Marvel Now - Part 4

[chamber-music]

I want to see less superhero versus superhero stories. They have always existed but have been really over played out the last few years.

 

[Specter313]

...I've been wondering....if the 616 and Ultimate universes are mixed up with ours, is the Spider-HAM universe mixed up with ours too?

I don't think that they're mixed up. I think it's more along the lines of all universes and realities are more firmly connected. I still haven't heard any real explanation yet as to why Angela and Galactus have been able to cross over.

But to answer your question, yeah, I guess it makes it all the easier for Spider-Ham to show up in the 616.

It's not so much that they're mixed up, but that there were some cracks made through the time stream with the Age of Ultron crap and some characters "bled through", hence 616 Galactus fell into the Ultimate universe, and Angela fell into the 616 one.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Haha, not surprisingly those are none of the books I read. I didn't like how inconsistent it was. Like some books double ship, others monthly, others delayed/late, etc... The numbering was confusing though with most book getting relaunched to #1, but then you had others which continued and others which simply got a name change. I really dislike the double shipping. That definetly makes it harder to read a larger number of different titles and if you miss an issue or two, its easy to fall behind and not jump aboard. That pretty much happened to me with some of the other books

I agree with you there. One thing that I really liked about DC and the New 52 is that the shipping has been consistent (one issue a month) across all books and asides from a few books (Batman, Detective Comics, Action Comics, Superman Unchained, Justice League, Justice League of America and Batman/Superman) the price has been the same at $2.99 even the books written by writers like Grant Morrison, Scott Snyder, and Geoff Johns. Marvel NOW! books have seen books ship two times a month to once a month and you're paying a premium based on writer (Bendis, Aaron, Hickman, Remender) or character (Spider-Man).

Continuity within the X-books is horrible and makes you wonder if the writers even communicate with each other.

I completely disagree with you there.

Like Iceman/Kitty decided to not date in WaTX, but they are an actual couple in Astonishing and All New.

Actually in Wolverine & the X-Men Iceman and Kitty decided to be a couple in issue #24. While Kitty had some reservations saying that they should maybe end it at one perfect date because as X-Men, they can't have normal lives as normal couples (along with the recent AvX problems) but Bobby still pushed it and they ended up together. The latest issue of Wolverine & the X-Men has them as a couple, just like in Astonishing X-Men and All-New X-Men.

Every other book seems to want to use Mystique as a villian and its difficult to keep track of that as these appearance doesn't necessarily jive with each other.

As opposed to the multiple appearances of Iron Man, Captain America, Spider-Man, and Wolverine?

And then theres the issue of redundant titles which don't need to exist. Like do we need yet another X-men? Amazing doesn't seem to offer anything that the others don't already fufill.

Astonishing X-Men is ending, so unless they relaunch Astonishing X-Men, think of Amazing X-Men as the replacement for that book. It also does fulfill a role in which the Jean Grey staff are able to act as X-Men which allows Wolverine & the X-Men to be more focused on the school while Amazing X-Men allows the staff to have X-Men-esque adventures away from the school. A typical X-Men team like the one we're seeing in Amazing X-Men really doesn't have a place in the extremists of Uncanny X-Men, the Original 5 of All-New X-Men, and the all-female cast of X-Men.

Do we need two X-force books?

That I'll agree with. Marvel should have just accepted Remender's conclusion as the end of the covert-ops styled X-Force and just simply relaunched with one X-Force book as opposed to two.

And I don't get why Marvel relaunched X-Men Legacy, by having it starring Legion and without the legacy numbering of X-Men volume 2, I just don't see any other conclusion than X-Men Legacy crashing in sales once Marvel NOW has started to settle down

 

[runawayboulder]

It's been confirmed by Marvel that they are cancelling Venom.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=47469

The are rumors out there that both Venom and Captain Marvel are slated to be relaunched as a part of NOW's 2nd Wave.

