The Dark Knight So now that we have more info, what do you think of the Joker?

[The Sage]

How can anyone honestly not rate this atleast a 7? He seems brilliant? mI said earlier I don't like the applied make-up, but still I gave him a 9. How can anyone hate something that they know so little about that much? You haters haven't even seen him in action.

I was gonna go for a 7, but the description of 8 sounded closer to what I was thinking.

 

[The Dark Guybrush]

to have the joker's face or entire body be permanently bleached white would be kinda stupid. any chemical or solution strong enough to actually HAVE that affect on a person would most likely make them unable to grow HAIR, let alone have a pleasantly smooth skin texture/complexion. we'd end up having to watch 2 hours and 20 minutes of a bumpy, bald, ronald mcdonald wig wearing joker. DO NOT WANT.

 

[Mister J]

to have the joker's face or entire body be permanently bleached white would be kinda stupid. any chemical or solution strong enough to actually HAVE that affect on a person would most likely make them unable to grow HAIR, let alone have a pleasantly smooth skin texture/complexion. we'd end up having to watch 2 hours and 20 minutes of a bumpy, bald, ronald mcdonald wig wearing joker. DO NOT WANT.

You do realize there's this whole 'suspension of disbelief' deal that's applicable to comic based properties, right? Maybe Nolan should have the police find and unmask Batman and then toss his ass in jail, because that's probably what would happen in reality.

 

[sglass03]

to have the joker's face or entire body be permanently bleached white would be kinda stupid. any chemical or solution strong enough to actually HAVE that affect on a person would most likely make them unable to grow HAIR, let alone have a pleasantly smooth skin texture/complexion. we'd end up having to watch 2 hours and 20 minutes of a bumpy, bald, ronald mcdonald wig wearing joker. DO NOT WANT.

I'm sure we can suspend our disbelief for a two-hour film based on a comic book character regarding that. Yes, if Nolan was going for COMPLETE realism, we'd have a scarred, ugly, bumpy-looking Joker who probably couldn't even walk. Then again, we also wouldn't have a guy dressing up like a bat to fight crime, no matter how justified it is. This is still a comic-book film, and seeing as how Joker is all-white in the comics, I don't see any problem with him being all-white in the movie.

 

[Tomar-Re]

You do realize there's this whole 'suspension of belief' deal that's usually applicable to comic based properties, right? Maybe Nolan should have the police find and unmask Batman and then toss his ass in jail, because that's probably what would happen in reality.

easy now.. Nolan has stated that he wants to maintain a certain level of realism when his characters, especially the villians.

 

[Juanigi]

then have faith in the rumor that he'll be revealed to be completely bleached and don't worry until it's (dis?)proven in a year

 

[The Dark Guybrush]

You do realize there's this whole 'suspension of belief' deal that's usually applicable to comic based properties, right? Maybe Nolan should have the police find and unmask Batman and then toss his ass in jail, because that's probably what would happen in reality.

dude.. there's "suspension of disbelief", and there's "just plain ******o-ridiculous".

Nolan has said from the very beginning that he's going to make these movies feel, at the very least, somewhat "real", as in- somewhat believable.

maybe he'll level the playing field between the "realists" & the "suspenders" by having metal plate-armor grow around the bat-pod when batman talks into his watch..

 

[hegele]

I've posted this on another thread but I'll post it here too. Its how I think the Joker might pan out in Nolan's World.

stage one: The Joker is a criminal who leaves cards and wears clown masks with his crew. During a bank robbery, the batman somehow lashes his face.

stage two: The deformation left him with a sadistic sense of humor. A year or so later he reemerges dressed and painted like a clown. He becomes obsessed with hysteria and anarchy in Gotham, he also becomes incredibly interested in the batman, all this with a sense of humor that his goons don't even get. Somehow at the end of The Dark Knight, around the same time Harvey Dent is scarred, the batman brawls with him and ends up throwing in chlorine or chemicals. Batman barely escapes. Gordan says something to batman along the lines of "before- the crime in this city could be bought, it was part of an organization you helped bring down.... They are all dead. Now Gotham is left with maniacs. Men that the cops can't understand... but they think you do. They believe you can... and you only made them bleed." The End.

stage three: The Joker makes his return in the third Nolan Batman film. Now completely pale head to toe, his red lipstick stained only around his lips and faintly around his gash, the dark around his eyes diffused a bit but permanent, the bleached green hair, also permanent. His white face, now scarred, looks grayish. He becomes more obsessed with the batman and has little recollection of his life before the dark knight entered Gotham.

