BvS New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!)

[OutOfBoose]

Not sure if anyone listens to the SuicideSquadCast but they loved BvS and the podcast on the movie is fantastic.

Where can we find it? Google doesn't give me anything.

 

[rogbngp]

Any of you guys know what that painting of angels and demons was in Lex's mansion? Reminds me of something from Gustav Dore, but in color.

I'd love to know that too. IIRC in the last shot that we see of it, there's a closeup of one of the demons in it--and the creature looks quite a bit like Batman, actually.

 

[Legendver2]

Thats one of Snyder's biggest strength and biggest weakness. People will go to town all day saying his movies are shallow with no depth - but the truth is the depth is there, theres loads of symbolism, nuanced character development etc etc. Its just that Snyder doesnt do a very good job of bringing it to the audience's attention. He has it just sort of out there and the viewer has to put it all together themselves. I dont know if this is intentional or not.

For example, the small controversy about why Zod wanted Lois on his ship with Kal. After that sequence Lois has a brief line where she says they looked inside her mind. If you didnt watch the film a couple of times you probably wouldnt be able to connect the dots right away.

Just another reason why alot of people are liking BvS more with repeat viewings.

Christopher Nolan is known for his extensive exposition, and I think thats one of the bigger reasons why hes such a hit with critics and the audience, and why Snyder is always a miss.

Don't mean to derail this thread, but since it does have to do with themes and layers, I just wanted to make a comment regarding this. I feel sometimes people refuse to believe that Snyder does all this intentionally, or is that good with this type of layered story telling. I see a lot of detractors call his films shallow and no depth, but then you bring up all these hidden themes and meanings, and all of a sudden they would say it's too on the nose or not subtle enough. Honestly, Snyder can't catch a break.

 

[NeoRanger]

Don't mean to derail this thread, but since it does have to do with themes and layers, I just wanted to make a comment regarding this. I feel sometimes people refuse to believe that Snyder does all this intentionally, or is that good with this type of layered story telling. I see a lot of detractors call his films shallow and no depth, but then you bring up all these hidden themes and meanings, and all of a sudden they would say it's too on the nose or not subtle enough. Honestly, Snyder can't catch a break.

In all fairness, they're not wrong. Snyder always provides a lot of themes that are worth considering and thinking about and often does a great job at touching upon them through visuals, but he never goes the distance. He always stumbles half-way through.

There is a rule, among many others, about writing anything; first write the story you want to tell, then find the themes you want in it. The opposite process usually brings about disjointed, poor stories that alienate the audience (be it readers, viewers, whatever), before they can appreciate what you're going for.

 

[The Guard]

Don't mean to derail this thread, but since it does have to do with themes and layers, I just wanted to make a comment regarding this. I feel sometimes people refuse to believe that Snyder does all this intentionally, or is that good with this type of layered story telling. I see a lot of detractors call his films shallow and no depth, but then you bring up all these hidden themes and meanings, and all of a sudden they would say it's too on the nose or not subtle enough. Honestly, Snyder can't catch a break.

What I see happening is that people just flat out claim those things aren't there and spin this into people making accusations to them about them not getting it.

It's like many people don't want to believe they missed something or misread the film considerably, and so they won't admit to doing so. That or they're just not attuned to that sort of thing.

"Show, don't tell" is a filmmaking mantra that is not practiced. Today's films, especially action and superhero films, tend to be exposition heavy, and people have gotten used to that.

 

[WoodyROM]

Where can we find it? Google doesn't give me anything.

https://suicidesquadcast.libsyn.com/

 

[Matt]

Don't mean to derail this thread, but since it does have to do with themes and layers, I just wanted to make a comment regarding this. I feel sometimes people refuse to believe that Snyder does all this intentionally, or is that good with this type of layered story telling. I see a lot of detractors call his films shallow and no depth, but then you bring up all these hidden themes and meanings, and all of a sudden they would say it's too on the nose or not subtle enough. Honestly, Snyder can't catch a break.

In all fairness, they're not wrong. Snyder always provides a lot of themes that are worth considering and thinking about and often does a great job at touching upon them through visuals, but he never goes the distance. He always stumbles half-way through.

There is a rule, among many others, about writing anything; first write the story you want to tell, then find the themes you want in it. The opposite process usually brings about disjointed, poor stories that alienate the audience (be it readers, viewers, whatever), before they can appreciate what you're going for.

What I see happening is that people just flat out claim those things aren't there and spin this into people making accusations to them about them not getting it.

It's like many people don't want to believe they missed something or misread the film considerably, and so they won't admit to doing so. That or they're just not attuned to that sort of thing.

"Show, don't tell" is a filmmaking mantra that is not practiced. Today's films, especially action and superhero films, tend to be exposition heavy, and people have gotten used to that.

I strongly suggest all of you re-read the first post of this thread.

 

[OutOfBoose]

https://suicidesquadcast.libsyn.com/

Thanks.

 

[BH/HHH]

Where can we find it? Google doesn't give me anything.

