Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - Part 8

[mclay18]

Truth be told wasn't the Hobbit 1 about the same length as FOTR.

FOTR was nine minutes longer... just two minutes shy of 3 hours.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Really? I feel that would be the perfect finale to end part 2 with this huge exciting sequence that would conclude the quest they went on. With the exception of the final battle.

I can't imagine it ending after Bilbo meets Smaug.

It wouldn't be about missing out on the great battle or anything like that. I just think it is going to feel cut adrift.

So with the critics, I just keep hearing that it's not like LOTR. Any better criticisms of the actual execution of the story? Because things like that I don't mind. When people say it's not like LOTR they are missing the point. I don't mind critics, but if this was like LOTR, with their nature, they would turn around and question why it's so much like LOTR and would want it to be its own thing.

When they say it isn't LotR, I think a part of the problem it is trying to be LotR a lot of the time. In its execution and stakes. It can't help itself with the references to the return of you know who. Also, in so many ways it is cut and edited together to be another FotR.

FOTR was nine minutes longer... just two minutes shy of 3 hours.

And it was much, much tighter, even while being longer.

 

[mclay18]

And it was much, much tighter, even while being longer.

Oh definitely. I don't disagree with you on that one. That's the main beef I have with this movie: the inconsistent pacing. The last hour of the movie is wonderfully edited; it's the first 90 minutes that needed more work.

I won't buy the Extended Edition for this movie.

 

[Kane52630]

Just got back, it was pretty incredible. I love how I was re-reading the book recently and I stopped right when this film stopped. I loved every minute Azog was on screen, if they didn't added him to the story people would be thinking that there isn't a real threat on the journey. There's lots of great moments but The Moria battle was my favorite moment in the film with 2nd being seeing the Necromancer and the Witch King.

Also I saw this in 3D 48 fps, I got to say at first I wasn't feeling it. I think it was because I wasn't expecting how it would play out and at first it did feel it was going too fast but once the dwarves showed up in Bilbo's house I got used to it. I honestly think 3D 48 fps works extremely well with CG characters and wide shots. It was really like seeing it in real life, it was like you were there experiencing their journey. It actually makes me want to see what Cameron will do with Avatar 2 (seeing it's mostly CG characters/landscapes) because THAT will be something to see in this format.


As of right now I'll give this a 9/10, I want to see it again in 2D this time just to see the difference.

 

[Marvolo]

Bare with me everyone I've defended the decision to turn this into three films, but I gotta be honest about this film, and I am a bit scatter-brained. I'll get the negative out of the way first, and then get to what I liked which was quite a lot.

Just got back and...the film needed some more work. Was entirely too long. Though I liked what was the there and would hate to see it cut it could have been tightened up for a better cinematic presentation. As it stands it felt like pure indulgence. I'm sure in my comfy armchair it would play better, but at a packed theater it was damn near tedious until they got to Rivendale. The CGI was great sometimes, and dodgy other times. When they are running from the wargs and Radagast was leading the wargs away on his sled it was inexcusable. For such a long movie I have rarely seen such a group of underdeveloped characters. Seriously, did Bombur speak one line? Once they got to Rivendale the film improved immensly for me, but once again that bit could have been tightened up. We didn't need the scene of the dwarves eating and Bombur breaking the bench. The conversation between Galadriel and Gandalf about Bilbo wasn't really necessary in the theatrical cut. The walking didn't feel near as epic and atmospheric this time. Can't really put my finger on why that is, because even after ten years the LOTR walking and scenic moments still get me. Some bits lingered longer than they should and many scenes and shots could have had seconds trimmed. All in all this felt like a rough draft of a better film, and I really think it is because of the late decision to make it into 3 films. Perhaps because they have longer to work with the next two parts they will be better films. I had other problems, but I can't think of them at the moment.

OK, now for the good, Erebor was ****ing awesome! That whole bit about the Arkenstone and the might and glory of Erebor was fantastic. I really could have just watched a whole movie about the backstory of Erebor and Thorin's people and the War of the Orcs and Dwarves. And the design of Erebor was just...wow! It had the fantasy geekl in me going wild. It was sooo dwarvish.

Thorin is a badass, and Balin is great. Really loved their characters and their bond. Can't wait to see more of them. Their scene at Bagend after the dinner was touching and you got a real sense that these two would go through hell and highwater for one another.