This would leave the hype around what the Joker would look like in the third equal or greater to the hype he holds now. Fun times.

 

[The Dark Guybrush]

I'm sure we can suspend our disbelief for a two-hour film based on a comic book character regarding that. Yes, if Nolan was going for COMPLETE realism, we'd have a scarred, ugly, bumpy-looking Joker who probably couldn't even walk. Then again, we also wouldn't have a guy dressing up like a bat to fight crime, no matter how justified it is. This is still a comic-book film, and seeing as how Joker is all-white in the comics, I don't see any problem with him being all-white in the movie.

I don't see any problem with focusing more on the actor's portrayal of the character than the fact that OMG you mean he has to.. put the white on... . manually?!

 

[Crook]

I don't see any problem with focusing more on the actor's portrayal of the character than the fact that OMG you mean he has to.. put the white on... . manually?!

You kinda just proved why adding that detail in, was pointless in the first place.

 

[Spade]

I voted a 9. I feel that he isn't perfect, as I don't feel that there can ever be a true perfect portrayl of any character with this much history and takes, but I really like this psychological take on him. If some people hate it, then they hate it. It really is that simple for me- at least the poll is more than 72% positive as it stands.

 

[Tomar-Re]

I've posted this on another thread but I'll post it here too. Its how I think the Joker might pan out in Nolan's World.

stage one: The Joker is a criminal who leaves cards and wears clown masks with his crew. During a bank robbery, the batman somehow lashes his face.

stage two: The deformation left him with a sadistic sense of humor. A year or so later he reemerges dressed and painted like a clown. He becomes obsessed with hysteria and anarchy in Gotham, he also becomes incredibly interested in the batman, all this with a sense of humor that his goons don't even get. Somehow at the end of The Dark Knight, around the same time Harvey Dent is scarred, the batman brawls with him and ends up throwing in chlorine or chemicals. Batman barely escapes. Gordan says something to batman along the lines of "before- the crime in this city could be bought, it was part of an organization you helped bring down.... They are all dead. Now Gotham is left with maniacs. Men that the cops can't understand... but they think you do. They believe you can... and you only made them bleed." The End.

stage three: The Joker makes his return in the third Nolan Batman film. Now completely pale head to toe, his red lipstick stained only around his lips and faintly around his gash, the dark around his eyes diffused a bit but permanent, the bleached green hair, also permanent. His white face, now scarred, looks grayish. He becomes more obsessed with the batman and has little recollection of his life before the dark knight entered Gotham.

This would leave the hype around what the Joker would look like in the third equal or greater to the hype he holds now. Fun times.

I agree, kind of..

I believe Joker has a strong enough storyline to carry over to a third film. I would love to see this character develope throughout TDK and then climax somewhere near the middle-to-end of the 3rd film.

 

[The Dark Guybrush]

You kinda just proved why adding that detail in, was pointless in the first place.

Um, no. Head in butt syndrome.

 

[Spade]

Is change in these characters really so surprising when even Batman's suit is a departure from the comic book norm?

 

[The Dark Guybrush]

one would think it wouldn't be such a huge deal. i mean, the joker's not white in this film, naturally. i mean, he IS, because heath ledger is caucasian, but he's not SHOCK white. the realistic thing to do would be to have the character apply shock white makeup to his peachy skin.

 

[sglass03]

You kinda just proved why adding that detail in, was pointless in the first place.

I agree. Having to explain he puts on makeup because he has some sort of "clown complex" is much more mundane than having him be the victim of some horrendous past event. Speculation is one of the best parts of a mystery - why not let the audience (and the other characters) speculate on why Joker looks the way he does?

Endless explanation and justification saps the life out of things. The reason the Batman-Joker dynamic has worked so well in the comics is that, besides "The Killing Joke," the Joker has had no definable origin for near 70 years. Even his first appearance in Batman #1 (described as having a profound influence on Nolan for "TDK") doesn't even hint or whiff at any kind of origin, nor ever tries to explain why his skin is white. The Joker simply arrives and wreaks havoc - the rest is left a delicious mystery.

 

[sglass03]

This argument may be moot, anyway...if what Anjow/Miranda says is true (and I have no reason not to trust them), then we'll be getting an all-white Joker, whether we like it or not.

 

[Spade]

I can understand some of the "outrage" on the level that it's a change to a longstanding character, but some of the claims that this is horrible or that people won't go see this film are just stupid- and no, I can't find a more decent phrase for it. It's completely illogical to make such a fuss over this. None of us know even the slightest thing about how Ledger's performance is yet outside of two lines of dialogue. While we don't have a lot of info to go by, it's silly to just cite change as the #1 source of ire.

