The Amazing Spider-Man Marc Webb to return? - Part 1

[Mike]

I'm not sure that Gwen really counts as a particularly strong female character. She doesn't get kidnapped, sure, but the absence of what is considered a negative stereotype (although it really depends on context) doesn't really constitute a positive step. I guess you could say she's not a bad female character but I'd hesitate to call her strong when she doesn't actually overcome any difficulties or contribute anything particularly significant to the film. I'd think serviceable is a better adjective.

without gwen the whole nyc population would be lizard people. She had a purpose. She is slightly smarter than peter.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Here's basically the biggest reason why I love this Gwen character. Gwen suffers a great loss near the end of the film when she loses her father. She visits Peter to find out where he's been and is hurt even more by him not being around. After she spills herself to him he says...I'm sorry, but I just can't be with you anymore. She turns and begins to run away from him, her sadness and pain beyond comparison...but...then, she has a moment of clarity and turns back toward Peter..."He made you promise didn't he? So I'd be safe?"

It's that one line right there. That Gwen is smart enough to see why Peter can't be with her that completely saves her from being just another girl that just can't seem to understand why the guy says "I can't." Just that simple statement by her is all she needs to prove how smart and strong her character is in this film. Everything else she does simply supports this one thing from her.

 

[SpiderMarvelite]

ANYTHING is better than:
"OH PETER SAVE ME OHHH HELP ME ARGHHHHHH"

 

[LegendAssemble]

Here's basically the biggest reason why I love this Gwen character. Gwen suffers a great loss near the end of the film when she loses her father. She visits Peter to find out where he's been and is hurt even more by him not being around. After she spills herself to him he says...I'm sorry, but I just can't be with you anymore. She turns and begins to run away from him, her sadness and pain beyond comparison...but...then, she has a moment of clarity and turns back toward Peter..."He made you promise didn't he? So I'd be safe?"

It's that one line right there. That Gwen is smart enough to see why Peter can't be with her that completely saves her from being just another girl that just can't seem to understand why the guy says "I can't." Just that simple statement by her is all she needs to prove how smart and strong her character is in this film. Everything else she does simply supports this one thing from her.

Okay but how is that a good thing? This isn't a story about Gwen Stacy, we've seen enough to see she's smart and strong, that one line really took away from the tragedy of their love. In the comics Captain Stacy's death doomed Peter and Gwen because he couldn't reveal to her that he was Spider-Man as she blamed Spider-Man for his death. Then when she died he'd never get the chance to make it right. How much better would it have been if she blamed Peter for not saving her father and thought he wouldn't comfort her out of guilt and Peter was bound by his promise not to tell. Then when she dies he realizes he never got the chance to make things right? Putting confusion on his responsibilities as Spider-Man.

I honestly hate when people complain about the "ahhh help me please" in real life if anyone of you got kidnapped youd be saying the same damn thing, man or woman. It's not sexist or degrading.

 

[SpiderMarvelite]

She hit a 9-Foot Lizard on the head, she's got some lady balls.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Okay but how is that a good thing?

Because she doesn't fall into the same trap that seemingly every other damsel or leading woman seems to get stuck. It's a shame that women get written so poorly in these types of movies where they turn into unintelligent distress queens.

This isn't a story about Gwen Stacy,

Her story is important as it is an integral part of Peter's.

we've seen enough to see she's smart and strong,

Her line in this scene was the foundation for every thing else imo. Even though it came at the end.

that one line really took away from the tragedy of their love. In the comics Captain Stacy's death doomed Peter and Gwen because he couldn't reveal to her that he was Spider-Man as she blamed Spider-Man for his death. Then when she died he'd never get the chance to make it right.

How so? Peter had already revealed himself to her as Spider-man much earlier in the film so the whole story you're talking about couldn't have happened. Things change when you go from one medium to another and this is just another example of that. I mean, Capt Stacy died at the hands of Ock in the comics too, not Lizard.

How much better would it have been if she blamed Peter for not saving her father and thought he wouldn't comfort her out of guilt and Peter was bound by his promise not to tell. Then when she dies he realizes he never got the chance to make things right? Putting confusion on his responsibilities as Spider-Man.

I don't think it would be better at all. If Gwen is as smart as we've been shown she would be able to separate her emotions from her thought process and as much pain as her father's death has brought to her she would still be able to reason or listen to reason. Her going into a blind guilt finger pointing session doesn't fit her character in this series imo.

 

[LegendAssemble]

Because she doesn't fall into the same trap that seemingly every other damsel or leading woman seems to get stuck. It's a shame that women get written so poorly in these types of movies where they turn into unintelligent distress queens.

Thats what she is though, that's what her story is leading up to is being the damsel in distress. You can have a woman need help of the protagonist and have her appear strong like princess leia in the original Star Wars films.

