MCU: The Marvel Cinematic Universe Official Discussion - Part 3

[Loki882]

TDW's plot may have been a little convoluted but I disagree it was contrived. It wasn't convenient that Jane found the convergence. It was explained in the movie that the reason she found it was because she was searching for anomalies that would lead her to Thor but stumbled upon the convergence instead. She had first hand experience with this stuff. She of all people would certainly find it.

The Dark Elves predated Heimdall and even predated this universe. As a result they possessed sufficient cloaking technology to not only conceal themselves from his sight but to even pass between the realms without the Bifrost. That's why they were such a threat. It was the one enemy Asgard could not see.

Odin's characterization is a man in grief who is not much different from his son. Where does Thor get his arrogance and obstinence from anyway? Just because they patched things up in the first film doesn't mean it's all sunshine and roses between the two of them from here on out. That's not real life at all.

And Ian throwing the car keys in the portal was hysterical.

I'll never understand the hate this film gets.

So I'm supposed to buy that a race that's been in cryo-sleep for eons essentially, somehow has more advanced tech than a race that's been active for all of that time and presumably upgraded their tech over time. A race that already DEFEATED said dormant one once? Nope, not buying it.

And Odin was acting like an A-hole BEFORE his wife died. He was basically acting like Thor was in the first movie, which was the very thing that caused Odin to banish him to Earth in the first place.

And the movie may have told us that Jane was searching for anomalies, ut boy did it not do a good job of actually SHOWING that. Heck they completely tossed out the whole "she's searching for you" thing from the end of the first movie by repairing the Bifrost right away. It's almost like destroying it in the first film turned out to be completely pointless.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

So I'm supposed to buy that a race that's been in cryo-sleep for eons essentially, somehow has more advanced tech than a race that's been active for all of that time and presumably upgraded their tech over time. A race that already DEFEATED said dormant one once? Nope, not buying it.

And Odin was acting like an A-hole BEFORE his wife died. He was basically acting like Thor was in the first movie, which was the very thing that caused Odin to banish him to Earth in the first place.

And the movie may have told us that Jane was searching for anomalies, ut boy did it not do a good job of actually SHOWING that. Heck they completely tossed out the whole "she's searching for you" thing from the end of the first movie by repairing the Bifrost right away. It's almost like destroying it in the first film turned out to be completely pointless.

Okay so a race that predates this universe and has existed for billions of years would not have any leg up on beings/species/whatever that have only been in existence during the life of this universe? They couldn't possibly have learned a thing or two during that time or have any other tricks up their sleeve? As far as Asgard "defeating" the Dark Elves, not only was that entire event lost in history when Bor believed he had destroyed the entire race, he obviously DID NOT defeat them because they still existed. Further the Dark Elves have the same advantage now as they did back then because Bor didn't even know where they were hiding either!

How is Odin an a-hole because he doesn't want his son who is expected to be King getting saddled down with someone of a weaker species who lives a mere fraction of his lifespan? Why would he want a mortal Queen of Asgard? He sent Thor to Earth to humble him not have him get romantically involved with what he (and even Loki) frankly consider to be pets.

As far as Jane searching for anomalies, what are you wanting them to show? The movie takes place 2 years after the events of the last film. Jane has been searching for him this whole time but is starting to lose hope and is especially discouraged because Thor was on Earth and never even said hello. They basically recapped this all at the dinner conversation that Darcy interrupted in London and then during the inspection of the anomalies in the derelict building. It's all in the dialogue. How much time needs to be wasted on getting audiences up to speed on what is basically background information?

 

[Whiskey Tango]

So I'm supposed to buy that a race that's been in cryo-sleep for eons essentially, somehow has more advanced tech than a race that's been active for all of that time and presumably upgraded their tech over time. A race that already DEFEATED said dormant one once? Nope, not buying it.

Doesn't much matter if you buy it or not. Science fictions best writers have been exploring the concept for decades. See Precursors for starters.

Plus if Loki is able to elude Heimdall's sight I see no reason why Malekith and Co. can't.

 

[BoredGuy]

And Odin was acting like an A-hole BEFORE his wife died. He was basically acting like Thor was in the first movie, which was the very thing that caused Odin to banish him to Earth in the first place.

And the movie may have told us that Jane was searching for anomalies, ut boy did it not do a good job of actually SHOWING that. Heck they completely tossed out the whole "she's searching for you" thing from the end of the first movie by repairing the Bifrost right away. It's almost like destroying it in the first film turned out to be completely pointless.

Agreed on these points

Odin was a wise old king, and somewhat nice, in the first film, then was just randomly his dickish 616-self in TDW

and I would've loved if they had shown just a quick clip of the asgardians rebuilding the bridge. Would've shown them in a more relatable "hey they're just a society like ours" way.

add that to the extra world building scenes that were apparently cut of them drinking and telling stories, and we coulda had a more robust Asgard

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Agreed on these points

Odin was a wise old king, and somewhat nice, in the first film, then was just randomly his dickish 616-self in TDW

So because a character is portrayed one way they can never exhibit any other qualities ever? Because people always act the same under all circumstances? A character should remain in stasis despite the fact that one son has turned into a traitorous megalomaniac, while his only other son won't embrace the kingship and is in love with someone who undermines his father's lifelong plans for him, along with advancing age and fading power, emergence of a powerful ancient enemy and the death of his wife.