I liked Bofur too. When he tried to stop Bilbo leaving, and Bilbo said "You dont have a home. You don't belong anywhere!" The look on Bofur's face was heartbreaking. I felt so bad for him, because he really seemed to like Bilbo and seemed to be looking after him, which goes back to character development. There should have been more of that. Bofur was the first to look for Bilbo on the mountain after the Stone Giants duked it out, and he tried to get Bilbo to stay with the company. A scene or two more of Bofur looking after Bilbo and talking to him may have went a long way to developing Bofur. As it stands he is a cool guy tho, and one I already feel an attachment too.

I liked Radagast. Cooky old codger was pretty funny, and he can handle his own as seen in Dol Guldur. Seeing the [BLACKOUT]ringwrath spectre[/BLACKOUT] was really cool, and the necromancer was successfully creepy, but I wish that storyline could have been dwelt on a bit more in this film.

Holy **** Cate Blanchet was gorgeous!

I liked the scene of the dwarves cleaning the dishes. I really liked all the scenes in the film, but like I said as a theatrical presentation Jackson really indulged, and the dwarves characters have very little to show for it. What little I got of the dwarves I really liked, tho.

One other bad thing while I am thinking about it, the bit at the end when Thorin charges Azog through the burning trees was a bit much. The slow motion, the welling Ringwraith theme, the long shot, Balin, I think it was him, screaming NOOOOOOOO!!!!, it all just came acrossed as forced and melodramatic .

Im sure in the next few days, and after more viewings I will have more thoughts. Right now I give it a 7. As theatrical presentations go it was rough, but at home on my couch or in my comfy bed it will play a lot better. Just hard to fully appreciate a nearly 3 hour film in a cramped hot theater.

Oh, and I watched it in 2D, and that was a mistake, I think. The fight scenes were cluttered without that added depth, and there was some really bad motion blur in the prologue when the camera is panning around Erebor's interior. But that may have just been my theater. This film was shot with 3D in mind and I think it should be seen in 3D.

 

[moviedoors]

So with the critics, I just keep hearing that it's not like LOTR. Any better criticisms of the actual execution of the story?

Have you actually read any of the reviews? Every negative review I've read of it mentions how the story isn't well told ie not well executed.

 

[Marvolo]

Have you actually read any of the reviews? Every negative review I've read of it mentions how the story isn't well told ie not well executed.

It really isn't executed well, and I kept getting the sense that it was dragged thin. I've been defending the three films, but it was pretty clear that this could have been a tighter better film. I'm hoping and guessing this is all because this film was late in post-production when the decision to make three films was made. The next two will be going into post production with the idea of three films fully in mind so they should come together better.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Just got back from my second viewing of the hobbit. I really dug Bofur even more.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Bare with me everyone I've defended the decision to turn this into three films, but I gotta be honest about this film, and I am a bit scatter-brained. I'll get the negative out of the way first, and then get to what I liked which was quite a lot.

Just got back and...the film needed some more work. Was entirely too long. Though I liked what was the there and would hate to see it cut it could have been tightened up for a better cinematic presentation. As it stands it felt like pure indulgence. I'm sure in my comfy armchair it would play better, but at a packed theater it was damn near tedious until they got to Rivendale. The CGI was great sometimes, and dodgy other times. When they are running from the wargs and Radagast was leading the wargs away on his sled it was inexcusable. For such a long movie I have rarely seen such a group of underdeveloped characters. Seriously, did Bombur speak one line? Once they got to Rivendale the film improved immensly for me, but once again that bit could have been tightened up. We didn't need the scene of the dwarves eating and Bombur breaking the bench. The conversation between Galadriel and Gandalf about Bilbo wasn't really necessary in the theatrical cut. The walking didn't feel near as epic and atmospheric this time. Can't really put my finger on why that is, because even after ten years the LOTR walking and scenic moments still get me. Some bits lingered longer than they should and many scenes and shots could have had seconds trimmed. All in all this felt like a rough draft of a better film, and I really think it is because of the late decision to make it into 3 films. Perhaps because they have longer to work with the next two parts they will be better films. I had other problems, but I can't think of them at the moment.

OK, now for the good, Erebor was ****ing awesome! That whole bit about the Arkenstone and the might and glory of Erebor was fantastic. I really could have just watched a whole movie about the backstory of Erebor and Thorin's people and the War of the Orcs and Dwarves. And the design of Erebor was just...wow! It had the fantasy geekl in me going wild. It was sooo dwarvish.

Thorin is a badass, and Balin is great. Really loved their characters and their bond. Can't wait to see more of them. Their scene at Bagend after the dinner was touching and you got a real sense that these two would go through hell and highwater for one another.

