't intimacy involved.

Not many people would take someone back after they've been with someone else, even if they weren't in a committed relationship at the time.

I know this girl who was with this guy for like 8-9 years. Towards the end of the relationship, he began to cheat on her. She kept taking him back even found out he bought her a ring.

When they came back from a vacation, when she said everything was great again, he began to have doubts again.

Even though they broke up, she continued to pine for him.

Until she met someone else with whom she is now smitten with this new guy and is better off.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

That might be applicable to this situation, and it might not be, I just want to address some aspects of the situation that seemed to be ignored right after they were brought up.

and yes, there are consequences for your actions, if she had told him there was a problem with him being selfish in the sack and he didn't try to do anything about that, then the consequence of him not trying to fix that problem was her cutting out the sex, and eventually leaving him, and sleeping with someone else.
I mean, it's not like it is a long distance relationship and they are having sex by astral projection is it, and he doesn't have her there to respond to. If you are right there with the person physically, that aspect wouldn't be a problem unless you didn't try.

also, I don't see why she would lie about sleeping with the co-worker just the once, she was honest about spending a weekend with him, if she was gonna lie about the amount of times she slept with him, why not just lie about the fact they spent a weekend together and just say they spent one night together.
It sounds totally believable to me that she didn't quite know what she was doing, and didn't capitulate to having sex with him until she was drunk.

anyway, I just wanted to say my piece on that, he can take the advice or ignore it. but, it might be relevant, so should be said.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

It sounds to me like he obviously *does* want to be with her, but has taken the wrong advice from this thread.
I'm just pointing out a pertinant aspect that was raised that seems to have been completely ignored.

Most people here advised him not to take her back, *because* she stopped having sex with him before she ended the relationship, and I'm saying that it sounds like she had a good reason for putting a hiatus on the sex.
and given that she is what, 22? and has been with him for 4 years, it sounds liek she was wondering what sex with someone else might be like, if she was missing out of something because he was being selfish in the sack, so she slept with someone else *after* they broke up, *and* she was drunk, so it is understandable.
So, now, it seems like she doesn't want to lose the emotional connection they had and wants to try to make the relatiosnhip right, and from the sounds of it, the sex just has to be worked on, they don't have any other problems.

I mean, I was reading all the advice you guys were giving him when i was probo-banned and was frustrated i couldn't say this to the guy before he broke up with her.
I didn't say anything more afterwrads because it seemed a done deal, it was over, but he keeps bringing her up, he seems miserable, and I think he owes to to himself, and to her, to meet up and talk about what exactly went wrong, because if it is just the actual sex, then that is totally solvable, it's not like she was out cheating on him or something and can't be trusted. Which is the general sense I got that people were trying to make her out as, as someone who would eventually leave him and break his heart, when that might not be the case at all. I see no evidence that has been raised to suggest that anyway.

Re-read that and you will realize you just justified her actions by calling him sexually inadequate.

I stopped having sex with my wife before our divorce, and when we seperated I was instantly having sex with more women. Can I justify that with calling her sexually inadequate?

Just pointing our the double standard.

The reason he is hurting is because he has not yet moved on to make himself happy and live well without her. She represented the IDEA of what he though everything that was happy in his life was.

I stand by our earlier advice. He needs to move on, and keep looking forward, and to keep in mind that there will be other women in the future.

He did not lose the last decent girl he was ever going to get.
The only way that prophecy happens is if he believes it, and I call that self-defeat.

Other fish in the sea as they say. Now he just needs to build a healthier more confident boat and get back in the ocean.

 

[Erzengel]

Well here my story. Me and my gf has been together for almost 4 years. We have seriously talked about settling down and getting married. These last 3-4 months we started to get alot of problems. We became distant. We saw less of each other. didn't spend time for Christmas and new years. And she even forgot to plan for my birthday in January. I notice she started to hang out with her go worker alot. Going to his house to hang out and party. I confronted her about it and she said there just friends. So than I decided to talk about out issues. She responded by breaking up with me.

What really Burns me is that couple of months before we broke up she decided that she doesn't want to have sex anymore and I respected that. But than she sleeps with her Co worker on the first date

She said it was more of religious reasons and plus the fact that I'm a sex maniac!lol it was more of her saying she wanted romance than just pain old classic sex! like I said we were distant

Nowhere did he say that she said he was being selfish in the sack.

