Star Trek Beyond - Part 3

[ehh]

I agree with the all of your post but the bolded does stick out. When Beyond came out people said it felt like an episode of the series and used it as a positive. I actually think it's the movies biggest flaw. It does feel like a TV episode rather than a big budget blockbuster at times. There are spectacular sequences don't get me wrong, but it didn't feel as grand as the first 2 movies.

As stated I do let it and liked it even more upon re-watch. But I do think it's the weakest entry so far. I also agree with the notion that Lin, while he did a good job here, is not as good a director as Abrams.

For sure. Many fans applaud the film for being like an episode, but I agree with you: it's the biggest flaw. A movie should feel like a MOVIE and not an episode of a TV show that was screened in a theater.

Even with the big "action pieces," I just kept thinking about how much better everything would have been if Abrams stuck around.

Deadpool showed you can still make a big budget-looking blockbuster without actually have an enormous budget. What Star Trek needs are IDEAS and a strong script. You don't need tons of money for that. Just capable screenwriters.

I agree with that. Star Trek Beyond had a huge budget, but the writing and the story made the film feel very small. I'm still wondering where the buget went, because even the 2009 Star Trek film looks like it was made on a bigger budget.

This film was very much a standalone "episode" where STID had it's own story, but was also world building. Star Trek needs to expand the world, make it feel big like there is so much to explore. Star Wars is world building, and I think Star Trek could do that too.

 

[dark_b]

I do think Trek needs a fair sized budget though to do all of the space battles, etc required. I don't think it could be made for a Deadpool budget. But you never know, look at Serenity.

Its true that it couldnt be made for a deadpool budget.

I think it should be a very slow paced movie that gets from act 1 to 2 to 3 faster and more ''action packed''. With one big action scene at the end so that the fans can get a space ship battle. maybe some gun shooting on the ship and running through the corridors. The crash action scene in act 1 in ST Beyond was expensiveeeeeeeeeeeeee. and it was so detailed. yes we saw from all possible angles how the ship was attacked. Dear Lord how about saving some money?

 

[DyeLorean]

What I meant by bringing Deadpool to the discussion is that budget isn't the most crucial of elements when making a movie. Specially after watching Star Trek Beyond, which had a big budget, but the story wasn't big or interesting enough to support it.

 

[ehh]

The next film will probably have a more modest budget, maybe around $100-150M I'm guessing.

With the right director, you can make a film feel a lot bigger than the budget, and Deadpool is a really great example of that.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

For sure. Many fans applaud the film for being like an episode, but I agree with you: it's the biggest flaw. A movie should feel like a MOVIE and not an episode of a TV show that was screened in a theater.

Even with the big "action pieces," I just kept thinking about how much better everything would have been if Abrams stuck around.

I definitely think Abrams would have made the movie more bombastic than it was. And yeah it is definitely a major flaw of the movie that it feels like a TV episode. When you look at the budget being $185 million you do wonder where it went in some parts. Like the planet they get stranded on just feels to much like Earth, Abrams would have added things to it to make it feel more alien.

I had my expectations in check once Abrams left and Lin took over though and I was expecting Beyond to be poorer than it was. But yeah, it also wasn't as cinematic as it could have been.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Its true that it couldnt be made for a deadpool budget.

I think it should be a very slow paced movie that gets from act 1 to 2 to 3 faster and more ''action packed''. With one big action scene at the end so that the fans can get a space ship battle. maybe some gun shooting on the ship and running through the corridors. The crash action scene in act 1 in ST Beyond was expensiveeeeeeeeeeeeee. and it was so detailed. yes we saw from all possible angles how the ship was attacked. Dear Lord how about saving some money?

The destruction of the Enterprise was a spectacular sequence, probably the best in the movie. The problem is all of the action that follows can't compare to it so the rest of the movies action pieces can't match it. They needed to save the most exciting action sequence until last. The finale was poor compared to that sequence.

I also think they showed too much of the destruction scene in the trailers. But yeah, the movies still need a fairly high budget for such sequences.

 

[Gold Samurai]

The next film will probably have a more modest budget, maybe around $100-150M I'm guessing.

With the right director, you can make a film feel a lot bigger than the budget, and Deadpool is a really great example of that.

How about a TV series budget with movie level action? Is that even possible?


As an example.