Her story is important as it is an integral part of Peter's.

It's a part of Peter's though, her story should have the sole purpose to compliment his given he is the title character.

Her line in this scene was the foundation for every thing else imo. Even though it came at the end.

We didn't need that imo. Her staying behind to make the Lizard cure and facing Connors was extremely brave and completely out of Peters hands. Yes Peter thought he was going to save her when he told the Captain she was in the building but she had made it out fine. She didn't need his saving. IMO shows she's independent/smart and everything dunsts MJ was not.

How so? Peter had already revealed himself to her as Spider-man much earlier in the film so the whole story you're talking about couldn't have happened. Things change when you go from one medium to another and this is just another example of that. I mean, Capt Stacy died at the hands of Ock in the comics too, not Lizard.

Changing the medium doesn't have a lot to do with it. It's more about adapting the story at the core rather than being accurate. Yes Peter revealed himself but that makes it more personal. Up to this point what Gwen has seen was that Peter wasn't totally fond of her Father (whom she was already scared of losing), Peter is Spider-Man, and her Father is going to help him stop the Lizard. He then dies in action, and Peter someone who's been sneaking into her room on a regular basis for small talks is suddenly out of her life when she needs him the most. Yes it makes Gwen smarter to realize that her father made him promise but it's too easy.

Personally I think it would have been more powerful if she walked away confused, after that line was delivered. Have the tragedy be that Peter wants to tell her that her father made him promise, but knowing that by doing so just leads him one step closer to breaking said promise.

I don't think it would be better at all. If Gwen is as smart as we've been shown she would be able to separate her emotions from her thought process and as much pain as her father's death has brought to her she would still be able to reason or listen to reason. Her going into a blind guilt finger pointing session doesn't fit her character in this series imo.

Thats not intelligence that's self control. It's not a bad thing but it doesn't make her stupid not to realize it. If I go to a movie called Spider-Man I could care less about how smart Gwen Stacy is portrayed as long as she's not made into an idiot and her story is there to enhance Peters. Normally I think this excuse is BS but given this was the only subplot to be fully paid off in the film, I think the sequel will explain more about why they decided to go this way.

 

[Anno_Domini]

She hit a 9-Foot Lizard on the head, she's got some lady balls.

Then...shouldn't Raimi's Mary Jane be considered as a brave woman herself who tried to hit a dude with huge ass mechanical tentacles, then throwing a concrete brick towards Venom?

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Gwen will be a damsel in distress after being established as a strong female protagonist. MJ in Raimi's films was more cannon fodder.

 

[LegendAssemble]

Then...shouldn't Raimi's Mary Jane be considered as a brave woman herself who tried to hit a dude with huge ass mechanical tentacles, then throwing a concrete brick towards Venom?

touche

 

[LegendAssemble]

Gwen will be a damsel in distress after being established as a strong female protagonist. MJ in Raimi's films was more cannon fodder.

What was she supposed to do differently? She got kidnapped in SM1 because Goblin was going after everyone Peter cared about and he'd already attacked Aunt May. Then when she was kidnapped she was stranded atop a bridge with goblin flying around blowing everything up. In SM2 she was kidnapped because Peter told Ock about how much he cared about her before he went mad and he wanted insurance Peter would get Spider-Man. Then when she had the chance she tried to hit him with a big metal pole.

She wasn't a good depiction of MJ but she wasn't as pathetic as you're acting like she was just normal.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

What was she supposed to do differently? She got kidnapped in SM1 because Goblin was going after everyone Peter cared about and he'd already attacked Aunt May. Then when she was kidnapped she was stranded atop a bridge with goblin flying around blowing everything up. In SM2 she was kidnapped because Peter told Ock about how much he cared about her before he went mad and he wanted insurance Peter would get Spider-Man. Then when she had the chance she tried to hit him with a big metal pole.

She wasn't a good depiction of MJ but she wasn't as pathetic as you're acting like she was just normal.

No, she wasn't a good depiction (to say the least). This made her damsel in distress moments her only real defining moments in the films for me. Fodder. I don't blame Dunst, that comes down to conception (the writing and the miscasting).

 

[Mike]

Then...shouldn't Raimi's Mary Jane be considered as a brave woman herself who tried to hit a dude with huge ass mechanical tentacles, then throwing a concrete brick towards Venom?

ok but her dumbass got kidnapped in all 3 movies lol. And was blackmailed by harry. Gwen will more than likely be kidnapped once. And hopefully the real mary jane in tasm sequals wont be kidnapped.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Thats what she is though, that's what her story is leading up to is being the damsel in distress. You can have a woman need help of the protagonist and have her appear strong like princess leia in the original Star Wars films.