This is all about reading in between the lines.

They were together.

She starts getting friendly with a co-worker.

Things start not working out in their relationship.

They stop having sex.

They break up.

She has sex with the other guy.

Again, why should he give her another chance? She met someone else and decide to slowly torpedo their relationship so she could try things out with the co-worker.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Re-read that and you will realize you just justified her actions by calling him sexually inadequate.

Nope, re-read my posts again and see that I am saying he was *being* sexually inadequete, I'm not saying he *is*, I'm saying that he would be capable of being adequete if he stopped being so selfish and put some effort in.

I have spent the night with some women when full on sex was not on the table, whether it was because I did not have protection, they were not ready to go there with me yet, or because I did not want to have full on sex with them because I knew they would have wnated a relationship afterwards and I didn't. So I would spend hours on foreplay when full on sex was not on the table, they enjoyed it and so did I, so I'm saying this to him, take your time and savour it, don't just bang away, haha, that is what she will be looking for.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Nowhere did he say that she said he was being selfish in the sack.

those were not his exact words, but he did speak in those terms, he said that she said he was being a sex maniac(those were his exact words in that case though), and that he was not spending enough time on her, hell, when someone spoke to him about this, he laughed about it and said he should probably work on that.

This is all about reading in between the lines

Yeah, and what I am saying is that reading between the lines is very dangerous when it comes to things like this, your speculation can be repeated so much that it starts to sound like the facts, when they may very well not be, and that could lead to him taking bad advice because that speculation may very well prove to be wrong.

So i am offering an alternative based on the info that has been presented.

 

[Erzengel]

So...when you speculate that he was selfish in the sack that's okay and when I speculate that the writing was on the wall it's dangerous?

I personally wouldn't take someone back because of an indiscretion. A lot of people wouldn't. A few would.

Am I saying that things CAN never work out between them? No, because nothing is absolute. Maybe in a few years when he's 30 and she's 26? Maybe she would grow up.

But for right now, I think it's perfectly fine that he doesn't "crawl" back to her and try and work things out.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

So...when you speculate that he was selfish in the sack that's okay and when I speculate that the writing was on the wall it's dangerous?

No, as I said, I am not speculating, I am going by what *he* said in the thread, he said in reply to someone that he should probably work on that aspect of the relationship, and that she had said as much to him.
I distinctly remember this because it felt like the crux of the matter as to why she had stopped having sex with him before the break up, whereas you guys where the ones who hit out with the speculation on hearing of the sex hiatus, saying she was probably cheating on him with someone else, and that was why she stopped having sex with him.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Ok, this is what I was referring to, this exchange...

from page 9 of the thread...

why did you think she didn't want to have sex with you anymore?

She said it was more of religious reasons and plus the fact that I'm a sex maniac!lol it was more of her saying she wanted romance than just pain old classic sex! like I said we were distant

and from page 10...

But romance and sex shouldn't be seperate in a relationship. I mean, I can understand saying she wanted to have sex less if you were into doing it all the time and it had lost it's 'specialness' for her (as in there was no effort to woo her before sex ).

unfortunately this part is true. Need to be more sensitive with other needs lol lesson learned

Ok, maybe I picked him up wrong when he was talking about 'other needs', so I don't know if he was talking about sexual needs, or romantic needs, but it does sound like she stopped having sex because there was at least a romantic/loving feeling that was missing on the physical side.


Dude, I'm sorry if I offended you, or picked you up wrong, I am just trying to help you, I am worried that you might have been throwing something away that might have been special.

I am just trying to say that this must have been the crux of the problem, and I do not think she was cheating on you, what has happened here is that everyone assumed she was cheating on you when you said that she stopped having sex with you(that is all they are saying over the course of pages 9 onwards), and ignored these points for the most part. and then you started to think they were right, and didn't take her back, when i actually think they were wrong in that assumption.

 

[L.A.]

