Days of Future Past Should DOFP be used to reboot the X-Men franchise?

[psylockolussus]

Here's a simpler way to break this down:

You want Fox to ignore the success story of The Avengers franchise, ditch the young cast and make another "OT cast" X film that will make half a billion at best.

Fox wants to adopt the Marvel/Disney model of smaller films that lead to bigger films. They're gonna gross 400 Million on these smaller films and aim for the billion with the bigger films.

I already posted a response for that:

Why continue to gross half a billion on X-Men movies when you can gross a billion?

And as if spin-offs like First Class 3, X-Force can gross a billion? And read my post again, I said at least 1.5 billion with 3 OT films.

Obviously you think a cross-over film featuring the OT cast/X-Force/First Class and other spin-offs will help this franchise to join the billion dollar box-office club.

The way I see it, people's interest to the franchise will go down again when Fox starts releasing another Wolverine movie, First Class movie and new spin-offs. Then the hype for a X-Men movie will rise up again when the OT cast comes back for another movie, but you see its like a roller-coaster and that would hinder this franchise's potential for grossing over 1 billion per film.

Instead of following MCU's model, Fox could at least look at the success of the Fast/Furious franchise and learn something from it.

 

[Naji Assan]

I already posted a response for that:

Your response was 3 "OT Cast" movies = 1.5 Billion.

I'm saying 1 non-OT X-Men movie with years of lead-in films behind it = 1 Billion.

You follow?

 

[psylockolussus]

But it was. It was the first in the Fox shared universe.

Paramount/Marvel didn't promote Iron Man as an Avengers lead-in either. Too early. But The Incredible Hulk? Tony's scene was in the TV spots.

Trank's Fantastic Four movie will probably have an X-Men presence to get things rolling.

What you don't get is being a "lead-in movie" is not enough to convince the mainstream audience to watch a movie.

Most people watched The Wolverine because of Wolverine, not because of the mid-credits scene, most people who saw The Wolverine didn't even know about DOFP.

Yes its good that they are making movies leading to a bigger movie that would appeal to more viewers. But for films like X-Force, Deadpool, X-Factor and First Class 3, big box-office revenue is not guaranteed compare to a film that will feature the OT cast again.

Now if a spin-off like X-Force bombed at the box-office and failed the expectations of Fox's executives, that would hurt the future films.

And who says, they can't do a lead-in for something big featuring the OT cast. If I'm the head of Fox, I would bring back the OT cast for a 5th film, make Mr. Sinister as the lead villain and tease Apocalypse for the next BIG X-Men movie.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Some are convently forgetting Fox Is now limited to how much they can promate
the X-Men films thanks to Disney.

I agree DOFP Is answer to avengers and based on rumored ending we are likely
get a trek 2009 situation but I disagree on them adopting the DIsney/MS route with so called phases.We aren't going to start getting 2 films a year.

Best to avoid discussing FF reboot before X-Men board turns into antiFox
board like the FF board.

Besides the main X-Men films,which are likely to be set In past,we may be getting another wolverine,X-Force,Possibly Deadpool,and possibly maybe ever the New Mutants but not every X properity Is going to be turned Into film like
DIsney/MS Is doing.

If all the money spent on DOFP pays off on Fox then maybe X-Force and
WOlverine film set up a event In FC3.Maybe APocalypse but future films could also follow the wolverine model of modest budget

The biggest problem for sucess of X-Men films Is Disney doing all It can to hurt the X-Men brand.Why else do you think last X-Men films with merchandize was origins?The last X-Men film made prior to disney buying marvel.

Fox doesn't have luxry to make films with no apparent connection to X-Men that GA Is aware of.

 

[Naji Assan]

Now if a spin-off like X-Force bombed at the box-office and failed the expectations of Fox's executives, that would hurt the future films.

No, all it would do is eliminate the possibility of an X-Force 2. It would have zero impact on the next team film. Right now Marvel/Disney are doing that with Guardians of The Galaxy. Even if it bombs, it serves the purpose of providing further info on Thanos and the Infinity Gems hence enhancing the hype for Avengers Age of Ultron.

A lead-in costs less and is expected to make less. If it makes money it gets sequels in further Phases (Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, The Wolverine). If it makes no money it gets no sequels (Incredible Hulk).

 

[psylockolussus]

Hmm merchandise like toys, videogames would be great but just because they don't have them, it doesn't mean they're somewhat doomed in the marketing aspect.

In my opinion, they need to work on in their most appealing characters. After DOFP, we could have a X-Men 5 movie, where mutants like Rogue, Storm, Cyclops are a lot stronger and since they won't share the screentime with the FC cast, maybe they would finally give them more screentime and character development.