Well that's my point. I'm not saying Gwen won't be a "damsel in distress" at some point thru the course of these films...obviously when she's held captive by the GG (assuming they go that route) she'll definitely be one. However what sets Gwen apart from the majority of the pack is her intelligence and strength. You can still have both and be the damsel in distress unlike how most characters are written. Leia is a great example. She exhibits both strength and intelligence but she also was a "damsel in distress." She was held captive by the Empire and ended up being rescued by the main protagonist (Luke).

It's a part of Peter's though, her story should have the sole purpose to compliment his given he is the title character.

Gwen is a major character in Peter's life and her story is of great importance.

We didn't need that imo. Her staying behind to make the Lizard cure and facing Connors was extremely brave and completely out of Peters hands. Yes Peter thought he was going to save her when he told the Captain she was in the building but she had made it out fine. She didn't need his saving. IMO shows she's independent/smart and everything dunsts MJ was not.

Again, like I was saying there were plenty of actions throughout the course of the film that showed Gwen's value...her strength and intelligence and not to mention her bravery. The real idea that makes her different is that she is able to separate her emotions from her thought process and come to an understanding that many characters in similar situations fail. IMO, that line, while arguably may not be needed, proved just how special Gwen really is.

Changing the medium doesn't have a lot to do with it. It's more about adapting the story at the core rather than being accurate. Yes Peter revealed himself but that makes it more personal. Up to this point what Gwen has seen was that Peter wasn't totally fond of her Father (whom she was already scared of losing), Peter is Spider-Man, and her Father is going to help him stop the Lizard. He then dies in action, and Peter someone who's been sneaking into her room on a regular basis for small talks is suddenly out of her life when she needs him the most. Yes it makes Gwen smarter to realize that her father made him promise but it's too easy.

Too easy? Here's the thing. If she fell into the same trap, as I like to call it, that most other females seem to fall into it would have been an issue. Why? Well because throughout the entire film she shows her ability to reason, her ability to be strong and to be smart. It wouldn't fit her character to not figure out why Peter says I can't be with you. She's emotionally upset that Peter isn't around, yes, so up to the point where she confronts him it's only reasonable to assume that she would speculate. However, after speaking with him...she able to put one and one together and come to that understanding. It's actually brilliant of her and I totally respect how that played out by her and the filmmakers.

Personally I think it would have been more powerful if she walked away confused, after that line was delivered. Have the tragedy be that Peter wants to tell her that her father made him promise, but knowing that by doing so just leads him one step closer to breaking said promise.

Well, we are just gonna have to agree to disagree on this point cause I don't see it that way.

Thats not intelligence that's self control.

IMO it is intelligence. Self control is about putting down the donut and eating a carrot when you're trying to lose weight. Intelligence is about solving problems, rationalizing and coming to conlcusions based upon a thought process.

It's not a bad thing but it doesn't make her stupid not to realize it. If I go to a movie called Spider-Man I could care less about how smart Gwen Stacy is portrayed as long as she's not made into an idiot and her story is there to enhance Peters.

I know you've read Spidey comics. You know just as I do how important Gwen is to his lore. She was always shown in the comics as a strong female character and his greatest love interest. Making her more than just an idiot is not doing Gwen any justice. That's why her character in this movie is so well done imo.

Normally I think this excuse is BS but given this was the only subplot to be fully paid off in the film, I think the sequel will explain more about why they decided to go this way.

I'm sure it will but imo it's not a BS excuse. Once again I think we should just agree to disagree.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Here's basically the biggest reason why I love this Gwen character. Gwen suffers a great loss near the end of the film when she loses her father. She visits Peter to find out where he's been and is hurt even more by him not being around. After she spills herself to him he says...I'm sorry, but I just can't be with you anymore. She turns and begins to run away from him, her sadness and pain beyond comparison...but...then, she has a moment of clarity and turns back toward Peter..."He made you promise didn't he? So I'd be safe?"

It's that one line right there. That Gwen is smart enough to see why Peter can't be with her that completely saves her from being just another girl that just can't seem to understand why the guy says "I can't." Just that simple statement by her is all she needs to prove how smart and strong her character is in this film. Everything else she does simply supports this one thing from her.

I am slightly rubbed the wrong way because he father just died, but she is more focused on the fact she is shunned by a guy. At same time, I am not a fan of how Peter just throws the promise he made away (especially in the seductive tone he used). Doesn't make him look good, IMO.

I did enjoy Gwen as a character overall in this film, however. Definitely one of the film's bright spots.

 

[Anno_Domini]

ok but her dumbass got kidnapped in all 3 movies lol. And was blackmailed by harry. Gwen will more than likely be kidnapped once. And hopefully the real mary jane in tasm sequals wont be kidnapped.