Ok I remember the last month in out relationship she drive all the way to that guys house in Pasadena. She text me that she was there but when I called and text there was no freaking reply. I like to add that in our 4 year relationship not once did she ever drive to my house. She don't luke driving period. Its clear she had feelings for the guy and wanted to be with him. Its ask clear now she was positioning her self to leave me for him. But her plan back fired and she got played. That was karma. No way will I ever take her back. When I needed her the most at the lowest point of my life she tuned out and found another man. I forgot to add I was distant because my mother was ill in the hospital to the point where she might be in a nursing home. Did she even call comfort me about that. Nope. She stop loving me long ago before she slept with him

 

[Erzengel]

I am just trying to say that this must have been the crux of the problem, and I do not think she was cheating on you, what has happened here is that everyone assumed she was cheating on you when you said that she stopped having sex with you(that is all they are saying over the course of pages 9 onwards), and ignored these points for the most part. and then you started to think they were right, and didn't take her back, when i actually think they were wrong in that assumption.

That would mean he would have to take her at her word that it all happened after they broke up, even though she lied for a while that nothing was going on in between them.

So when is he suppose to believe her?

 

[The Guard]

It sounds like she's making utilizing double standards, making excuses, lying, and just generally not going about things in the most mature way.

And yeah, she's young...but she's not that young. Personally, if I was him, I wouldn't want to be with her over the communications issues, nevermind the cheating.

 

[Anita18]

Have no feelings or emotions.

Yup, such a badass.

Theres's a certain truth to it.

I mean sure, if you've only been dating the girl a few months, it's best to just forget about her. You haven't invested that much yet.

But say, if my bf cheated on me, after 3 years and a ring and a promise to marry me, then yeah, that'd hurt. At this point, I'd try to talk things out and give it another chance after a serious sit-down.

Depends on how compatible you are with other people though. SuperMike could find all kinds of girls to want to be with, but I'm picky as all get out and would take probably 6 more years before finding someone else.

Hell, I think my bf is more screwed in such a scenario since he's even pickier than me.

I was on a probo-ban when you came in here for advice, and i think you were wrong to not to give her another chance.

You said that she said to you that you were being a bit of a sex maniac, and were being quite selfish with not pleasuring her, and that is obviously why she wanted to cut out the sex.
so, after that, you broke up, and she ended up trying out sex with someone else when she was drunk, and that didn't work out, so she wanted to get back with you, because there was obviously an emotional connection between you she didn't want to lose.

Now, she was quite young, so i guess you have been her only sexual partner, is it any wonder she was curious about being with someone else once you broke up?

Get her number, phone her up, get back with her, and sort out things in the sack, learn how to be a better lover and things could work out.
You are obviously miserable and want to get back to her, I don't think you have been following the right advice in this thread, the pertinant points where not responded to.

edit: I mean, when you think about it, it's her who is giving you another chance, another chance to learn how to be less selfish in the sack.

I think you missed the part where they'd broken up and gotten back together repeatedly for the past 4 years.

It's one thing to have a breakup happen for the very first time. My coworker is trying to win back his gf, whom he dated for 9 years before breaking up. That's one thing.

A cycle of it obviously shows there's not a whole lot of commitment there. If it's been happening on a regular basis for the past 4 years, I guarantee you that it will happen for another 4. Or another 10. Or until somebody wises up and realizes they don't want to be breaking up with the same person and taking them back over and over again 10 years from now. What kind of life can you have together like that? You can't plan ahead, you can't live together, can you even adopt a dog together like that?

And if someone's not doing it for you in the sack, you either break up with them or you talk to them. You just don't "stop having sex." Even when the sex is bad but you still like the guy, you keeping trying. You stop having sex when you're not longer invested in the relationship but don't have the guts to break it off.

 

[Anubis]

No.

Too many guys get ******** when a girl does something to them, like cheating. Often around here we get ******** guys who wanted to get with a girl who "strung them along", and didn't really want to be with him in a relationship.

Then they guy wants some some sort of social revenge by talking to everybody about what the girl did to them. This only leads to painful fail.

If your heart is truly consumed with the need for revenge, because you were really deeply hurt, you STILL need to let go of the hostility and move on with your life and go make yourself happy.

"Living well is the best revenge" - George Herbert

Its not about actively trying to ignore them.

It is about getting on with your life and making yourself happy.



Wow, an obvious strawman followed by Ad hominem.

Thats being rude in concise form with no extra filling. You should be proud of yourself.

