Official Relationship Thread: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

[Erzengel]

Ok my been with my fiancee for the past 3 years we've finally set the the marriage date this year(DECEMEBER)..awesome.Shes been going to church for awhile and is deeply..DEEPLY involved with the everyday workings of the church,shes even put up scriptures plastered to her bedroom walls(nothing wrong with that..right?).Around thanksgiving she said.." we should stop having sex because..sex before marriage is wrong..of course my reply WTF WTF. But the funny thing is we do other "sexual things" and thats not an issue.WTF AGAIN.This week my fiancee caught the flu and I go to her apt and bring her soup, cleaned the apt and bring her meds (good bf that i am) she drops a bombshell on me.she says" for the past 3 days ive been sick in bed and talking with god and he says we should stop with the "sexual things we do as well". SO UHM..NOW IM A TAD PISSED...THAT MAY BE THE DEALBREAKER..I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO NOW

The thing that should bother you and something you might really need to talk to her, is her deciding things without your input.

 

[Anita18]

Wow mike..thanks..more things I must think about

Yeah, there's a chance it'll clear up when you get married, but there's also a chance that she gets even MORE religious and refuses birth control, and thus refuses sex until you're ready to have kids. There's definitely a slippery slope, and you can't really take her at her word about this, because she always might change her mind later.

The trick to a long-term relationship is to be willing to change with your partner. If your partner is going in a direction you can't go with, that's a very legitimate reason for separating on good terms while you still can.

Thanks

And it's true I am. one of the things that terrifies me the most is the idea of opening up, or rather, of not being open enough. But it's strange how this came to be -- like a lot of what we used to talk about, the "ideal" relationship that comes out of a really good friendship, how it just sort of sneaks up on you. This was that. And I'm grateful.

But yeah, this is all still a bit new for me. Whatever it is. I like it.

The thing that should bother you and something you might really need to talk to her, is her deciding things without your input.

Well, ultimately it's her body, so he shouldn't have to talk her or force her into sex without her consent. (Cause ya know, rape culture and all that.) But she shouldn't just expect him to be okay with suddenly cutting off sex and being all chaste about everything. Then she's just walking all over you. She should expect some pushback, some discussion.

 

[kane9321]

Thanks for all the advice really

 

[Edguy]

I'd say the issue here isn't not getting laid, but the person you potentially live your life with suddenly "talking to God"..?!?

 

[Erzengel]

Well, ultimately it's her body, so he shouldn't have to talk her or force her into sex without her consent. (Cause ya know, rape culture and all that.)

Should your fiance make a decision and take a job out of state before consulting you?

You might think that it's completely different but I've always stressed that the three most important things in a relationship is communication, trust AND intimacy.

And no where did I insinuate that kane had to force sex without her consent.

But I feel that kane has a right to discuss the issue of sex because it does involve him and further the fact that kane's finance is making all these decisions without him she essentially excluding all 3 from the relationship should raise major question marks.

But she shouldn't just expect him to be okay with suddenly cutting off sex and being all chaste about everything. Then she's just walking all over you. She should expect some pushback, some discussion.

Again communication is key. And unless kane hasn't revealed that, it seems like she's just laying down terms.

 

[Zatanna]

Yeah, there's a chance it'll clear up when you get married, but there's also a chance that she gets even MORE religious and refuses birth control, and thus refuses sex until you're ready to have kids. There's definitely a slippery slope, and you can't really take her at her word about this, because she always might change her mind later.

Did he say she's pentecostal? I grew up deeply involved in a pentecostal church, and I've never heard nor seen any devoted woman (that I know) in my church refusing birth control in a marriage or outside of a marriage (yes, there are pentecostal women who have sex outside of marriage, it happens a lot, actually. It really does depend on what you feel is right for yourself).

I can't say the same for women who apart of any other church though, because pentecostal is all I know. I know some Catholics have their own beliefs on birth control.

However, I would never say that someone won't do this, or someone won't do that. In this case, I think Erzengal is right. If you were having sex on a regular basis and then your girlfriend just up and decides that it's no longer an option for the moment, she's forgetting there's one other person that's in this relationship. That's no way to enter into a new marriage.