It's not her being a dumbass that she was kidnapped, it was every villain, in some way, knowing either Peter being in love with MJ or the villain knowing that Spidey is Peter who's in love with MJ. And Connors had no idea that a thing was even there between Gwen and Peter.

 

[Mike]

It's not her being a dumbass that she was kidnapped, it was every villain, in some way, knowing either Peter being in love with MJ or the villain knowing that Spidey is Peter who's in love with MJ. And Connors had no idea that a thing was even there between Gwen and Peter.

And thats why gwen has one up on kirsten jane.

 

[grieven]

I am slightly rubbed the wrong way because he father just died, but she is more focused on the fact she is shunned by a guy. At same time, I am not a fan of how Peter just throws the promise he made away (especially in the seductive tone he used). Doesn't make him look good, IMO.

I did enjoy Gwen as a character overall in this film, however. Definitely one of the film's bright spots.

I didn't interpret that she was more focused on being shunned by a guy, but that she was wrecked that she lost her father, and the guy who she was close to and expected to support her just abandoned her. One of my favorite parts of the movie was when she realizes that her father made him promise to stay away from her, and how hard that was on both of them.

 

[Smegger56]

I didn't interpret that she was more focused on being shunned by a guy, but that she was wrecked that she lost her father, and the guy who she was close to and expected to support her just abandoned her. One of my favorite parts of the movie was when she realizes that her father made him promise to stay away from her, and how hard that was on both of them.

That's exactly how took it. Superb moment in the film

 

[LegendAssemble]

I'm sure it will but imo it's not a BS excuse. Once again I think we should just agree to disagree.

Whats not a BS excuse? Saying they're saving something for the sequel? That is a BS excuse imo. Name one instance where that hasn't turned out to be a bad idea.

 

[Mike]

Whats not a BS excuse? Saying they're saving something for the sequel? That is a BS excuse imo. Name one instance where that hasn't turned out to be a bad idea.

Avengers

 

[spider-neil]

Now that the origin is out of the way I expect the sequel to flow much better. I didn't have a problem with the pacing of the movie but I did feel they were hitting marks because they had to and avoiding certain things because it had been done already. The wont have that problem in the sequel, unless of course Peter starts losing his powers (please no...)

 

[Anno_Domini]

And thats why gwen has one up on kirsten jane.

How so? Once a villain knows that Gwen and Peter are an item, I'm sure she will be kidnapped. Maybe not in the final battle but during the middle(such as Rachel Dawes in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight), but it's still a huge possibility she'll be kidnapped. It's not a "one-up" only because Connors had no clue she had a thing going on with Peter Parker during the film. It was only smart writing for the relationship to be hidden from the villain.

 

[LegendAssemble]

ok but her dumbass got kidnapped in all 3 movies lol. And was blackmailed by harry. Gwen will more than likely be kidnapped once. And hopefully the real mary jane in tasm sequals wont be kidnapped.

There was purpose to each of her kidnappings. It's not stupid of her to get kidnapped 3 times. In Raimi's movies Peters driving motivation was his feelings for MJ, so her being compromised would be the emotional climax.

In SM1 the movie opens with Peter talking about his feelings for MJ and stating that this is a story about a girl. Throughout the movie Peter learns that his new abilities could put those he loves in danger. In the end her kidnapping makes him realize he can't be with her.

In SM2 the movie opens with a picture of MJ and how he can't be with her but he sees her everywhere. Peter is at a low and sees that being Spider-Man might not be such a good thing as because of his activities he has pushed his Aunt into bankruptcy, his best friend to madness, now has to live in a run down studio next to the subway, is failing school, losing both his job, and to top it all off the girl of his dreams is getting married. In the end this makes him say screw it and quit. The movie then goes to repeat things that happened in the first film (the fire, someone getting jumped in the ally, etc.) to show Peter how much worse things are without Spider-Man, naturally culminating with MJ getting kidnapped. NO ONE COMPLAINED ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT MADE SENSE. At the end of the movie she finds out he's Spider-Man he decides they'll have to face all of his enemies together.

In SM3 the working script with the Vulture and no symbiote had the many villains symbolizing all of Peters enemies attacking what he loved most. Given Venom's insertion into the film and the heart of the story shifting from Peters feelings for MJ, her kidnapping seemed more like BS.

On a side note I think SM3 could have been salvageable if MJ didn't seem like such a ***** and Venom killed her and Harry at end. This would give Peter punishment for attempting murder twice under the influence of the black suit and make Venoms death more acceptable as punishment for his own murders. It would have made his end speech about revenge more emotional and left the franchize in a better standing going into SM4 than it did as it is now.

 

[LegendAssemble]

Avengers

Not an example. The Avengers was built up mostly with after credits scenes and easter eggs. Captain America set up for the movie but ended with a cliff hanger, that's different than dropping subplots half way through the film.