I don't know man. Sounds like lying to yourself. Either you don't care or you do. You can't just decide to not care. I agree, living well is the best revenge, but at the same time, there's still a grieving process. Guy was in a relationship with this b***h for 4 years. You can't just will feelings to just go away. You'd have to be Alan f**king Scott to do that s**t.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

And if someone's not doing it for you in the sack, you either break up with them or you talk to them. You just don't "stop having sex." Even when the sex is bad but you still like the guy, you keeping trying. You stop having sex when you're not longer invested in the relationship but don't have the guts to break it off.

Well, she did talk to him about it, and it sounded like he didn't really take it onboard, so she stopped having sex with him because he wasn't trying to be more romantic or whatever, and then she broke up with him.

Anyway, from what he's said now, it sounds like she was hovering about that other guy, and planning on trying to start something up with him, and from what he was saying, that sounds probable, but my point remains, if they had sorted out whatever the 'romance' problem was, maybe she wouldn't have emotionally cheated on him before breaking up with him.

He also said that he thinks she was 'played' by this other guy, I guess he means in terms of him only being interested in her for a one night stand or whatever, and that's why she wants back with him.
I didn't know that, I thought she had decided not to pursue the relationship with the co-worker, so that puts a different spin on her wanting to get back together.
edit: Maybe I am a romantic fool, but I thought she had maybe realised she had something special with him, after fooling around with the co-worker felt meaningless, and that was why she wanted him back, and to work on bringing the romance into the relationship.

 

[Anita18]

Well, she did talk to him about it, and it sounded like he didn't really take it onboard, so she stopped having sex with him because he wasn't trying to be more romantic or whatever, and then she broke up with him.

Anyway, from what he's said now, it sounds like she was hovering about that other guy, and planning on trying to start something up with him, and from he was saying, that sounds probable, but my point remains, if they had sorted out whatever the 'romance' problem was, maybe she wouldn't have emotionally cheated on him before breaking up with him.

He also said that he thinks she was 'played' by this other guy, I guess he means in terms of him only being interested in her for a one night stand or whatever, and that's why she wants back with him.
I didn't know that, I thought she had decided not to pursue the relationship with the co-worker, so that puts a different spin on her wanting to get back together.
edit: Maybe I am a romantic fool, but I thought she had maybe realised she had something special with him, after fooling around with the co-worker felt meaningless, and that was why she wanted him back, and to work on bringing the romance into the relationship.

You still missed the part about them breaking up and getting back together again repeatedly for 4 years.

I dunno, that doesn't spell commitment to me for some reason....

And sure, I'm kind of a romantic fool as well, but at some point you have to be practical and acknowledge that the relationship simply isn't going anywhere or working out, even if you still care about the other person. When I broke up with my first bf (whom I dated for 1.5 years), my friend suggested just taking a break, but I wanted it to be over. I knew we were going to have the same problems if we got back together, because we just weren't compatible.

L.A. has not mentioned anything about compatibility, only that they were on and off for 4 years. Maybe he simply isn't compatible with her and is only prolonging the suffering for both of them if they keep getting back together.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

You still missed the part about them breaking up and getting back together again repeatedly for 4 years.

I dunno, that doesn't spell commitment to me for some reason....

He hasn't said what happened there, and I don't know, maybe there are couples out there who are happily married who broke up a few years over the years, so I'm not gonna label their relationship one way or another.
I am looking at the facts presented on why they broke up that final time, and trying to figure out what actually happened, when you figure that out, perhaps that can clue you into why they broke up before as well.

 

[Erzengel]

L.A. is doing the right thing right now. Don't text her back. Why? She's probably want some sort of peace of mind that everything is okay, or please don't hate me, etc. He doesn't need to give her any of that.

 

[Anubis]

She needs to understand that there are consequences for her actions, and that when you do terrible things, people will hate you for it.

 

[Anita18]

He hasn't said what happened there, and I don't know, maybe there are couples out there who are happily married who broke up a few years over the years, so I'm not gonna label their relationship one way or another.
I am looking at the facts presented on why they broke up that final time, and trying to figure out what actually happened, when you figure that out, perhaps that can clue you into why they broke up before as well.