A Star Trek Voyager episode(2 million) with big action scenes

 

[MadVillainy]

I think we need to all accept the fact that another sequel with Pine and co. is not happening. I didn't even realize how poorly Beyond did.
-It was the lowest grossing of the series, domestically and overseas
-It had the lowest RT and Metacritic score (not by much but still)
-It had the lowest CinemaScore

They'll make another ST movie, but I really doubt they will with another with this cast.
Everyone keeps saying "Oh the budget will just be lower" but unless all the cast and crew take a paycut I doubt that'll happen

Paramount did a lower budget sequel for GI Joe after the first one only made only a small profit. I think they may do it for this franchise also as I imagine they don't want to drop the franchise totally.

That's true I forgot about that.

However, they cast all new people. The thing about sequels is that the cast get paid more. I dont think Pine, Quinto, etc. will come back for less money.

OT: What the hell happened to the Joe film series? Probably are waiting for the Rock but they should just reboot imo

The problem is that the name Star Trek will forever have a huge nerd stigma attached to it, exponentially more than Star Wars or the Marvel/DC films. By now it's impossible to turn it into some popular action blockbuster franchise that they are trying to do. The Star Trek Discovery tv series that is in production is a wise move.Keep it for the fans only and make it good. The movies can keep coming, but don't expect them to make over 500m worldwide

Yeah it's weird. Even something like 09 that made it more cool and sexy didn't make that much money.
I do think the potential was there. STID made over 450 mill. I think the problem is that they waited too long for a sequel. Unless you make a bonafide cultural hit, I think it's bad to wait for 3 years for a sequel nowadays. People have short attention spans

 

[Schlosser85]

I said that exact thing in my review, that Beyond felt like a glorified episode of the OS.

 

[ehh]

This thread is making me sad.

 

[Teelie]

Yeah I don't think Lin's knowledge was leaps and bounds over JJ's. Lin grew up as a fan and was appreciative of the series, but I him getting "IT" more is slightly exaggerated.

And here we see the problem. Lin's not getting the nebulous "it" because "it" is subjective and different for every fan. Lin's Trek is not necessarily your Trek. His version is just as valid as yours or Abrams or mine or whoever else actually enjoys Star Trek but does not need to feel there is only one way to get "it."

The problem with Beyond is not merely whether Lin had "it" right or whether his interpetation was broad enough in appeal. It also was poorly marketed, was plagued with the usual behind the scenes shenannigans and Trek is a solid but not outstanding performer in the movie market. So expecting it to do huge money is always lining it up for failure. Star Trek is never going to be Star Wars in the theater but it wasn't intended to be either. They tried to put too much on this movie, just as they did the previous one. Any sequel they should do ought to remember that Star Trek is not going to generate a billion dollars and should be smaller budgeted but not thrown to the wolves and ignored either in marketing it.

 

[Octoberist]

Hmmmmmmm!

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I think we need to all accept the fact that another sequel with Pine and co. is not happening. I didn't even realize how poorly Beyond did.
-It was the lowest grossing of the series, domestically and overseas
-It had the lowest RT and Metacritic score (not by much but still)
-It had the lowest CinemaScore

They'll make another ST movie, but I really doubt they will with another with this cast.
Everyone keeps saying "Oh the budget will just be lower" but unless all the cast and crew take a paycut I doubt that'll happen



That's true I forgot about that.

However, they cast all new people. The thing about sequels is that the cast get paid more. I dont think Pine, Quinto, etc. will come back for less money.

OT: What the hell happened to the Joe film series? Probably are waiting for the Rock but they should just reboot imo


Yeah it's weird. Even something like 09 that made it more cool and sexy didn't make that much money.
I do think the potential was there. STID made over 450 mill. I think the problem is that they waited too long for a sequel. Unless you make a bonafide cultural hit, I think it's bad to wait for 3 years for a sequel nowadays. People have short attention spans

Quinto, Urban and Cho aren't exactly in demand, I think they would come back. As would Sofia Boutella. Pine and Saldana may be a problem getting back though. I think Pegg would come back as a fan and maybe even script again.

I am not saying a sequel will definitely happen, but I haven't given up hope on it yet. It's not like Paramount has lots of franchises to choose from.

Last I heard about GI Joe they are getting a crossover with Transformers at some point.

I said that exact thing in my review, that Beyond felt like a glorified episode of the OS.

I think a fair few, but many used it as a positive, I don't think it was.

And here we see the problem. Lin's not getting the nebulous "it" because "it" is subjective and different for every fan. Lin's Trek is not necessarily your Trek. His version is just as valid as yours or Abrams or mine or whoever else actually enjoys Star Trek but does not need to feel there is only one way to get "it."