Here you go

https://suicidesquadcast.libsyn.com/size/2

It's also available on iTunes

 

[Legendver2]

They will. Maybe not the how, but that he's back, they absolutely will. Why wouldn't they? The marketing for BvS was extremely effective and since it's barely a spoiler anyway (considering they made it clear at the end of BvS that he's still alive), why wouldn't they use it to draw attention?

It's a big different between spoiling the fact that he's returning and showing the moment of his return. It's taking away that "hell yeah!" moment. I wish WB marketing team are bright enough to realise this.

Oh how I wish they hadn't shown the WW arrival moment and the trinity shot in the trailer. Keep your highlights exclusively for they paying audience can do wonder.

They can show some action shots of Superman, like they did with WW, but the battle debut moment should be kept hidden, since I'm 100% sure that is a fist pump moment for audiences. As for WW, technically the shot in the trailer was not her debut shot. Her actual debut show, with electric cello playing in background, was wayyyy more badass. And that Trinity shot is kind of unavoidable in trailers. Even Avengers 1 showed the group money shot in later trailers. Let's hope they keep most of the fist-pumpery shots in JL to a minimum in the trailers. I REALLLLLY want to be surprised by Superman's return debut with "What Are You Going To Do...." playing t:

Yeah. He led Doomsday to the spear, and fired the last kryptonite grenade when it counted. So he did help out. Just having a little giggle with that meme.

I really like that shot with batman in the foreground looking at the fight of gods happening in the background.

No. That reeks of Bruce Timm-ism.

Hey I ship WonderBat!

The important thing to understand about this is that there was a finished version of the film that was intended for release by Snyder that ran about 3:05. That version went under the knife and basically got a limb sawed off.

If this info is accurate, then I would say that if anyone is going to be angry about the editing of this film, please direct it at WB. Do not reflexively blame Snyder or assume that Chris Terrio didn't write a good script (as Jon Schnepp alleges). It looks like 1/6 (!) of this film is missing from the theater release!

I wonder if detractors will back track on their hate on Snyder if this extended cut actually fixes a lot of the editing issues that seems to be one of the major complaints about the film.

In all fairness, they're not wrong. Snyder always provides a lot of themes that are worth considering and thinking about and often does a great job at touching upon them through visuals, but he never goes the distance. He always stumbles half-way through.

There is one rule, among many others, about writing anything; first write the story you want to tell, then find the themes you want in it. The opposite process usually brings about disjointed, poor stories that alienate the audience (be it readers, viewers, whatever), before they can appreciate what you're going for.

I do agree on some points. Snyder does need to work on his storytelling and narrative capabilities. But whether or not he's able to execute, it's pretty clear that he has a lot of great ideas in implementation of themes and layers, so you can't really call his films shallow and without depth even though the execution might be questionable. But that's just my opinion, so feel free to disagree. I can kinda see this from both sides.

 

[Aejej]

They can show some action shots of Superman, like they did with WW, but the battle debut moment should be kept hidden, since I'm 100% sure that is a fist pump moment for audiences. As for WW, technically the shot in the trailer was not her debut shot. Her actual debut show, with electric cello playing in background, was wayyyy more badass. And that Trinity shot is kind of unavoidable in trailers. Even Avengers 1 showed the group money shot in later trailers.

They showed Hulk's rescue of a freefalling Iron Man, which is about as spoiler-y as one could get for showing anything from that movie. The Trinity shot did what it's designed to: put asses in seats. It did!

 

[bluearth]

Don't mean to derail this thread, but since it does have to do with themes and layers, I just wanted to make a comment regarding this. I feel sometimes people refuse to believe that Snyder does all this intentionally, or is that good with this type of layered story telling. I see a lot of detractors call his films shallow and no depth, but then you bring up all these hidden themes and meanings, and all of a sudden they would say it's too on the nose or not subtle enough. Honestly, Snyder can't catch a break.

I think a good example of the bias is Terrence Malick's Tree of Life (84% Rotten Tomatoes score). The film is extremely confusing, slow paced, boring, full of disembodied dialogue, etc etc. At least thats how I felt watching it.

In that film's case if you didnt understand it and felt the movie was disjointed with not a strong story, like they are saying about BvS, then its not the film's fault its your fault. Go watch it again. Your just not smart enough.

A Zack Snyder film gets no such special treatment

I mean, look at the Coens, they can make a truly awful, AWFUL movie like Hail Caesar and it still scores 85% at Rotten Tomatoes.

At this point, I dont really care what the critics think, I just hope they havent done enough damage to Snyder's reputation to hurt his chances at finishing his Man of Steel trilogy.

Theres plenty of films that critics like that I dont, and vice versa.

 

[DigificWriter]

Critics are hypocrites; it's as simple as that.

BvS and The Dark Knight are pretty much identical in terms of narrative, pacing, structure, and intent, and yet the latter gets praised while the former gets derided.

Fanboys aren't much better.

 

[hildenburg]

Amigos, let's try to stay on topic, we don't want this thread closed!