Instead of reintroducing these characters in the 70s, they could just move with the OT cast and make improvements.

 

[psylockolussus]

No, all it would do is eliminate the possibility of an X-Force 2. It would have zero impact on the next team film. Right now Marvel/Disney are doing that with Guardians of The Galaxy. Even if it bombs, it serves the purpose of providing further info on Thanos and the Infinity Gems hence enhancing the hype for Avengers Age of Ultron.

A lead-in costs less and is expected to make less. If it makes money it gets sequels in further Phases (Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, The Wolverine). If it makes no money it gets no sequels (Incredible Hulk).

Hmmm you seem to forget that this is Fox and not Disney/Marvel Studios (a studio that has a 3 to5 years plan and follows it).

Fox is not consistent with their plan, we don't even know if they have a plan. And given their track record, if they are disappointed with a film, it will spell doom for future movies. Elektra bombed in 2005, now what happened to Daredevil 2? Fox weren't happy with the box-office earnings of FF2, what happened to the Silver Surfer spin-off? A big failure of a X-Men spin-off could hurt the series. Don't wait for it to happen.

 

[Naji Assan]

Hmmm you seem to forget that this is Fox and not Disney/Marvel Studios (a studio that has a 3 to5 years plan and follows it).

Fox is not consistent with their plan, we don't even know if they have a plan. And given their track record, if they are disappointed with a film, it will spell doom for future movies. Elektra bombed in 2005, now what happened to Daredevil 2? Fox weren't happy with the box-office earnings of FF2, what happened to the Silver Surfer spin-off? A big failure of a X-Men spin-off could hurt the series. Don't wait for it to happen.

Everything you're citing is pre-Avengers. Avengers is the reason all of this happening. Same with Sony and Sinister Six and Warner Bros. with Justice League.

You're in denial regarding the impact Avengers had on the film industry. 3 "OT cast" movies making 1.5 Billion is chump change today. It meant something ten years ago. Nothing today. The studios want Avengers numbers. A series of less expensive lead-in films culminate in one big summer blockbuster every three years.

 

[psylockolussus]

Everything you're citing is pre-Avengers. Avengers is the reason all of this happening. Same with Sony and Sinister Six and Warner Bros. with Justice League.

You're in denial regarding the impact Avengers had on the film industry. 3 "OT cast" movies making 1.5 Billion is chump change today. It meant something ten years ago. Nothing today. The studios want Avengers numbers. A series of less expensive lead-in films culminate in one big summer blockbuster every three years.

I'm not in denial of anything. If there's someone is in denial that is you. Because you just disregarded everything that happened pre-Avengers.

I already said earlier, the worldwide gross of First Class is probably underwhelming for Fox and when Avengers went big in 2012. They probably realized that their X-Men franchise need to step up their game and what did they do to achieve that??? They brought back the OT cast and suddenly the hype for an upcoming X-Men became strong.

And if FOX really want to get more than 1 billion per film, they aren't gonna get it by releasing "lead-in" films like X-Force, Deadpool, X-Factor, New Mutants, that will probably gross under than 300 million.

And could you please answer this:

Do you think this franchise would be in a bigger shape right now if we aren't getting the OT cast next year?

 

[Naji Assan]

And if FOX really want to get more than 1 billion per film, they aren't gonna get it by releasing "lead-in" films like X-Force, Deadpool, X-Factor, New Mutants, that will probably gross under than 300 million.

So why is it working for Marvel/Disney?

 

[psylockolussus]

Because Marvel/Disney aren't Fox and their characters/superheroes are so distinct from one another and Iron Man/Hulk/Captain America/Thor didn't come across as spin-offs of the Avengers when their 1st films were released in theaters. They were own identity 1st, being Avengers is just 2nd.

But X-Force, Deadpool, New Mutants, X-Factor, First Class 3 - they are all mutants just like the core X-Men.

Obviously I have to repeat this again and again.

 

[Naji Assan]

didn't come across as spin-offs of the Avengers when their 1st films were released in theaters

Have you seen Captain America The First Avenger?

Aside from that, why is it a problem for a movie like X-Force to have an obvious connection to X-Men? That's the whole point. For audiences to check it out knowing its a building block to the next X-Men movie.

And how do you explain the many successful non-X-Men mutant-based titles in the comics?

I don't even understand how you can't see this. Its like you're choosing to ignore everything Marvel/Disney have done with D-list characters. You think all the non-OT cast Fox properties will fail. That's fine. I'm just glad they're not listening to you. I can't wait to see Trank's FF, X-Force, Wolverine III and whatever comes next.