I liked Bofur too. When he tried to stop Bilbo leaving, and Bilbo said "You dont have a home. You don't belong anywhere!" The look on Bofur's face was heartbreaking. I felt so bad for him, because he really seemed to like Bilbo and seemed to be looking after him, which goes back to character development. There should have been more of that. Bofur was the first to look for Bilbo on the mountain after the Stone Giants duked it out, and he tried to get Bilbo to stay with the company. A scene or two more of Bofur looking after Bilbo and talking to him may have went a long way to developing Bofur. As it stands he is a cool guy tho, and one I already feel an attachment too.

I liked Radagast. Cooky old codger was pretty funny, and he can handle his own as seen in Dol Guldur. Seeing the [BLACKOUT]ringwrath spectre[/BLACKOUT] was really cool, and the necromancer was successfully creepy, but I wish that storyline could have been dwelt on a bit more in this film.

Holy **** Cate Blanchet was gorgeous!

I liked the scene of the dwarves cleaning the dishes. I really liked all the scenes in the film, but like I said as a theatrical presentation Jackson really indulged, and the dwarves characters have very little to show for it. What little I got of the dwarves I really liked, tho.

One other bad thing while I am thinking about it, the bit at the end when Thorin charges Azog through the burning trees was a bit much. The slow motion, the welling Ringwraith theme, the long shot, Balin, I think it was him, screaming NOOOOOOOO!!!!, it all just came acrossed as forced and melodramatic .

Im sure in the next few days, and after more viewings I will have more thoughts. Right now I give it a 7. As theatrical presentations go it was rough, but at home on my couch or in my comfy bed it will play a lot better. Just hard to fully appreciate a nearly 3 hour film in a cramped hot theater.

Oh, and I watched it in 2D, and that was a mistake, I think. The fight scenes were cluttered without that added depth, and there was some really bad motion blur in the prologue when the camera is panning around Erebor's interior. But that may have just been my theater. This film was shot with 3D in mind and I think it should be seen in 3D.

The question is, when is she not? t:

I don't want to say I told you so...

We seemed to enjoy the same things for the most part and have similar criticisms, with the exception of Radagast. I agree this feels so much more like a lazy afternoon film in on your coach or in your bed.

On the walking. I think one of the major problem is that it doesn't feel like they make much progress. Think about how much ground that make up in FotR and even TTT with each scene. The walking scenes had purpose and an almost immediate destination, an urgency, even with the overarching goals. The discover of the Nazgul, finding Strider, blocking the way until they had to go through Moria, etc. Because they are stretching the material here, a lot of scenes just kind of linger.

It really isn't executed well, and I kept getting the sense that it was dragged thin. I've been defending the three films, but it was pretty clear that this could have been a tighter better film. I'm hoping and guessing this is all because this film was late in post-production when the decision to make three films was made. The next two will be going into post production with the idea of three films fully in mind so they should come together better.

I think that is a great possibility with the second film, but I am not so sure with the third. It could turn into the love child of the last hour of RotK and DH pt2.

 

[Quasimod0]

Oh, and I watched it in 2D, and that was a mistake, I think. The fight scenes were cluttered without that added depth, and there was some really bad motion blur in the prologue when the camera is panning around Erebor's interior. But that may have just been my theater. This film was shot with 3D in mind and I think it should be seen in 3D.

I noticed this too actually. Mainly at the part you did, didnt notice it many times afterward. Thats my only real gripe

 

[kedrell]

This felt like what we got in the LOTR films with the extended editions. As one who as soon as I got those, tossed my theatrical cuts for the substandard rubbish that they were....I loved this movie. Sure, it's not tightly paced. So what? I just wanted to immerse myself in this great world again w/o having to watch the LOTR EE films again for the hundredth time. So this gave me exactly what I was hoping for and can't wait to have them all on my shelf next to the other trilogy. I saw it in 2-D and I think based on what I'm hearing that I made the right call there.

8.5/10

 

[bunk]

Loved it. Didn't feel long to me at all actually. I just wanted it to keep going when the end came.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

This felt like what we got in the LOTR films with the extended editions. As one who as soon as I got those, tossed my theatrical cuts for the substandard rubbish that they were....I loved this movie. Sure, it's not tightly paced. So what? I just wanted to immerse myself in this great world again w/o having to watch the LOTR EE films again for the hundredth time. So this gave me exactly what I was hoping for and can't wait to have them all on my shelf next to the other trilogy. I saw it in 2-D and I think based on what I'm hearing that I made the right call there.

8.5/10

It is about the art of film making. As I said I really, really liked it. But as a film, it is not all it could have been.

Loved it. Didn't feel long to me at all actually. I just wanted it to keep going when the end came.