 

[javi1024]

This is what I don't understand about publishers (well Marvel mainly). If you're gonna cancel a book only to bring it back in a couple months, WHY CANCEL IT? Are people really complaining that 40+ issues is too long for a book? Don't they want to see one of these new books reach a high issue number as a testament to their strength as a title? Same crap they did with Uncanny X-Men: "You love the longest-running, uninterrupted series about your favorite band of mutants since 1963? Well sorry. Uncanny's last issue is #544, but be here next week when it comes back in Uncanny X-Men #1 (vol 2)! But don't get too excited cuz it's only gonna last about 20 issues cuz we wanna take the book in a new direction and renumber it again; even though the story has never really changed it's trajectory and is only following the path it's been set on since we "canceled" the original volume. It's gonna be great!"

All I'm saying is I started reading Batman at #612, X-Men at #423, and Spider-Man at #490 and I didn't cry about it...

 

[chamber-music]

I agree Javi1024.

These relaunches are stupid

 

[The Squirrel]

Agreed. Cancelling a book only to relaunch it makes zero sense.

 

[JewishHobbit]

The sad thing is, we support that crap. Every time they have a relaunch, even if it's the month after the previous volume ended, the sales go up. And even with good word of mouth, sales seldom improve on an already existing title. Marvel's trained us not to pick up books that are already running and to wait for some major change. Creative changes can bring in some readers, but not as many as a relaunch... so they relaunch... a lot... and we just keep supporting that with our dollars.

So why WOULDN'T they relaunch everything?

 

[BoredGuy]

The only benefit I could see is for trade-waiting

I'm not buying Uncanny or All-new right now, but if they end or get renumbered in a year, I may very well pick up the hardcovers
different example, I loved UXF but don't care about the new volume, so I may pick up the omnibus of Remender's run when it comes out, just to re-read

If it's something like that, where a writer had a definitive run, it makes sense
but agreed that Marvel's been doing it waay too much

 

[chamber-music]

There are people who like to buy issue 1 of titles for some reason.

I like books with high numbers. There is a sort of prestige, heritage and history to books that are in triple numbers.

If something has been around that long to reach those kind of numbers without being cancelled then it must be good.

 

[BoredGuy]

yeah totally

there should be like, one book per family that runs high, then the other titles get regular relaunches

so we'd still have uncanny x-men, amazing spider-man, fantastic four, and avengers that go on and on to high numbers, while the other books grasp for new readers

 

[hippie_hunter]

It's been confirmed by Marvel that they are cancelling Venom.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=47469

The are rumors out there that both Venom and Captain Marvel are slated to be relaunched as a part of NOW's 2nd Wave.

Venom I can see getting relaunched, but I'd be shocked if they did it with Carol Danvers. That book was a sales disaster for Marvel.

 

[Shockdingo]

It's been confirmed by Marvel that they are cancelling Venom.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=47469

The are rumors out there that both Venom and Captain Marvel are slated to be relaunched as a part of NOW's 2nd Wave.

That just crapped on my day...here's hoping the "BIG NEWS FOR VENOM" will be a relaunch and not them killing off Flash to give the symbiote to a new host. I hope Bunn stays on the book if relaunched.

 

[Panthro]

Venom I can see getting relaunched, but I'd be shocked if they did it with Carol Danvers. That book was a sales disaster for Marvel.

How bad were the sales for Captain Marvel exactly?

 

[hippie_hunter]

How bad were the sales for Captain Marvel exactly?

It debuted at 41k and was on the path to cancellation by issue #6. Rumors were stating that Marvel was trying to keep the book around as long as possible due to their apparent desire to have Carol Danvers in the Avengers sequel.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It's a shame that it's not selling well because it actually is a pretty good comic.

 

[Havok83]

It debuted at 41k and was on the path to cancellation by issue #6. Rumors were stating that Marvel was trying to keep the book around as long as possible due to their apparent desire to have Carol Danvers in the Avengers sequel.

If that's the case then they should just relaunch it as Ms. Marvel bc that's how she is most well known and how she'll likely appear in the movie.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I really hope they don't demote her from Captain back to Ms. Cancel her comic or whatever, but leave the name alone. She's more than earned that legacy at this point, and none of the other contenders are really worthwhile.