I'm probably not adding new here but I'll say this: I can't tell kane9321 to dump his fiance. I just can't do that. That's something he has to decide on his own. And he needs to discuss things further with her to know exactly where his opinions and needs in this relationship will stand from here on out. If she's going to make decisions that effect your relationship without YOU kane, then she doesn't respect you.

This,

If your partner is going in a direction you can't go with, that's a very legitimate reason for separating on good terms while you still can.

I absolutely agree with.

 

[kane9321]

yes zatanna..shes pentecostal church of god in christ

Shes trying to be an intercessory prayer person..and the things that we did in the past
were wrong she said to me. How can I lead people in prayer when what im doing is wrong..She told me this past friday (Im paraphrasing..but thats the coversation with god).. Guess god told her to stop all sexual activity till we're married

 

[knowsbleed]

You said she was sick in bed with the flu for 3 days when she was "talking to God" and came up with her decision to finally stop all forms of sexual activity... she was sick, she was probably hallucinating. High fevers can do that do you.

 

[kane9321]

You said she was sick in bed with the flu for 3 days when she was "talking to God" and came up with her decision to finally stop all forms of sexual activity... she was sick, she was probably hallucinating. High fevers can do that do you.

I told her that( hun its the fever)...I shouldnt have but I did. That just made things worse

 

[knowsbleed]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but just from your descriptions, she seems like a close minded individual.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

I told her that( hun its the fever)...I shouldnt have but I did. That just made things worse

You will NOT logic your way out of this.

what caused this is emotional, and there is ZERO amount of anything you can do with words to solve this. She made an emotional decision, and is using her religion as a means to rationalize it.

It will NOT matter how logical your point is. She will continue to make emotional decisions, without your input, and then rationalize them.

Any attempt to use logic with her would at the very best only result in her doing a few little sexual things with you, and even then should we act like she hates it while she’s doing it and as if she were being abused by a gross pervert. – That would be very degrading. And that is the BEST case scenario.

More likely she would get explosively emotional at your attempt at real logic and then use her rationalizations to VILLIFY you. Likely talk to all her friends about what a "bad guy" you are. – Even though you’ve been going out of your way for her, and she seems to not appreciate it at all.
Again, no amount of logic will correct this.

Ask yourself some questions; What are you afraid of if leaving her? Are you afraid of being lonely? Are you afraid of people shaming you for leaving her?

Perhaps her extreme emotional tantrum when you dump her? When she shrieks about you doing it because you’re a "BAD GUY man, icky male, who only wants seeeeeex, because he’s wicked and evil with his evil peeeenis!" ?– when she does this, don’t try to "logic" her out of her rage.

This only adds fuel to the fire. One cannot logic that which behaves and thinks illogically.

If you live with her, get all your important stuff out of the shared place. Contact family, friends, someone you can stay with until you are back on your feet with your own place. Anything of value, get out of there before dumping her if you can, to avoid the self-righteous rage of "break stuff he owns, because he deserves it for dumping the great and holy and infallible meeeee" that could follow dumping her.

You will get over it. You will find someone new who treats you better and appreciates you. You are NOT a bad guy for breaking up with someone. There is also a LOT more dignity in being alone than having an emotional parasite sucking the life out of you.

Lots of folks will tell you to talk to her. What they are saying is try and get her to see logic. They don't account for what to do when that fails.

Logic has already failed. Trying it again is insane. Don't do the same thing over and over and expect to get a new result. That makes you crazy.

Actions speak louder than words. She’s fired. This is an advice thread, and my advise is to dump her.

 

[kane9321]

Again...mike wow..thanks

 

[Anita18]

Should your fiance make a decision and take a job out of state before consulting you?

You might think that it's completely different but I've always stressed that the three most important things in a relationship is communication, trust AND intimacy.

And no where did I insinuate that kane had to force sex without her consent.

But I feel that kane has a right to discuss the issue of sex because it does involve him and further the fact that kane's finance is making all these decisions without him she essentially excluding all 3 from the relationship should raise major question marks.