 

[Sleiek]

I'm not judging; I'm just saying that at this stage I don't know if I'll end up watching the Extended Cut because it seems kind of frivolous.

Dude, even if you buy the ultimate edition you still get the theatrical cut and the extended R rated cut.

You can decide to watch the extended cut whenever you feel like it, until then you can still stick to the theatrical cut which is included in the Ultimate edition.

I am glad they include 2 cuts in the same edition. I will watch both.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Is that how they're going to do the release?

I was under the impression that we would only be getting the "Extended Cut" as a home release.

 

[OutOfBoose]

If someone will get himself into ban, please ban him, but don't close the thread.

 

[Legendver2]

Does anyone still think the Knightmare future is still happening? I feel like the events of this movie sorta averted that.

 

[Slade W]

Dude, even if you buy the ultimate edition you still get the theatrical cut and the extended R rated cut.

You can decide to watch the extended cut whenever you feel like it, until then you can still stick to the theatrical cut which is included in the Ultimate edition.

I am glad they include 2 cuts in the same edition. I will watch both.

Will the standard DVD/Blu-ray contain the theatrical cut, or will they make some changes to it?

 

[Legendver2]

Will the standard DVD/Blu-ray contain the theatrical cut, or will they make some changes to it?

I don't see a standard edition available for Bluray on Amazon. The Bluray's available on Amazon are of the ultimate edition, while the DVD so far appears to be the standalone standard edition.

 

[Sleiek]

Will the standard DVD/Blu-ray contain the theatrical cut, or will they make some changes to it?

They have to, it will be a stupid move by WB if they decide the only home release version is a 3 hour R rated Superman film, don't you think?

Ofcourse they have the ultimate edition which includes the theatrical cut but I am sure they will release a cheaper standard edition with only the theatrical cut.

 

[BH/HHH]

If someone will get himself into ban, please ban him, but don't close the thread.

Huh?

 

[Sleiek]

Did you guys watch one of the latest SchmoesKnow videos? @ 1:30:00

Between two movies, they had to choose to keep one and remove one from existence. It was Batman v Superman against Age of Ultron.

5 out of 6 people chose to keep Batman v Superman. And 3 of those guys were kinda disappointed with BvS. Surprisingly.

So yeah, this movie is not as bad as people say it is.

 

[LamboMan]

You need to fire this cat as your best friend

Haha, yeah. Although now I'm beginning to get over it and feeling inspired by Supes to 'do the right thing' like Superman always does in BVS and thinking about forgiving him. I just want to know why someone would do that and once I understand why he did it, I'll be able to accept what happened and then I think I'll be at peace.

Yup. I read all that. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for reading!

This is a matter of taste but it's one of the things that I actually love about Snyder films. His films show rather than tell, and in that sense they are more demanding. Many viewers have a low tolerance for that. I've just gotten around to watching some of the Collider videos and seeing Jon Schnepp apoplectic about lack of verbal exposition--and wanting what sounded like actually very crude ways of communicating things to the audience. He's clearly frustrated by what the movie demands of the viewer.

I love mining, sifting through, and excavating layers of meaning in a film, and to me BvS is absolutely chock-full of them.

This is exactly why I love Snyder's films. They challenge me, they make me think and make me explore new ideas and themes that I didn't know existed before. They require a lot of viewings and some level of critical and creative thinking in order to fully absorb their vast depth.

Every one of his movies has had a really powerful impact on me and helped me understand and realise new things in this world that I hadn't thought of before. His movies are really intellectually stimulating, atleast to those who are open enough to let them do that.

Frankly put, Snyder's movies make me smarter and push me to be a better viewer and thinker.

Sadly though, most people want things cut and dry, they want to be spoon fed everything and don't have time to think or time for a movie that forces them to think.

My friends at work thought this movie sucked since it didn't do it's job of delivering the themes and story that it apparently wanted to or should have. I keep telling them that you just need to think about things since they aren't all that apparent when taken at face value and a movie like this needs to be mulled over and you need to read other people's perspectives and thoughts to be able to expand your own viewpoint.

They respond that if they didn't 'get' the movie on their first viewing then it's the movie's failing and not theirs and even though I shared the great articles I've found in this thread with them, they are not ready to read them since their egos wont let them.

People really need to be less egotistical and conceited in their role as a viewer. I told them this is an artistic film, they argue that I don't know what an artistic film is, lol.

All of Snyder's movies are artistic masterpieces and brilliant amalgamations of music, visuals, stories, themes, characters and symbolism. It's their loss if they can't see that.

 

[KidwiththeGold]

Did you guys watch one of the latest SchmoesKnow videos?

Between two movies, they had to choose to keep one and remove one from existence. It was Batman v Superman against Age of Ultron.

5 out of 6 people chose to keep Batman v Superman. And 3 of those guys were kinda disappointed with BvS. Surprisingly.

So yeah, this movie is not as bad as people say it is.

After the shock & awe i think a lot of these detractors will come back to this movie & see it's not as bad.. especially when we get the 3 hr cut.. I think it will be in a lot of peoples top cbm