 

[Havok83]

Ms. Marvel is her. She built that name up and its identifiable with her. She's had different codenames but no matter what she always goes back to Ms Marvel. Its who she is and most of her defining moments come from that. As Captain Marvel, she's one of many and not even the most memorable. I don't think having her reclaim her title as Ms. Marvel is a demotion. I think making her Captain Marvel , made her generic.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. "Ms." automatically implies that she's "just" a female counterpart to the real deal, which is and always has been Captain Marvel. That's how I tend to see it.

 

[Havok83]

Maybe that's how she was when she debuted in the 70s, but she's far surpassed her "male counterpart", which is something that most female counterparts cant say. The original Captain Marvel is most well known for dying of cancer. Ms. Marvel has established quite the legacy for herself outside of his shadow and stands quite well on her own without needing to claim his name and mantle.

 

[blalex620]

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. "Ms." automatically implies that she's "just" a female counterpart to the real deal, which is and always has been Captain Marvel. That's how I tend to see it.

I think that argument only works when the "female counterpart" doesn't make a name for themselves. Carol has made a huge name for herself in the past couple decades, enough to turn her from the female counterpart of Captain Marvel to a full fledged self contained hero. Enough that if you didn't know who Mar Vell was you wouldn't even know they had a connection (which when I was introduced to her I didn't).

It's characters like Super-Girl who fits into the "just a female counterpart."

 

[Havok83]

I think that argument only works when the "female counterpart" doesn't make a name for themselves. Carol has made a huge name for herself in the past couple decades, enough to turn her from the female counterpart of Captain Marvel to a full fledged self contained hero. Enough that if you didn't know who Mar Vell was you wouldn't even know they had a connection (which when I was introduced to her I didn't).

It's characters like Super-Girl who fits into the "just a female counterpart."

we haven't agreed on some things in the past week but we definetly agree on this! Well said. For people that only know of one of them, most would probably go who is Captain Marvel (Mar-Vell), while having some knowledge of Ms. Marvel. Its not like a Superman/Supergirl, Batman/Batgirl, Spiderman/Spiderwoman thing where the male has and always will shadow the female.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Sure it is. She started out in that exact same mold. Ms. Marvel was created as the Supergirl to Captain Marvel's Superman. That's just plain fact. I actually agree with both of you that she's since surpassed Mar-Vell and earned the right to be a self-contained hero--which is why I think she deserves the Captain Marvel name, which is the "main" name for that family. Calling her Ms. Marvel in this day and age just seems outdated and silly when the perfectly good, stronger Captain Marvel moniker is just sitting there, unused.

 

[hippie_hunter]

This is what I don't understand about publishers (well Marvel mainly). If you're gonna cancel a book only to bring it back in a couple months, WHY CANCEL IT? Are people really complaining that 40+ issues is too long for a book? Don't they want to see one of these new books reach a high issue number as a testament to their strength as a title? Same crap they did with Uncanny X-Men: "You love the longest-running, uninterrupted series about your favorite band of mutants since 1963? Well sorry. Uncanny's last issue is #544, but be here next week when it comes back in Uncanny X-Men #1 (vol 2)! But don't get too excited cuz it's only gonna last about 20 issues cuz we wanna take the book in a new direction and renumber it again; even though the story has never really changed it's trajectory and is only following the path it's been set on since we "canceled" the original volume. It's gonna be great!"

All I'm saying is I started reading Batman at #612, X-Men at #423, and Spider-Man at #490 and I didn't cry about it...

While I prefer the larger numberings, I personally don't mind a relaunch if it weren't done so casually. Take DC's New 52 efforts, I think it's pretty clear that DC isn't going to be relaunching Batman, Superman, Green Lantern, Justice League, etc. anytime soon nor are they going to bring those books back to their original numberings. With Marvel's NOW books, I don't know if Marvel is going to relaunch their books with major creative shifts (something they have hinted at) or go back to their original numberings or the way they solicited Nova, are we going to be getting a dual numbering system.