Again communication is key. And unless kane hasn't revealed that, it seems like she's just laying down terms.

Right. And I think we're actually both saying that it's not the lack of sex that is the dealbreaker here, but the utter lack of communication. Talking her back into doing sexual things is only putting a band-aid on a symptom. It's not really going to solve anything, because there will be other issues where she just lays down terms.

It's just that when you said she was "making decisions without his input," it made it seem like he had some kind of stake over her body, because it was regarding this particular situation. I just made the distinction that sometimes having sex isn't a mutual decision two people come to. Sometimes one person doesn't feel like having sex (my fiance didn't get any for months and months when I was recovering from the stomach flu, because I was too nauseous all the time), and the other person just has to deal. I actually did half-expect him to be like, "Yeah, I'm not getting any, g'bye" but he stayed.

But in this case yes, she's just laying down terms for future sexual activity, full stop. And doesn't have the "can't help it at all" excuse of being sick. I also did not "decide to be celibate" until I got better. It was just that every day, I just wasn't feeling it. It's her attitude that's the problem, her insistence that he accepts the relationship even though she's making it impossible for him to be in one with her.

You will NOT logic your way out of this.

what caused this is emotional, and there is ZERO amount of anything you can do with words to solve this. She made an emotional decision, and is using her religion as a means to rationalize it.

It will NOT matter how logical your point is. She will continue to make emotional decisions, without your input, and then rationalize them.

Any attempt to use logic with her would at the very best only result in her doing a few little sexual things with you, and even then should we act like she hates it while she’s doing it and as if she were being abused by a gross pervert. – That would be very degrading. And that is the BEST case scenario.

More likely she would get explosively emotional at your attempt at real logic and then use her rationalizations to VILLIFY you. Likely talk to all her friends about what a "bad guy" you are. – Even though you’ve been going out of your way for her, and she seems to not appreciate it at all.
Again, no amount of logic will correct this.

Ask yourself some questions; What are you afraid of if leaving her? Are you afraid of being lonely? Are you afraid of people shaming you for leaving her?

Perhaps her extreme emotional tantrum when you dump her? When she shrieks about you doing it because you’re a "BAD GUY man, icky male, who only wants seeeeeex, because he’s wicked and evil with his evil peeeenis!" ?– when she does this, don’t try to "logic" her out of her rage.

This only adds fuel to the fire. One cannot logic that which behaves and thinks illogically.

If you live with her, get all your important stuff out of the shared place. Contact family, friends, someone you can stay with until you are back on your feet with your own place. Anything of value, get out of there before dumping her if you can, to avoid the self-righteous rage of "break stuff he owns, because he deserves it for dumping the great and holy and infallible meeeee" that could follow dumping her.

You will get over it. You will find someone new who treats you better and appreciates you. You are NOT a bad guy for breaking up with someone. There is also a LOT more dignity in being alone than having an emotional parasite sucking the life out of you.

Lots of folks will tell you to talk to her. What they are saying is try and get her to see logic. They don't account for what to do when that fails.

Logic has already failed. Trying it again is insane. Don't do the same thing over and over and expect to get a new result. That makes you crazy.

Actions speak louder than words. She’s fired. This is an advice thread, and my advise is to dump her.

Yeah, in my experience, when people feel close to God, they often don't listen to logic. It's quite the emotional connection.

If you're not on the same mental wavelength, get out while you can. It will be SUCH a headache later. Wedding is in December, people will deal.

 

[Erzengel]

It's just that when you said she was "making decisions without his input," it made it seem like he had some kind of stake over her body, because it was regarding this particular situation.

Just to clarify what I said, if 2 people are in a physical relationship with each other and even engaged, there is a level of intimacy expected. And that goes both ways.

I know some women with healthier sexual libidos then the men they are with.

It's not necessarily wrong to expect sex, albeit the frequency can be debated.

But in kane's example, two people who were sexually active, and one says for the next year we are going to be celibate, how does that NOT effect the other party?