 

[psylockolussus]

Have you seen Captain America The First Avenger?

So are you saying Captain America is a spin-off of the Avengers I saw the film and its definitely not a spin-off to the Avengers, especially it came out first.

Aside from that, why is it problem for a movie like X-Force to have an obvious connection to X-Men? That's the whole point. For audiences to check it out knowing its a building block to the next X-Men movie. And how do you explain the many successful non-X-Men mutant-based titles in the comics?

X-Force is gonna appear like light X-Men or just another mutant team with a different name. I'm pretty sure it won't expand the interest to franchise especially there's few spin-off films that managed to outgross the original series. XWO, FC and TW didn't outgross X1/X2/X3 (adjusted numbers) in the US.

I'm sure casual viewers would want to get a straight-up sequel to DOFp rather than a X-Force film that will require more introduction to the lead characters.

And once again, not that I need to repeat myself again. COMICS AND MOVIES ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. It wouldn't take 1 Million dollars for Marvel Comics to release a new spin-off comic-book every year.

I don't even understand how you can't see this. Its like you're choosing to ignore everything Marvel/Disney have done with D-list characters. You think all the non-OT cast Fox properties will fail. That's fine. I'm just glad they're not listening to you. I can't wait to see Trank's FF, X-Force, Wolverine III and whatever comes next.

Again, you are acting like Fox and Disney are the same studio and they aren't. Fox has more failures than Disney/Marvel Studios. You also keep ignoring the fact that this franchise already declined at the box-office with releasing spin-offs/movies that didn't feature the OT cast. Thats not automatically gonna change even if all spin-off films will act as a "lead in" movie for a bigger movie.

And I'm up for a Fantastic Four/X-Men cross-over-film.

 

[psylockolussus]

Everything you're citing is pre-Avengers. Avengers is the reason all of this happening. Same with Sony and Sinister Six and Warner Bros. with Justice League.

And again like I said earlier, Fox could have lead-in movies featuring the OT cast. They could have 1 movie featuring Mr. Sinister and tease Apocalypse in the next movie. Like what Sony is doing with Green Goblin. They don't have to release a spin-off film just to do that. Actually you're being close-minded, if you think the way to do this is to copy the model of "MCU".

And as for more cross-over films, I'm definitely up for a cross-over film with the Fantastic Four.

And Naji Assan, I still didn't get an answer for this question:

Do you think this franchise would be in a bigger shape right now if we aren't getting the OT cast next year?

Obviously you can't say a word to that.

 

[magneto23]

Do you think this franchise would be in a bigger shape right now if we aren't getting the OT cast next year?

Obviously you can't say a word to that.

"bigger shape"??? When you are combining casts for a DOFP story that's as "big" as it gets for RIGHT NOW. The franchise could without question BUILD UP TO something as "big" without the OT cast but it would obviously take a few years.

 

[psylockolussus]

I meant better shape.

 

[kasjan]

Wolverine isn't the one who remember old timeline, if Xavier read his mind in 1973.

If you want movies in present time, then for sure you have to go with OT cast.
If you want 80's, only Hoult and Lawrence doesn't make problem, because they're in makeup almost alltime in movie. Fassbender and McAvoy would need good makeup, to look 55yo, like younger McKellen and Stewart. Teenage Storm, Jean and Cyclops isn't problem, also add Gambit to this movie. Sinister should clone Gambit, and we would have Gambit in future with Rogue. When he would leave Marauders and join X-Men.

 

[Mr.M]

If Logan forgets the OT timeline (and his 1973 mind returns from the future), then he may never meet the original X-Men. But once his mind comes back to the future,

Spoiler

how then does he wake up in the middle of the X-Mansion in 2023 with the OT X-Men, potentially never having met the X-Men?

That would mean 1973 Logan may have stayed on with the FC X-Men in some capacity after he makes the appropriate changes in the past. Does that mean he can never link up with Stryker or Weapons X again? Does that mean he never gets the adamantium put back on again? No. But Wolverine may very well be an X-Men from 1973 on, despite not remembering the OT timeline. He may have always been an X-Men in that time.

 

[Naji Assan]

If Logan forgets the OT timeline (and his 1973 mind returns from the future), then he may never meet the original X-Men. But once his mind comes back to the future,

Spoiler

how then does he wake up in the middle of the X-Mansion in 2023 with the OT X-Men, potentially never having met the X-Men?

That would mean 1973 Logan may have stayed on with the FC X-Men in some capacity after he makes the appropriate changes in the past. Does that mean he can never link up with Stryker or Weapons X again? Does that mean he never gets the adamantium put back on again? No. But Wolverine may very well be an X-Men from 1973 on, despite not remembering the OT timeline. He may have always been an X-Men in that time.