I can see it happening once. I know a couple like that, actually. Happily married for three years now but they took a VERY short break about 5 years in, during which the girl realized she made a big mistake (dated someone else for a very short time, didn't sleep with him) and he took her back. He didn't hold it against her and it wasn't a cyclical thing. They got back together, lived together for 3 years before tying the knot. So the break-up was really just a blip in their otherwise very faithful and committed relationship. In fact, nobody even mentions it anymore.

But for it to be a repeated thing is way different. In fact, I think the only thing that made this time final is that she admitted she slept with her coworker while they were broken up. So yeah, they were "broken up" when it happened, but he apparently believed that they'd get back together as usual. The fact that she spent a weekend with her coworker like a gf would, says that she's no longer invested in the relationship. She made a decision NOT to be invested in the relationship, and her trying to take him back is IMO only because she doesn't want to be single. But she'll continue the cycle again if he lets her.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

Well, she did talk to him about it, and it sounded like he didn't really take it onboard, so she stopped having sex with him because he wasn't trying to be more romantic or whatever, and then she broke up with him.

You're also basing the no sex thing purely on romance and ignoring that LA also mentioned religous reasons and if she's having sex with someone else so quickly that's obviously bs. Which lends more evidence to her cheating before the breakup.

Anyway, from what he's said now, it sounds like she was hovering about that other guy, and planning on trying to start something up with him, and from what he was saying, that sounds probable, but my point remains, if they had sorted out whatever the 'romance' problem was, maybe she wouldn't have emotionally cheated on him before breaking up with him.

He also said that he thinks she was 'played' by this other guy, I guess he means in terms of him only being interested in her for a one night stand or whatever, and that's why she wants back with him.
I didn't know that, I thought she had decided not to pursue the relationship with the co-worker, so that puts a different spin on her wanting to get back together.
edit: Maybe I am a romantic fool, but I thought she had maybe realised she had something special with him, after fooling around with the co-worker felt meaningless, and that was why she wanted him back, and to work on bringing the romance into the relationship.

What happens the next time she's feeling adventurous and wanted romance outside the relationship though. She breaks up again to have some meaningless sex, then comes groveling back when she's gotten it out of her system.

LA made the right decision.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Wow, an obvious strawman followed by Ad hominem.

Thats being rude in concise form with no extra filling. You should be proud of yourself.

Okay, well then the substance:

You talk about not letting a girl get to you, and all of that, but quite frankly if you are with a girl that long and have developed that strong of a relationship, what she did should get to you.

Where I agree with you is that he shouldn't be going out of his way to go and insult her, because that just lowers you to her level of wrongdoing, but to just pretend like she never existed, and to show no emotions about her whatsoever is not healthy. You're just bottling **** up inside, and if you're going to be so void of expressing any emotions what so ever, then I don't see how one like that could ever had a successful intimate relationship when your half of it is completely built on not expressing emotion about her whether she do wrong or right, and going off of advice you've given in here before, never being the one to open up to her, and playing little games to make her become the vulnerable one to you constantly.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

I don't know man. Sounds like lying to yourself. Either you don't care or you do. You can't just decide to not care. I agree, living well is the best revenge, but at the same time, there's still a grieving process. Guy was in a relationship with this b***h for 4 years. You can't just will feelings to just go away. You'd have to be Alan f**king Scott to do that s**t.

You don't have to be Alan Scott to avoid calling the girl names, or behaving in a seriously bent out of shape way. You don't have to be Alan Scott to avoid going back to the girl. You also don't have to be Alan Scott to move on with your life and to realize your life is not over.

Go ahead and care if you want to, Go ahead and grieve, but don't behave ********.

It's how you handle your emotions that matters.

This means not writing the girl a 3 page essay on your undying love and a long apology for "being selfish in bed". It also means not calling the girl, not contacting her to talk about your emotions. That's a bad idea. She will have ZERO sympathy if a guy tries that. She will sound annoyed that he is bothering her. It will only dig a guy deeper into his emotional hole, make him feel rejected all over again, and make him look and feel desperate. Angry letters, texts, or phone calls are just as bad. That is not the path to recovery in any grieving process.

If he cut her out of his life then he did the right thing, and now he needs to work on himself, move himself closer to his ideal self in this time. When he is ready he can and will start something new.

Now, being that Bumwhowalks has said we all gave him bad advice, I'm curious to know what he would actually suggest he have done?

Bum, you got the floor.