 

[Anita18]

Just to clarify what I said, if 2 people are in a physical relationship with each other and even engaged, there is a level of intimacy expected. And that goes both ways.

I know some women with healthier sexual libidos then the men they are with.

It's not necessarily wrong to expect sex, albeit the frequency can be debated.

But in kane's example, two people who were sexually active, and one says for the next year we are going to be celibate, how does that NOT effect the other party?

I agree that it does affect the other party, but just the way that you worded it made it seem like "how dare she make a decision about her own body without consulting you."

But we're essentially agreeing. And that it's deep down a communication issue.

 

[Erzengel]

Well, no need to start burning your bra and taking it to the streets.

 

[Anita18]

Well, no need to start burning your bra and taking it to the streets.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

I agree that it does affect the other party, but just the way that you worded it made it seem like "how dare she make a decision about her own body without consulting you."

But we're essentially agreeing. And that it's deep down a communication issue.

Add to that withholding sex, or other forms of intimacy is also a power and control issue.

It also says something about her outlook on their relationship.

Sure he isn't just entitled to have sex with her, and she does not "need" to consult him about it.

She is not either entitled to a relationship with him either, and he does not "need" to consult her either for permission to dump her.

He needs to be careful about dumping her as she could be a girl who has no concept of her own double standards, this is evidenced by her hostile attitude when he tried to communicate with her.

Her attitude: "I have the power to say no, so NO more sex. It's MY body guuuurl power!" and "he better just deal with it".

The guy then says, ok, I’m dumping you, and her attitude becomes: "how dare he say NO to a relationship with ME! Because I siad no more seeex? He isn’t entitled to THAT! My vagina is more important than anything about him, and he’s dumping me because I won’t give that to him??! How DARE HE! That’s Petty! He deserves it if I throw is playstation out the window! He had it coming".

– someone who thinks so illogically cannot be reasoned with, and are incapable of seeing the irony in their own double standard or hostility.

This is why I say he needs to get his possessions out of her reach before dumping her, if possible.

Also, when I say break up, I also mean do NOT use the threat of dumping as a means of regaining control of the sex either. I mean the relationship is truly OVER. No going back. Threatening to break up as a means of control is just as bad as withholding intimacy.

Another thing to be careful of; Sometimes when you try dumping someone they turn into Gollum. "no Nooooo We’ll be gooood, juuuust like old times, remember? Yeeees We’re in loooooove".

Don’t fall for it. She’s just trying to get your ring!

 

[The Guard]

Pretty much everything SuperMike has said.

There's a basic compatability issue at play here, not just sexually, but spiritually, morally, and in terms of logic and reason, which, he's right, you won't be able to use to make her see the light.

You cannot rationalize the irrational, which is what makes the irrational so dangerous (and so appealing, I guess). Big shifts in relationship dynamics like this are a huge red flag in any relationship, and expecting anything to change for the better after marriage is at best false hope.

 

[kane9321]

Add to that withholding sex, or other forms of intimacy is also a power and control issue.

It also says something about her outlook on their relationship.

Sure he isn't just entitled to have sex with her, and she does not "need" to consult him about it.

She is not either entitled to a relationship with him either, and he does not "need" to consult her either for permission to dump her.

He needs to be careful about dumping her as she could be a girl who has no concept of her own double standards, this is evidenced by her hostile attitude when he tried to communicate with her.

Her attitude: "I have the power to say no, so NO more sex. It's MY body guuuurl power!" and "he better just deal with it".

The guy then says, ok, I’m dumping you, and her attitude becomes: "how dare he say NO to a relationship with ME! Because I siad no more seeex? He isn’t entitled to THAT! My vagina is more important than anything about him, and he’s dumping me because I won’t give that to him??! How DARE HE! That’s Petty! He deserves it if I throw is playstation out the window! He had it coming".

– someone who thinks so illogically cannot be reasoned with, and are incapable of seeing the irony in their own double standard or hostility.

This is why I say he needs to get his possessions out of her reach before dumping her, if possible.
Also, when I say break up, I also mean do NOT use the threat of dumping as a means of regaining control of the sex either. I mean the relationship is truly OVER. No going back. Threatening to break up as a means of control is just as bad as withholding intimacy.