Exactly. Aside from allowing the franchise to start anew from 1973 forward, they've also made Wolverine an X-Man in 1973 which is great because come the next X-Men film we'll get that dream roster that could never happen in the first three films: bald McAvoy Xavier, Wolverine, young Cyclops leading the squad, young Jean, young Storm, Hoult Beast and possibly Gambit. Maybe they'll even bring a young Nightcrawler into the picture because why not? The first three films will no longer dictate continuity.

 

[Angamb]

that team is nowhere as good as OT team, that basically had EVERYONE, except Gambit.

older Wolverine and teen Cyclops, Jean and co. is not as cool, it would be like Wolverine and The X-Men comic, where he is the teacher of the X-Men. Not as appealing as older Cyclops, Storm, Beast, Nightcrawler, Rogue, Kitty and co.

 

[Naji Assan]

that team is nowhere as good as OT team, that basically had EVERYONE, except Gambit.

older Wolverine and teen Cyclops, Jean and co. is not as cool, it would be like Wolverine and The X-Men comic, where he is the teacher of the X-Men. Not as appealing as older Cyclops, Storm, Beast, Nightcrawler, Rogue, Kitty and co.

No, it would be the Claremont X-Men which is arguably the best squad in the comics. Cyclops would be a man in his prime leading the team, not a teenager. Same thing goes with Jean and Storm.

Rogue didn't come in 'til later anyway. The only people you can't really bring in because of continuity issues in that they haven't been born yet are Angel, Rogue and Kitty. Everyone else can meet the X-Men earlier in the new timeline, even Colossus who's age was never specified in the earlier films.

 

[marvelrobbins]

With reports of addational filming best to wait till we actully see DOFP before
making judgements on future of films.

I am against rebooting films especilly since DOFP could be huge box office
success.

Some act like the OT cast Is all over the hill.With exception of Patrick Stewert and Ian Mckellen,who neither Is exactly invalids with their broadway shows,are all young enough to continue.Tom Cruise Is 51 yet will be doing another MI
film.Arnold Sch may be playing terminator again at 60.at 70 harrison ford may be
playing Han Solo again.

 

[Mr.M]

Exactly. Aside from allowing the franchise to start anew from 1973 forward, they've also made Wolverine an X-Man in 1973 which is great because come the next X-Men film we'll get that dream roster that could never happen in the first three films: bald McAvoy Xavier, Wolverine, young Cyclops leading the squad, young Jean, young Storm, Hoult Beast and possibly Gambit. Maybe they'll even bring a young Nightcrawler into the picture because why not? The first three films will no longer dictate continuity.

Yes, but this would be invalidated if:

Spoiler

he has no memories of Jean, Scott, Storm once he wakes up, and all his memories of the X-Men are within or before 1973

I can't imagine that will be the case however.

With reports of addational filming best to wait till we actully see DOFP before
making judgements on future of films.

I am against rebooting films especilly since DOFP could be huge box office
success.

Some act like the OT cast Is all over the hill.With exception of Patrick Stewert and Ian Mckellen,who neither Is exactly invalids with their broadway shows,are all young enough to continue.Tom Cruise Is 51 yet will be doing another MI
film.Arnold Sch may be playing terminator again at 60.at 70 harrison ford may be
playing Han Solo again.

Reshoots don't mean anything in terms of a total overhaul of the ending. Nothing to indicate they are setting up AoA or future threads, but don't suddenly flip flop and say they are bringing back the OT cast because of this. I am not saying it is completely out of the realm of possibilities, but reshoots mean nothing in that regard... unless we have confirmations that Marsden, Famke, and Halle are shooting together. Then you may have something there. But all we know right now is Cudmore.

 

[marvelrobbins]

They might not be changing the ending at all.The press reports say addational scenes.

They may be filming added scenes not changing anything.

As scripted the ending of X2 was supose to be X-Men meeting with president and aftermath.The post white house stuff at mansion and Wrath of khan like hinting at jean's return were all added scenes for that film.

All we know Is they are doing 2 weeks of addational filming.What that means no one
knows.

 

[psylockolussus]

Exactly. Aside from allowing the franchise to start anew from 1973 forward, they've also made Wolverine an X-Man in 1973 which is great because come the next X-Men film we'll get that dream roster that could never happen in the first three films: bald McAvoy Xavier, Wolverine, young Cyclops leading the squad, young Jean, young Storm, Hoult Beast and possibly Gambit. Maybe they'll even bring a young Nightcrawler into the picture because why not? The first three films will no longer dictate continuity.

You still haven't answered my question.