 

[Tomar-Re]

I agree. Having to explain he puts on makeup because he has some sort of "clown complex" is much more mundane than having him be the victim of some horrendous past event. Speculation is one of the best parts of a mystery - why not let the audience (and the other characters) speculate on why Joker looks the way he does?

Endless explanation and justification saps the life out of things. The reason the Batman-Joker dynamic has worked so well in the comics is that, besides "The Killing Joke," the Joker has had no definable origin for near 70 years. Even his first appearance in Batman #1 (described as having a profound influence on Nolan for "TDK") doesn't even hint or whiff at any kind of origin, nor ever tries to explain why his skin is white. The Joker simply arrives and wreaks havoc - the rest is left a delicious mystery.

touche

 

[Mr. Socko]

Miranda said we'd get an all white Joker and the owner of BoF stated TDK would not be at comic-con..................



Anyway, so far, the characterization of the Joker is spot on.

 

[Spade]

Jack's Joker was hailed for some time, yet Burton went into detail as to who he was and how he became the Joker. Now this film gives the fans the chaotic actions that propel Batman and the Joker into conflict without an origin holding back either portrayl...and they complain. This fanbase could quite possibly be the most confusing of the comic book fanbases.

 

[The Dark Guybrush]

I agree. Having to explain he puts on makeup because he has some sort of "clown complex" is much more mundane than having him be the victim of some horrendous past event. Speculation is one of the best parts of a mystery - why not let the audience (and the other characters) speculate on why Joker looks the way he does?

Endless explanation and justification saps the life out of things. The reason the Batman-Joker dynamic has worked so well in the comics is that, besides "The Killing Joke," the Joker has had no definable origin for near 70 years. Even his first appearance in Batman #1 (described as having a profound influence on Nolan for "TDK") doesn't even hint or whiff at any kind of origin, nor ever tries to explain why his skin is white. The Joker simply arrives and wreaks havoc - the rest is left a delicious mystery.

well, i'm sorry. i feel differently about this.
BUT, that's what makes these threads go on for more than 2 pages.. disagreeing to agree!!

i don't think they're trying to justify anything by keeping the joker flesh-toned. i think they're trying to show you that the character is so off his rocker that he willingly paints his face and acts on whatever psychotic whim floats through his skull, and i personally find this to be more frightening than having the character just.. be white, always.

 

[1981]

Jack's Joker was hailed for some time, yet Burton went into detail as to who he was and how he became the Joker. Now this film gives the fans the chaotic actions that propel Batman and the Joker into conflict without an origin holding back either portrayl...and they complain. This fanbase could quite possibly be the most confusing of the comic book fanbases.

Yeah.... obviously you don't read Batman and haven't entered this message board until ohhhhh, probably today. Please go back to the Ironman or Hulk message boards. Thanks bunches.

 

[Mister J]

easy now.. Nolan has stated that he wants to maintain a certain level of realism when his characters, especially the villians.

dude.. there's "suspension of disbelief", and there's "just plain ******o-ridiculous".

Nolan has said from the very beginning that he's going to make these movies feel, at the very least, somewhat "real", as in- somewhat believable.

maybe he'll level the playing field between the "realists" & the "suspenders" by having metal plate-armor grow around the bat-pod when batman talks into his watch..

We've had

• a guy misappropriating military-created equipment in order to wage a vigilante's war on crime, in which he dresses like a flying mammal
• the police's inability to apprehend this vigilante
• a vehicular tank that practically flies across rooftops
• a centuries old cabal of terrorists, responsible for corrective disasters for perceived corrupt civilizations
• a created fear toxin that causes instantaneous mass hallucination and hysteria
• a microwave emitter that vaporizes a water supply, yet doesn't create resulting steam that would scald the skin
• and we're likely to see a dormant (or at least recessive) personality become dominant in a man when accompanying by the physical trauma of being scarred by acid

and you want to draw the line at the inherent realism of unknown chemicals on physical appearance, especially when its such a readily identifiable part of the character? Part of the enjoyment in this medium is things that aren't wholly realistic or don't fully make sense. It's part of the allure. Things can be grounded to an extent, but the bounds of reality need to be pushed in some instances.

 

[Spade]

Yeah.... obviously you don't read Batman and haven't entered this message board until ohhhhh, probably today. Please go back to the Ironman or Hulk message boards. Thanks bunches.

I've been here for months and have been in the boards you mentioned for even less time, so I won't be going anyplace. Thanks bunches.