Every time I read this kind of comment it makes me smile. Of course you wanted to keep going, they ended the story mad early, right when it was getting good. t:

 

[kedrell]

As long as there's something to keep me interested going on onscreen then I'm happy. Pacing to me only comes into play when you have to get through the boring parts of a film quick enough that you as a filmmaker don't lose the audience's attention. Fortunately for me, I can't recall a scene in this film that didn't hold my interest on some level.

 

[Boom]

It is time to begin the countdown to the greatest character in the history of everything:

Spoiler

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It is time to begin the countdown to the greatest character in the history of everything:

Spoiler

Beorn me, Beorn you, a-ha. t:

 

[flickchick85]

It really isn't executed well, and I kept getting the sense that it was dragged thin.

I just got back, and I've gotta say, this was my overall impression of the film as well. FotR was apparently longer, but this one felt MUCH longer to me. There were scenes I loved, and scenes that I completely lost interest in (and Jackson's taste for melodramatic slo-mo seems to have gotten worse over the years, which I did not think possible). There seemed to be more deus ex machina moments, too. Overall, I enjoyed the pieces much more than the whole.

And I hated the 48fps 3D, except during the big action sequences. If I see the movie again, it will be in regular ol' 2D.

 

[terry78]

Let's hope he's not just bear-ly there.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

As long as there's something to keep me interested going on onscreen then I'm happy. Pacing to me only comes into play when you have to get through the boring parts of a film quick enough that you as a filmmaker don't lose the audience's attention. Fortunately for me, I can't recall a scene in this film that didn't hold my interest on some level.

I think it is about the height of interest level. You could put anything in a film and it can hold your interest, but does that mean it matches the rest of the film? I don't think so. I mean if it all held your interest, why isn't it a perfect 10?

 

[kedrell]

I've never given ANY film in history a 10. To me, a 10 doesn't exist. It would be perfection and no film is perfect.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I just got back, and I've gotta say, this was my overall impression of the film as well. FotR was apparently longer, but this one felt MUCH longer to me. The were scenes I loved, and scenes that I completely lost interest in (and Jackson's taste for melodramatic slo-mo seems to have gotten worse over the years, which I did not think possible). There seemed to be more deus ex machina moments, too. Overall, I enjoyed the pieces much more than the whole.

And I hated the 48fps 3D, except during the big action sequences. If I see the movie again, it will be in regular ol' 2D.

The moments that got me were Bilbo and the ring. Too much emphasis there and the slow-mo just made it more obvious.

The other was of course the return of the Nag... I mean Azog vs. Thorin.

I've never given ANY film in history a 10. To me, a 10 doesn't exist. It would be perfection and no film is perfect.

Then why isn't it a 9.99999? If it all holds your interest of course. What is the difference between a 8.5 and a 9.5?

 

[kedrell]

What really impressed me was how much better all the integration of the actor's size FX was done. Beat the much more obviously choreographed Bag End scenes in FOTR by a country mile.

 

[MLSkinner]

Loved it. How some people didn't get all the clues that frodo and bilbo's conversation happened minutes before FOTR is beyond me. I loved the pacing, it never bogged down for me. The white council meeting was one of my favorite scenes in the movie. I don't see why this film is getting hate. It's like 2001 all over again for me...loved being back in middle earth and no one but peter jackson could've made these films. He was truly destined to bring tolkien's books to life. Love Harry's spot on review at aicn.

 

[DCW]

FotR was apparently longer, but this one felt MUCH longer to me. The were scenes I loved, and scenes that I completely lost interest in...Overall, I enjoyed the pieces much more than the whole.

Just got back and I've got to agree with this completely.

As many have stated Gandalf, Thorin, and Bilbo were all fantastic. The music was excellent. Gollum looked amazing, loved that whole riddles in the dark scene. I loved parts of the movie but one the whole I thought it was bloated and overly long. The movie felt incredibly long to me. I also really wasn't feeling the CGI in some scenes. Overall I left the theater disapointed.

I'm curious to see this a second time to see if my opinion changes about it, I'm hoping it does because I love the book and the whole series.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Loved it. How some people didn't get all the clues that frodo and bilbo's conversation happened minutes before FOTR is beyond me. I loved the pacing, it never bogged down for me. The white council meeting was one of my favorite scenes in the movie. I don't see why this film is getting hate. It's like 2001 all over again for me...loved being back in middle earth and no one but peter jackson could've made these films. He was truly destined to bring tolkien's books to life. Love Harry's spot on review at aicn.

Are there a lot of people who didn't get this? I am more of the opinion, and I think others are as well, is that it just shouldn't be in the film. Does absolutely nothing but add runtime.