The problem with Beyond is not merely whether Lin had "it" right or whether his interpetation was broad enough in appeal. It also was poorly marketed, was plagued with the usual behind the scenes shenannigans and Trek is a solid but not outstanding performer in the movie market. So expecting it to do huge money is always lining it up for failure. Star Trek is never going to be Star Wars in the theater but it wasn't intended to be either. They tried to put too much on this movie, just as they did the previous one. Any sequel they should do ought to remember that Star Trek is not going to generate a billion dollars and should be smaller budgeted but not thrown to the wolves and ignored either in marketing it.

Beyond was marketed poorly, if they do a sequel they definitely need to market it a lot more than they did Beyond. Paramount obviously thought name recognition would go a long way.

 

[MadVillainy]

Quinto, Urban and Cho aren't exactly in demand, I think they would come back. As would Sofia Boutella. Pine and Saldana may be a problem getting back though. I think Pegg would come back as a fan and maybe even script again.

I am not saying a sequel will definitely happen, but I haven't given up hope on it yet. It's not like Paramount has lots of franchises to choose from.

Last I heard about GI Joe they are getting a crossover with Transformers at some point.

Just because they arent in high demand like a Pratt or Fassbender doesn't mean they are willing to get paid less than they're worth. Theyve done 3 films and have earned the inevitable pay bump.
None of them need Star Trek.

And to the bolded I don't get when people say stuff like this. People tried to say the same thing about the new Ghostbusters. No studio is going to make a direct sequel to a movie franchise that isn't making them money. It doesn't matter how desperate they are.

 

[ehh]

We will definitely see more Star Trek on film in the future, I just don't know if it will be a sequel or reboot, or perhaps it will focus on a different crew on a different ship in the Kelvin timeline.

It also brings the possibility of returning to the original timeline someday. Just make it take place even further into the future and ignore the events of this trilogy. I think the Kelvin timeline would be forgotten about at that point.

 

[MadVillainy]

We will definitely see more Star Trek on film in the future, I just don't know if it will be a sequel or reboot, or perhaps it will focus on a different crew on a different ship in the Kelvin timeline.

It also brings the possibility of returning to the original timeline someday. Just make it take place even further into the future and ignore the events of this trilogy. I think the Kelvin timeline would be forgotten about at that point.

That's what I think would be best. And it doesn't have to be a TNG, DS9, etc. reboot.

Original characters, cast, ship would be cool

 

[ehh]

Theoretically, couldn't they focus on a different ship and crew in either the original or Kelvin timeline? It would make the fans happy if they went with the original and I don't think the general audience would care or know the difference.

 

[MadVillainy]

either is fine with me

 

[DyeLorean]

I bet they're using the term "soft reboot" in Paramount's offices.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I'd rather Abrams stayed away. His direction also affects the scripts and his vision for ST was things put in overdrive. As enjoyable as they got at times, they were oto broad and more of a surface level understanding of ST. Lin may not have as great an eye as Abrams, but he seemed to get what Trek was more.

I think Abrams showed his lack of excitement towards Trek in STID by how repetitive the sequences felt to 09'.

There were some great shots, cinematography, but he didn't really up the ante in terms of excitement. He just destroyed a bunch of buildings.

Lin's scale was smaller but the moments hit better cause it visually upped the ante from either of the two previous films.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Theoretically, couldn't they focus on a different ship and crew in either the original or Kelvin timeline? It would make the fans happy if they went with the original and I don't think the general audience would care or know the difference.

The biggest problem with Discovery is going back to the old timeline. It's like the franchise is at war with itself.

 

[Octoberist]

That is true.

 

[ehh]

In that case I really feel like if they decide to discontinue the current movie franchise (Pine, Urban, Pegg) in the Kelvin timeline, they should just go back to the original. Keep it consistent with ST: Discovery.

 

[Octoberist]

The reason for the conflict of interest is that CBS owns the TV rights to Trek, while Paramount owns the film rights. So it gets jumbled.

I think CBS handles most of the (physical) merch, or rather it's a complex matter, so that's why there was a lack of toys and statues for the Kelvin timeline. But Kelvin get the okay for comics and games.

Because of at the whole shared copyrights problems, it jaded JJ, and that's probably why he wasn't really into 'Darkness' (get it? haha)

I think Trek is more suited for TV though. I think that the new Kelvin timeline should be used for one more film just to cap it off. But if Beyond ends the Kelvin timeline, it ends on a good, hopeful note.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I watched half today, I fell asleep during the second hour, not because the movie was bad, I was very tired, but I enjoyed what I did see. Jaylah is awesome, the planet they landed on is vibrant and the action has been dynamic while the banter has been on point.