Another thing to be careful of; Sometimes when you try dumping someone they turn into Gollum. "no Nooooo We’ll be gooood, juuuust like old times, remember? Yeeees We’re in loooooove".

Don’t fall for it. She’s just trying to get your ring!

Its a good thing we dont live together...t:

 

[Edguy]

Another thing to be careful of; Sometimes when you try dumping someone they turn into Gollum. "no Nooooo We’ll be gooood, juuuust like old times, remember? Yeeees We’re in loooooove".

Don’t fall for it. She’s just trying to get your ring!

Clever analogy man, clever!

 

[SuperMike335!!]

Its a good thing we dont live together...t:

Awesome.

You can get out of this one smelling like Roses

 

[Anita18]

Add to that withholding sex, or other forms of intimacy is also a power and control issue.

It also says something about her outlook on their relationship.

Sure he isn't just entitled to have sex with her, and she does not "need" to consult him about it.

She is not either entitled to a relationship with him either, and he does not "need" to consult her either for permission to dump her.

He needs to be careful about dumping her as she could be a girl who has no concept of her own double standards, this is evidenced by her hostile attitude when he tried to communicate with her.

Her attitude: "I have the power to say no, so NO more sex. It's MY body guuuurl power!" and "he better just deal with it".

The guy then says, ok, I’m dumping you, and her attitude becomes: "how dare he say NO to a relationship with ME! Because I siad no more seeex? He isn’t entitled to THAT! My vagina is more important than anything about him, and he’s dumping me because I won’t give that to him??! How DARE HE! That’s Petty! He deserves it if I throw is playstation out the window! He had it coming".

– someone who thinks so illogically cannot be reasoned with, and are incapable of seeing the irony in their own double standard or hostility.

This is why I say he needs to get his possessions out of her reach before dumping her, if possible.

Also, when I say break up, I also mean do NOT use the threat of dumping as a means of regaining control of the sex either. I mean the relationship is truly OVER. No going back. Threatening to break up as a means of control is just as bad as withholding intimacy.

Another thing to be careful of; Sometimes when you try dumping someone they turn into Gollum. "no Nooooo We’ll be gooood, juuuust like old times, remember? Yeeees We’re in loooooove".

Don’t fall for it. She’s just trying to get your ring!

It can be, especially when the woman doesn't respect the man and only thinks of him as a horny sex machine.

It would be pretty hilarious if kane9321's fiancee was going about this thinking that she was "testing" him to make sure he wasn't with her just for the sex. Of course, not realizing that laying down "no sex" terms out of the blue, with no attempt at discussion, is a crazy psycho move. So kane dumps her for being a non-communicative psycho, she thinks, "That jerk! He was only with me for the sex! Good riddance!" and continues on her merry way. Maybe getting engaged to another guy and trying the same trick to "test" him, never realizing that it's her that's crazy.

Either way, he's probably better off...hopefully you didn't pay a bunch of deposits for the wedding already.

 

[kane9321]

It can be, especially when the woman doesn't respect the man and only thinks of him as a horny sex machine.

It would be pretty hilarious if kane9321's fiancee was going about this thinking that she was "testing" him to make sure he wasn't with her just for the sex. Of course, not realizing that laying down "no sex" terms out of the blue, with no attempt at discussion, is a crazy psycho move. So kane dumps her for being a non-communicative psycho, she thinks, "That jerk! He was only with me for the sex! Good riddance!" and continues on her merry way. Maybe getting engaged to another guy and trying the same trick to "test" him, never realizing that it's her that's crazy.

Either way, he's probably better off...hopefully you didn't pay a bunch of deposits for the wedding already.

just paid for the reception hall right before christmas..thats about it.We were discussing photograhpers lastweek

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Actually, Erzette is a my own personal heater. Lots of body heat. Great in the winter. Not so much in the summer.

Cuddling while sleeping is great in winter, not so much in summer for me.

The way things are going it certainly seems like winter will be something I have to describe to my kids if and when that happens.