Sounds legit.

 

[BoredGuy]

So because a character is portrayed one way they can never exhibit any other qualities ever? Because people always act the same under all circumstances? A character should remain in stasis despite the fact that one son has turned into a traitorous megalomaniac, while his only other son won't embrace the kingship and is in love with someone who undermines his father's lifelong plans for him, along with advancing age and fading power, emergence of a powerful ancient enemy and the death of his wife.

Sounds legit.

people can act differently under different situations
but to change that much without showing the audience the progression, at that point its called "out-of-character"

felt like a leap to me, and I'm sure some others
but hey, freak out if you want

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

people can act differently under different situations
but to change that much without showing the audience the progression, at that point its called "out-of-character"

felt like a leap to me, and I'm sure some others
but hey, freak out if you want

I'm not freaking out.

I'm merely offering counter arguments which others conveniently have ignored. A progression would be nice sure but how much screen time can be allowed for something like that with the number of characters this film juggled and a runtime of under 2 hours? The movie is not called Odin: The Dark World. There's something called context and if you take it into account it's not out of character at all. It's simply a situation we haven't seen the character in before.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

We didn't see Odin interact with humans at all in the first movie so there is in fact no progression along those lines to show, and it's not at all hard to imagine an ancient and advanced being treating one he considers inferior rudely anyway. That's not acting out of character.

So he acts like a dick, so what? Deities throughout history have been portrayed similarly, even the benevolent ones. He's not ****ing Santa Claus, he's Odin, and he doesn't have time for your piddly human crap, especially not with all the other chaos going on all around him.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Another thing to point out is that of all the characters Thor was impacted the most by the events of the Avengers. You have to look at Thor > Avengers > The Dark World as one arc. You can't start The Dark World and pretend like the Avengers didn't happen or didn't matter because of the fact that Loki was the chief antagonist in that film and now needs to answer for his crimes. The Avengers even ends with that cliffhanger.

if you wanted a progression arc for Odin you would have had to have Odin in Avengers showing a scene where he reacts to the events on Midgard and Loki's actions. That wasn't possible so instead you have a scene that shows how he treats Loki after said events.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

Odin was a wise old king, and somewhat nice, in the first film, then was just randomly his dickish 616-self in TDW

Completely disagree about this, the whole Loki thing was a mess because of him and he was very authoritarian.

 

[Wildcard]

^ Disagreed. He was a *****e in TDW, plain & simple. There's taking up an authoritarian position & there's being a dick. Odin was being a dick because he was doing everything he told Thor NOT to do in the first film, thus making him a hypocrite as well.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

^ Disagreed. He was a *****e in TDW, plain & simple. There's taking up an authoritarian position & there's being a dick. Odin was being a dick because he was doing everything he told Thor NOT to do in the first film, thus making him a hypocrite as well.

Explain.

 

[Wildcard]

Explain.

What do you mean explain? He quite clearly said in the film he would let as many Asgardians fall as possible to see success.

Yes, the death of his wife caused great anger in him. I get that. But he wasn't being fair & just, hence why Thor had to go behind his back to save Asgard.

Hell, if it wasn't for Thor Asgard would've been a smouldering pile of rubble. And it would've been all because of Odin.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

So we've established that Odin is not infallible and is subject to emotions and poor decision making just like every single other sentient being in the history of the cosmos. A fact that basically everyone already knew, aside from two people in this thread apparently. How is this news again?

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

What do you mean explain? He quite clearly said in the film he would let as many Asgardians fall as possible to see success.

Yes, the death of his wife caused great anger in him. I get that. But he wasn't being fair & just, hence why Thor had to go behind his back to save Asgard.

Hell, if it wasn't for Thor Asgard would've been a smouldering pile of rubble. And it would've been all because of Odin.

It's funny to me that I've seen people argue adamantly that Odin was in the right and Thor almost single handedly destroyed this universe by being completely irresponsible with the Aether. I see both sides to the issue but ultimately I have to go with Thor. His valor, along with a little luck and the help of a few friends, ultimately did save Asgard and the universe but Odin was just doing what a king must and those choices aren't always easy. As mentioned he's not infallible and is not above hypocrisy.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

What do you mean explain? He quite clearly said in the film he would let as many Asgardians fall as possible to see success.

Yes, the death of his wife caused great anger in him. I get that. But he wasn't being fair & just, hence why Thor had to go behind his back to save Asgard.

Hell, if it wasn't for Thor Asgard would've been a smouldering pile of rubble. And it would've been all because of Odin.

From Odin's perspective he was doing the right thing, in fact Thor's plan was much riskier than Odin's despite the fact that it ended up working out like @Ragnaroknroll already explained.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

No YT embedding because NBC is dick heads.

https://screen.yahoo.com/marvel-trailer-063110406.html

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Crap in a hat. That's like 2 months old.

 

[Flint Marko]

No YT embedding because NBC is dick heads.

https://screen.yahoo.com/marvel-trailer-063110406.html

Loved this so much it became my avatar.

 

[TheVileOne]

Something I still want to know.

Has anyone read Zak Penn's Avengers script. I am morbidly curious.

Is the reason Marvel won't let it out because it might have spoilers to something they want to use in the future?

 

[Shakel92]

So, I had a few minutes and tried to organize the MCU schedule for the next couple of years. I'm going to assume that the Netflix shows are going to come out every 6 months, because that makes the most sense. Also, all I've read suggests that Agents of Shield will only be three seasons long. I'm sure something will come along and take its place if it doesn't come back.


2015:
Agent Carter (Jan. 6 - Feb. 24)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 2 (episodes 11-19)
Avengers: Age of Ultron (May 1)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 2 (episodes 20-22)
Daredevil (Netflix - May)
Ant-Man (July 17)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 3 (episodes 1-10 Fall)
AKA Jessica Jones (Netflix - November)

2016
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 3 (episodes 11-22)
Captain America: Civil War (May 6, 2016)
Luke Cage (Netflix - May)
Dr. Strange (November 4, 2016)
Iron Fist (Netflix - November)

2017
Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (May 5, 2017)
The Defenders (Netflix - May)
Thor: Ragnarok (July 28, 2017)
Black Panther (November 3, 2017)

2018
Avengers: Infinity War Part I (May 4, 2018)
Captain Marvel (July 6, 2018)
Inhumans (November 2, 2018)

2019
Avengers: Infinity War Part II (May 3, 2019)

Thoughts? Ideas? Did I miss something?

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

So, I had a few minutes and tried to organize the MCU schedule for the next couple of years. I'm going to assume that the Netflix shows are going to come out every 6 months, because that makes the most sense. Also, all I've read suggests that Agents of Shield will only be three seasons long. I'm sure something will come along and take its place if it doesn't come back.


2015:
Agent Carter (Jan. 6 - Feb. 24)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 2 (episodes 11-19)
Avengers: Age of Ultron (May 1)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 2 (episodes 20-22)
Daredevil (Netflix - May)
Ant-Man (July 17)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 3 (episodes 1-10 Fall)
AKA Jessica Jones (Netflix - November)

2016
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 3 (episodes 11-22)
Captain America: Civil War (May 6, 2016)
Luke Cage (Netflix - May)
Dr. Strange (November 4, 2016)
Iron Fist (Netflix - November)

2017
Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (May 5, 2017)
The Defenders (Netflix - May)
Thor: Ragnarok (July 28, 2017)
Black Panther (November 3, 2017)

2018
Avengers: Infinity War Part I (May 4, 2018)
Captain Marvel (July 6, 2018)
Inhumans (November 2, 2018)

2019
Avengers: Infinity War Part II (May 3, 2019)

Thoughts? Ideas? Did I miss something?

honestly? I don't believe AoS will be limited to three seasons and I don't think they are done with Agent Carter after just 8-10 episodes, there will be at least a season 2

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

honestly? I don't believe AoS will be limited to three seasons and I don't think they are done with Agent Carter after just 8-10 episodes, there will be at least a season 2

Zero chance AoS goes three seasons because it can go to syndication after four. It either gets cancelled this year or it will at least go four.

 

[Shakel92]

I agree, but everything I've read is how they've only planned it out for three seasons. We shall see.

 

[MakeMinesMarvel]

So, I had a few minutes and tried to organize the MCU schedule for the next couple of years. I'm going to assume that the Netflix shows are going to come out every 6 months, because that makes the most sense. Also, all I've read suggests that Agents of Shield will only be three seasons long. I'm sure something will come along and take its place if it doesn't come back.


2015:
Agent Carter (Jan. 6 - Feb. 24)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 2 (episodes 11-19)
Avengers: Age of Ultron (May 1)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 2 (episodes 20-22)
Daredevil (Netflix - May)
Ant-Man (July 17)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 3 (episodes 1-10 Fall)
AKA Jessica Jones (Netflix - November)

2016
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 3 (episodes 11-22)
Captain America: Civil War (May 6, 2016)
Luke Cage (Netflix - May)
Dr. Strange (November 4, 2016)
Iron Fist (Netflix - November)

2017
Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (May 5, 2017)
The Defenders (Netflix - May)
Thor: Ragnarok (July 28, 2017)
Black Panther (November 3, 2017)

2018
Avengers: Infinity War Part I (May 4, 2018)
Captain Marvel (July 6, 2018)
Inhumans (November 2, 2018)

2019
Avengers: Infinity War Part II (May 3, 2019)

Thoughts? Ideas? Did I miss something?

Success of The Defenders on Netflix is going to lead to more series being made before 2019. And probably AoS will turn into Secret Warriors in a few seasons.